Aboriginal children in care now exceeds stolen generations (6 Viewers)

[vandretta]

aboriginals should either use the benefits they're given, or they should be taken away.

I think you'll actually find that if a person (of any race) is found to be using their welfare/other government contributions for any other purpose than is intended (i.e. illicit drug use, alcohol abuse, etc) that the government will in fact remove their welfare/government contribution payments.

So please, before you make such racist comments, ensure you know the facts not some perverted understanding of the truth.

 

[JaredR]

One might of thought a jew of all people would be sympathetic to genocide. What was your compensation ? A whole country and a license to ignore the UN whenever you see fit?

Systematic removal of children in abusive/neglectful situations is not genocide. Are you aware of the definition of genocide? I will not be sympathetic to parents who, irrespective of race, religion or ethnicity abuse or neglect their children.

 

[hpdanemma]

whoa, so hang on, cause we call aboriginals a few bad names, they can wallow in all the government benefits and everything else they receive, yet still be a lower class in our society? and i'm sorry, but unless an aboriginal is one of the stolen generation, or possibly offspring of the stolen generation, they probably would have little more sympathy for it than i do.

fuck them, if they aren't going to use the benefits they're given, we'll take them away. they can earn a living the way normal people do, instead of relying on benefits for their grog and their drugs. There is no legal reason for employers to descriminate against them, therefore they should have no more trouble than the rest of us to get a job.
therefore, in conclusion, aboriginals should either use the benefits they're given, or they should be taken away. far out.

Not all Aboriginals don't use the benefits in a positive way. Even if it is the minority, their rights shouldn't be ignored because a larger number of people of the same culture abuse the money. Anyway, I don't necessarily think the government should have Aboriginal-only welfare payments. Yeh, restore what is owed and everything but then I think they should get the same welfare payments as other cultures. Hmm I'm not sure of the specific legislation so I'm not fully informed about the mechanisms of the payments but I think something more general should be in place. And it should depend on the individual how much they are awarded based on what they need the money for etc. But yeh, I just hate all the stigma attatched to Aboriginals! Everyone seems to attack the culture as an entity, and it's sickening some of the comments that have been made.

 

[hpdanemma]

I think you'll actually find that if a person (of any race) is found to be using their welfare/other government contributions for any other purpose than is intended (i.e. illicit drug use, alcohol abuse, etc) that the government will in fact remove their welfare/government contribution payments.

So please, before you make such racist comments, ensure you know the facts not some perverted understanding of the truth.

Ahh there we go Thanks for that info!

 

[Rockyroad]

An article for anyone with an open mind wanting to expand their knowledge and perspective on the topic:
http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=507

 

[bigboyjames]

sometimes i feel sorry for abos but then i dont coz they get all that shit from the govt.

 

[hpdanemma]

"Shortly before last year’s election, Howard declared a “national emergency” and sent the army to the Northern Territory to “protect the children” who, said his minister for indigenous affairs, were being abused in “unthinkable numbers”...In May, barely reported, government statistics revealed that of the 7433 Aboriginal children examined by doctors as part of the “national emergency”, 39 had been referred to the authorities for suspected abuse. Of those, a maximum of just four possible cases of abuse were identified. Such were the “unthinkable numbers”. They were little different from those of child abuse in white Australia. What was different was that no soldiers invaded the beachside suburbs, no white parents were swept aside, no white welfare was “quarantined”. "


This is the point I have been trying to make. As a society, we suffer from these issues. Why does the media focus on abuse in the Aboriginal community? Why do small-minded people accept this stereotype and simply write off the rest of the community? It's attitudes like that which segregate our society.

 

[Rockyroad]

sometimes i feel sorry for abos but then i dont coz they get all that shit from the govt.

Maybe the govt also feels sorry for them...
They get help because they are disadvantaged.
You should feel sorry for them.

 

[Rockyroad]

"Shortly before last year’s election, Howard declared a “national emergency” and sent the army to the Northern Territory to “protect the children” who, said his minister for indigenous affairs, were being abused in “unthinkable numbers”...In May, barely reported, government statistics revealed that of the 7433 Aboriginal children examined by doctors as part of the “national emergency”, 39 had been referred to the authorities for suspected abuse. Of those, a maximum of just four possible cases of abuse were identified. Such were the “unthinkable numbers”. They were little different from those of child abuse in white Australia. What was different was that no soldiers invaded the beachside suburbs, no white parents were swept aside, no white welfare was “quarantined”. "


This is the point I have been trying to make. As a society, we suffer from these issues. Why does the media focus on abuse in the Aboriginal community? Why do small-minded people accept this stereotype and simply write off the rest of the community? It's attitudes like that which segregate our society.

Yes. These concepts are applicable to all aspects of society. I predict that as the economic crisis worsens, scapegoating will become even worse. Media blames 'dole bludgers' and immigrants and anyone else.
The extract you quoted is really good.
I hope they stop the racist intervention.

