Abortion debate (4 Viewers)

[gerhard]

the psychoanalysist in me says that phanatical is projecting his inability to form a succesful relationship with the opposite sex, and his frustrations at this have led to his conservative social views with respect to women. (ie if he cant get sex, no one should be able to)


ultimately, phanatical just wants to be loved

 

[Not-That-Bright]

After a little while thinking about this issue, my personal stance is that abortion is the murder of human life - but it is often a justified murder, and in most abortion cases a very peaceful one.

 

[loquasagacious]

the psychoanalysist in me says that phanatical is projecting his inability to form a succesful relationship with the opposite sex, and his frustrations at this have led to his conservative social views with respect to women. (ie if he cant get sex, no one should be able to)


ultimately, phanatical just wants to be loved

So are you going to give him the loving he needs?

@NTB: Its the freemarket at work. Abortions must be rational if they occur, for every abortion that occurs the pros outweighed the cons.

 

[katie_tully]

Alright, I'm baaaaaaaaaack! And I promise not to call Phanatical any names. Unless of course he deserves it.

1. A foetus is not "a life". You are not murdering a foetus when you perform an abortion, if you were then abortions would be illegal. It makes sense, right? Cheerio.
Secondly, this "protecting life" argument. You're argument is based on the idea that you're protecting the life of the unborn foetus, however the pro choice debate is about protecting the life of the mother and perhaps father, the actual lives affected. The foetus relies on the mother for life! By protecting the foetus you are subsequently disregarding the rights and the life of the mother by preventing her from making decisions which pertain to her body.
If the father in question is in a similar position as the other, ie - isn't ready for a child, cannot financially support the child and mother then you are protecting the father as well.
So that is two lives which should have a higher bearing than the "life", and I use the term loosely, of an unborn foetus.
Remeber kids!

Now, let's talk about sex!
I get the gist that Phanatical is quite anti sex until marriage thus preventing accidents, thus that's the socially mature thing so we should all follow suit.
I see sex not as something which should be abused, but as something which allows couples to increase their intimacy. Sex between loving couples is a beautiful thing I believe. It brings people closer, it enhances trust and it's definately something which is quite enjoyable. For you to go on a tirade about how we shouldn't be having sex is completely misguided.

We'd all be uptight arseholes then, wouldn't we.

 

[erawamai]

misguided.

We'd all be uptight arseholes then, wouldn't we.

But but thats irresponsible! Human should only engage in sexual relations for the sake of procreation!

I think phanatical owns it to all the unborn and furture lives out there to come up with a more realistic way of preventing unwanted pregnancies. Simply telling people to not have sex will not and does not work.

There is a time in ones life or in a a relationship where sex is the natural progression. Humans' try hard to control our urges but still we are not very good at controlling them. Many humans are weak when it comes to sex and will have sex regardless of the risks (Pregancies, AIDS and STD's)...simple telling people not to do something which is pleasurable and which we are biologically designed to do is not going to work without strong coersion by the powers that be.

 

[katie_tully]

Anyway I may have shared this little ditty with you all before, but everytime I think about it, it enrages me.

It's a little ditty about the double standards that occur within the anti abortionists!

Phanatical is anti sex. From what I gather, if children are exposed to sex then it's the parents fault. If children are raped, well then it's a failing on behalf of parents for allowing the child to be put in that situation.
Funny thing about exposing children to sex, and by children I mean 5/6th graders. Sex education, whether you wish to believe it or not, is the most effective way to prevent unwanted pregnancies. If you can educate children as young as 11/12 on the dangers of unprotected sex, STDS, pregnancy, rape then they're going to be less inclined to partake in dangerous sexual activities. Now, I remember vividly being told that the only way not to get any of these is not to have sex...Hahaha. Yes, <3

Anyway, where am I going with this. Oh yes...Phanatical is the anti abortionist who believes if children get exposed to sex then it's a failing of society or some crap.

