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Okay nice anecdote... how many times did he luck out where other people wouldn't have? How many time did 'socialist' government policies help him out where otherwise he would have been left high and dry?

Nah the actual statistics go completely against you... if you're born rich you're more likely to die rich, born poor more likely to die poor. Furthermore I'd argue that the reasons people can actually get up is because they're not really "self made" they either got a lucky break from someone or...

How much freedom does someone who's in poverty have?

TBQH I fear a society where we have individual freedom gone rampant and the sort of indirect harms which aren't as easily calculable (i.e. corporations carbon emitions ^___^) get to go unhindered. In your peaceful anarchy who is going to save us from a totalitarian?

I think we should have whatever government intervention is needed to ensure maximum freedom (i.e. I do not think a society is being most free where some members of society have much poorer access to health care/education etc). In the end I think we should be pragmatists and look at each...

We should arm all the kids likely to be bullied.

Sunshine, lolly pops ,and rainbows everything thats wonderful is what i feel when were together Brighter then a lucky penny when ur near the rainbows disapear here and i feel so fine... just to know that you are mine. My life is sunshine, lollypops, and rainbows thats how this refrain...

Hey yeah it's much better for us to have a complex, archaic, anachronism of a tax system instead of simplifying large parts of it with a GST.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryl9HoX5xco

But god has super powers.

lol

Yes I would, why wouldn't you? You think you have a mind which isn't capable of being fooled/deluded? Hillarious - Ever seen a magic trick? I try my best to understand the universe with the tools I have... I may be but a mere fool but I'm a mere fool that's trying his hardest. Perhaps someone...

"I think x is true because I do and I really, really hope it!" - Bad logic. My point is that something like faith is not independent of some sort of logic system.

So? Can you explain why those things must necessarily be true? Anyway the whole argument is redundant without logic... If you want to abandon it as pointless for certain things then I'll merely ask you why you don't abandon it for others. People don't come to believe in love pixies through...

Well I think that's just false attribution spurred on by a hope to believe it's true. If I were to say my posting in this thread is a miracle you'd go "well... I can understand without a god how one could come to be posting in a thread" and you wouldn't consider it a miracle, for it to be a true...

All I heard was "100 people killed themselves because they thought they saw jesus", I think my example shows how this can happen without the need for their claim to actually be true... If you want to talk about lives lived dangerously/devoted to their belief then what about all the other...

*TRUE* Have you ever seen what you believe to be a true miracle, which could not have been anything else but the work of God? I don't mean like... the existence of love in the world nor medical cases which can easily be shown to be within the scope of nature, I mean things which just couldn't...

Fanatic zealots will kill themselves all the time in moments of extreme religious euphoria etc To quickly refute your argument: What about the manson family? Is Charles Manson God? Plenty of people have died because they're delusional.

Prove these things happened.

It is possible that there is a God whose logic is beyond us, the point is that you're claiming a belief in such a god... there is absolutely no logical reason for you to do so, especially to do so while rejecting other things which I could equally claim exist in a logic beyond us.