 

[Graney]

if you propose limiting the welfare subject to certain outcomes, e.g. they have to clothe, feed & send their kids to school, or maybe only give them one public house and if they trash it then they can be homeless, or something like that...
then it's paternalism and you're violating their human rights (lol)

if you propose moving them into towns & cities and having them live like westerners it's cultural genocide

Yeah, they're the correct proposals. Not forcing them into towns and cities, but encouraging them to integrate, by providing less assistance to live in marginal areas.

I don't think so called 'cultural genocide' is a bad thing. Western values like "having a job" and "education" are awesome and everyone should hold them.

It's not analogeous to genocide, because we're not forcefully taking away their freedom to choose to live in and practice their traditional culture. We're just choosing not to subsidise an unsustainable and destructive lifestyle.

They must live among westerners, like westerners. This sort of bullshit wouldn't go on if they lived in western communities http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24713206-5006790,00.html

 

[katie tully]

Either way, if England didn't colonise Aus... Somebody else would have. If the French or Spanish got their hands on Aus .......................................................

 

[Graney]

This is the point I have been trying to make. As a society, we suffer from these issues. Why does the media focus on abuse in the Aboriginal community? Why do small-minded people accept this stereotype and simply write off the rest of the community? It's attitudes like that which segregate our society.

Per capita, there is far more of every kind of abuse in aboriginal communities. Fact.

The media focusses on it because they're heaps fucked up?

 

[katie tully]

Yes. These concepts are applicable to all aspects of society. I predict that as the economic crisis worsens, scapegoating will become even worse. Media blames 'dole bludgers' and immigrants and anyone else.
The extract you quoted is really good.
I hope they stop the racist intervention.

What? The financial crisis was not caused by dole bludgers, and if any scapegoating will occur, it will do so at the expense of big spenders and big banks. Considering that unemployment is predicted to rise to 6%, nobody with half a brain will blame 'dole bludgers' ...

Do you stop and think about your responses? And I lol so hard when you guys call it a racist intervention. If there was a community of white people living up there, giving 18 month old babies STDs and allowing the gang rape of 14 year old girls, you wouldn't call it a racist intervention then, would you?

If you believe they should be left alone to booze their money away, rape their kids and contribute nothing to society, then why are you so hell bent on us helping them, despite the fact you don't believe we should touch them?!

 

[Graney]

Yes. These concepts are applicable to all aspects of society. I predict that as the economic crisis worsens, scapegoating will become even worse. Media blames 'dole bludgers' and immigrants and anyone else.
The extract you quoted is really good.
I hope they stop the racist intervention.

dole bludgers is so early 1990's
Attacking immigrants is so 1960's

Other than mabye Today Tonight, Daily Telegraph, I don't think the media routinely criticises marginalised demographics such as the unemployed, new immigrants.

The zeitgeist is heaps sympathetic to these groups if anything.

 

[katie tully]

hahahah @ that link you posted

Like the children of apartheid, the Aboriginal children of Thamarrurr in the Northern Territory receive less than half the educational resources allotted to white children.

Creative use of emotion! It works out like this because;
a. White people tend not to live in shit hole communities
b. Why should a community of 6 aboriginal kids who probably don't even go to school, get the exact same amount of funding as larger schools?

Having let a few crumbs fall, Kevin Rudd has picked up where Howard left off. His indigenous affairs minister, Jenny Mackie, threatens to withdraw government support from remote communities that are “economically unviable”. The Northern Territory is the only region where Aborigines have comprehensive land rights, granted almost by accident 30 years ago. Here lies some of the world’s biggest deposits of uranium. Canberra wants to mine it and sell it.

If you want to live... up there... in your native habitat and not work, why should you EXPECT, nay DEMAND to be remain in the manner to which you've become accustomed by the Gov? You either get a job and stfu, or you live traditionally and don't take any hand outs.

 

[kokodamonkey]

Not all Aboriginals don't use the benefits in a positive way. Even if it is the minority, their rights shouldn't be ignored because a larger number of people of the same culture abuse the money. Anyway, I don't necessarily think the government should have Aboriginal-only welfare payments. Yeh, restore what is owed and everything but then I think they should get the same welfare payments as other cultures. Hmm I'm not sure of the specific legislation so I'm not fully informed about the mechanisms of the payments but I think something more general should be in place. And it should depend on the individual how much they are awarded based on what they need the money for etc. But yeh, I just hate all the stigma attatched to Aboriginals! Everyone seems to attack the culture as an entity, and it's sickening some of the comments that have been made.

I think it's disgusting for one that they get these benefits. That they carry on how they do about "what we have done" and that it is "their land". let me tell you something. EVERYSINGLE "Aboriginal" that is alive today, was born in the last 100years. Just like every other single Australian. and you know what that means? That mean's they are the same as every single other person in this country. They are Australian. They are not Aboriginal. They deserve no special treatment.