Well, we had the Right to Life! association come to our primary school not that long ago. Mum and I went, because despite the fact that my mother is a Roman Catholic she's actually pro choice! Whhhhhhhy? Because when she was 18 she had me She obviously kept me, but if circumstances were different she felt that her faith wasn't going to put food on the table and if she couldn't provide for me in the way I deserved, she wanted the choice available. Anyway so right to life came, and they were educating our little un's about foetus's! They were telling our little ones that the moment you get pregnant you aren't going to be a mother, you are a mother! Now obviously 11 year olds aren't going to grasp the subliminal message behind that just yet...and then he sold them replica's of foetus body parts at 10 weeks. I mean, honestly.
So what impact is this going to have on the kids? Well before they've even learnt about what sex really is, before they've learnt about STDS, protective sex, talking with parents, they've been exposed to the result of sex! It'd be totally out of the question to get the Pro Choice people to come and tell the kids about the financial, social, physical, mental, etc ramifications of having children though, wouldnt it.

 

[katie_tully]

Oh I know.

Put graphic photos on the back of condom packets. Coz like, it worked for smokers right?

 

[loquasagacious]

I'm thinking a written warning eg;

GOVERNMENT HEALTH WARNING:
It has been shown that there is a link between having sex and falling pregant.

 

[spell check]

we need policemen in every bedroom

 

[ice_wind]

its a human life, no one should have the right to take away a human life...its the same as murder...it should be illegal...i mean, if u dont want a child, use a comdom or the pill...or spermidices, watever, its not the foetus's fault he/she was born...so why sentence he/she to death???

 

[katie_tully]

Oh god. I give up.

 

[loquasagacious]

Personally I am deeply concerned by the slaughter of tens of thousands of sperm when people use condoms/the pill/spermicide/etc.....

 

[spell check]

i think the point is a foetus hasn't been born yet, so it's not a human life - if anything a foetus is just a parasite, living off the mother

it should be totally up to the mother whether or not the foetus is born

i cant see why people have any sympathy for a foetus anyway, thousands of actual living people die every day of hunger and disease that could be cured, why not put your anti-abortion efforts into preventing those deaths rather than making sure more people are born

 

[phunk_e]

This is my 2 cents
im for abortions.
i respect peoples opinions and at the moment everyone has a choice.
if your against abortions...then dont have 1! its that simple! we should respect ppls freedom of choice. if you dont understand why people have abortions then consider this.... they may hav actually made a mature decision to protect a child from an unsuitable environment. think about it. There are so many kids these days being brought up by people who shouldnt be parents yet. and who suffers? the child! they dont deserve to be brought up in such an unstable environment. You cant force ppl to become parents!
Alot of ppl on here hav said- but your killing an innocent life. well to you i say- what good is there having a child when you dont want it or arnt ready for it? in these situations the child suffers a long drawn out death anyway...where is there quality of life?
plus all of you who say- you should use protection in the first place...well accidents happen! no matter how many precautions you take!

 

[katie_tully]

No phunk-e, they shouldn't have had sex in the first place. Der.

 

[phunk_e]

No phunk-e, they shouldn't have had sex in the first place. Der.

Oh yeh of course! silly me! oops!

On that note... it appears some ppl feel that you should only have sex if you want to produce a child... what about people who cant have children?? does that mean they cant have sex...ever..???

 

[braad]

Oh yeh of course! silly me! oops!

On that note... it appears some ppl feel that you should only have sex if you want to produce a child... what about people who cant have children?? does that mean they cant have sex...ever..???

you're assuming a bit too much i think

if i was to assume, in your other post, you said if people dont want a baby, they shouldnt be able to abort...i'm for abortions, but i dont think someone changing their mind or thinking the child wont suit their current lifestyle is a good enough reason.

 

[katie_tully]

No braad, they were correct. It has been said in this thread that you should only have sex for the purpose of procreation.

They shall remain nameless.

 

[braad]

No braad, they were correct. It has been said in this thread that you should only have sex for the purpose of procreation.

They shall remain nameless.

seriously?

well, im glad i didnt bother to read the whole thread.

funnily enough i was pondering this last night whilst half drunk and trying to sleep (it's a fun time of life) and came to the conclusion that humans are here to reproduce, but despite this sex was still able to be had for reasons other than procreation (at that point) like pleasure, fun, exercise, cure for boredom, etc

 

[katie_tully]

Dolphins and humans are the only mammals on earth that have sex for pleasure