An article for anyone with an open mind wanting to expand their knowledge and perspective on the topic:
http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=507

Oh Yeah, like John Pilger is really a reliable unbiased source. The guy is a crazy nutter. I remember ranting at him on Q&A Before they censored me.

Yeah, they're the correct proposals. Not forcing them into towns and cities, but encouraging them to integrate, by providing less assistance to live in marginal areas.

I don't think so called 'cultural genocide' is a bad thing. Western values like "having a job" and "education" are awesome and everyone should hold them.

It's not analogeous to genocide, because we're not forcefully taking away their freedom to choose to live in and practice their traditional culture. We're just choosing not to subsidise an unsustainable and destructive lifestyle.

They must live among westerners, like westerners. This sort of bullshit wouldn't go on if they lived in western communities http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24713206-5006790,00.html

I Agree 100%. The only way the "Aboriginals" are going to have a proper lifestyle is untill everyone realises it just isn't feasable to live in remote communities and expect the same standard of care. If we are having enough trouble in the cities getting enough doctors per 10,000people, how are we going to get enough for 300people out in the middle of nowhere?

I for one believe the only way to address this situation properly is for everyone to realise they are not "aboriginals" they are AUSTRALIANS, just like those that decendants from Italy that were born in australia, are, you guessed it, AUSTRALIANS.

I am sick and tired of people trying to force some sort of blackarmband view of our History and try to shame us of "our past". I for one am PROUD to call myself an AUSTRALIAN and am PROUD of our history and you should too.

 

[hpdanemma]

Well I am certainly not proud of our history lol. But I do see your point about them being Australians and should be treated as such. Except so many people IN THIS THREAD talk about Aboriginals as if they're some pathetic 'lesser' nationality. Although we should see them as fellow Australians, they should, like all Australians, have a right to their own cultural belies and lifestyle. If any individual wants to live a nomadic lifestyle [although that's a bit hard this day and age], they should have the right to that. Everyone is allowed to believe in whatever they want.
But what I'm opposed to is all the sick discrimination towards the Aboriginal culture, if you're just going to blame them and whinge about them getting money then you're not really helping the discussion along.
Take away their welfare payments, what will that really achieve? Do you think Aboriginals will suddenly realise the 'eror of their ways' and decide that it would be best to clean up their act and come join white society? Um, no, I don't think so. They're adults, you can't treat them like a bunch of naughty kids! What the government is trying to do is HELP the Aboriginal community, the problem is so many people want different things, it's difficult to accomodate for all individuals [as is the case with all issues].
So yeh, other than the discriminatory comments and accusations, I see where a lot of you are coming from and this is obviously an issue with no easy solution.

 

[boris]

I am quite relieved by the amount of open discussion and clear thinking that took place here last night. Except by a few retards who still have not contributed anything of worth to the discussion. Anyway i think we have come up with a few good ideas.


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24713206-5006790,00.html

just read that. fucking sick cunts need a bullet. need extermination. sick fucking animals.

 

[katie tully]

If any individual wants to live a nomadic lifestyle [although that's a bit hard this day and age], they should have the right to that.

They definitely should. They sure as hell shouldn't expect to be propped up by the Gov though when they cbf working like everybody else.

Take away their welfare payments, what will that really achieve? Do you think Aboriginals will suddenly realise the 'eror of their ways' and decide that it would be best to clean up their act and come join white society?

No tard, the aim would be to show that they cannot abuse welfare payments and get away with it. That's exactly the point, if they can't use them properly, they shouldn't get any at all. It's the same for all welfare abusers, not just Aboriginals.

 

[Rockyroad]

What? The financial crisis was not caused by dole bludgers, and if any scapegoating will occur, it will do so at the expense of big spenders and big banks. Considering that unemployment is predicted to rise to 6%, nobody with half a brain will blame 'dole bludgers' ...

Do you stop and think about your responses? And I lol so hard when you guys call it a racist intervention. If there was a community of white people living up there, giving 18 month old babies STDs and allowing the gang rape of 14 year old girls, you wouldn't call it a racist intervention then, would you?

If you believe they should be left alone to booze their money away, rape their kids and contribute nothing to society, then why are you so hell bent on us helping them, despite the fact you don't believe we should touch them?!

Of course the financial crisis was not caused by dole bludgers. I never said it was.
You completely don't get what I'm saying. I never said I we shouldn't touch them. If you've been paying attention to what me and the others have been saying, one of my main points is that they are disadvantaged and should be helped.
I think it is a racist intervention because of the way they are doing it. I think intervention, in itself is a good thing. I certainly don't think they should be left alone. Why did you think I want that? I hope I answered your questions and that you are no longer confused.