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Abortion debate (3 Viewers)

Abortion debate

  • Abortion illegalised

    Votes: 51 19.8%
  • Tougher laws

    Votes: 35 13.6%
  • Keep current laws

    Votes: 155 60.1%
  • don't care

    Votes: 17 6.6%

  • Total voters
    258
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kateri88

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Not-That-Bright said:
Please prove using any accountable method whatsoever that you have a soul.
you missed the point...the unreliable human mental capacity hasn't been able to prove it (which i doubt it ever will)...this doesn't mean it doesn't exist... and personally i prefer to consider myself with a soul, and have something to live for as opposed to the pessimistic 'Earth is it' philosophy
and yes, religion and personal beliefs have everything to do with life-changing (or killing) choices such as abortion
 

ur_inner_child

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its not pessimistic.

must everything be so black and white?

religious types and their extremes. :(
 
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So basically your entire argument rests on two unproveable tenents:

1) The existence of God and 'His laws' that tell us (somewhere so far unknown) that abortion is a sin.

and

2) The existence of the soul that determines the existence of life and thus the premise that abortion is murder.


Way to go genius.

Oh and please you asked me to prove something and I did so please, the floor is all yours...
 

Not-That-Bright

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you missed the point...the unreliable human mental capacity hasn't been able to prove it (which i doubt it ever will)...
Nope, I'm pretty sure I didn't miss that.

this doesn't mean it doesn't exist...
Sure isn't a good reason to believe it does tho eh?

and personally i prefer to consider myself with a soul, and have something to live for as opposed to the pessimistic 'Earth is it' philosophy
Well I don't see it as pessimistic. But I prefer to consider myself with a million dollars as opposed to the pessimistic 'no million dollars' philosophy.

As for having to live for, what does belief in God give you to live for? You're a moral and you most likely 'live for' the exact same mortal niceties that I live for.

and yes, religion and personal beliefs have everything to do with life-changing (or killing) choices such as abortion
Personally I don't believe that you've come to the decision to oppose abortion because of religious reasons, it just doesn't add up to me. For instance, I could ask you "Why don't you keep the sabbath day holy?" or "Why do you lie?" and you'll say "It's too hard/inconvenient for me to follow those laws, as much as i'd like to" - so why is it that you won't accept other's much more serious inconveniences when it comes to having a child as a justifiable excuse for commiting sin? I mean for starters it's one of those situations that are uncertain and in many practical ways abortion is often what appears to logically be the best option.
 
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bubz :D

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guys, please stay on topic and refrain from insulting others personally.

when discussing articles, include a link to the relevant URL. and leave a warning when posting NSFW images, otherwise it will be deleted.
 

bshoc

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veridis said:
19 and 22 no. 10 and 30, thats a difference.
so say 20 and 18 are also no, which goes for 18 and 16, 16 and 14, 14 and 12, 12 and 10, 10 and 8, 8 and 6, 6 and 4, 4 and 2, 2 and .. oh whoops look where you've getten yourself.
 

bshoc

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*Minka* said:
Prick.

I am far from a sexist - I said a lot of men, not all men and I am well aware of the fact that many men support a womans right to choose what she does with her own body. There are many prominant male politicions out there trying to tell women that their uterus is basically a baby machine and that she has no rights. If a woman doesn't want an abortion, thats fine because no one is making her have one, but she has no right to infringe on anothers right to choose what to do with her pregnancy.

Of course men have played some part in devloping womens rights, but there are many still trapped in that sorry Christian mindsight of women submitting and popping out a baby a year and being their property.
Women have no rights when it comes to killing off another person, if its not your gene sequence, Its not your body, get it through your tiny little brain, capiche heffa?
 
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bshoc

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ur_inner_child said:
its not pessimistic.

must everything be so black and white?

religious types and their extremes. :(
Becuase there is nothing in between murder and life.
 

Not-That-Bright

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I hope if you're against women having abortions, you're more than willing to put up the money for a social welfare system to deal with all these unwanted children and provide assistance to their mothers? Can you also please explain how you plan to stop women from aborting their child? It's very easy to have some fancy rhetoric-filled argument about 'what is human?', I find the practical problems of outlawing abortion is where the anti-abortionist has alot more trouble justifying their position.
 
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_dhj_

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bshoc said:
so say 20 and 18 are also no, which goes for 18 and 16, 16 and 14, 14 and 12, 12 and 10, 10 and 8, 8 and 6, 6 and 4, 4 and 2, 2 and .. oh whoops look where you've getten yourself.
Obviously at two weeks the fetus will not survive outside the woman.
 

bshoc

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Not-That-Bright said:
I hope if you're against women having abortions, you're more than willing to put up the money for a social welfare system to deal with all these unwanted children and provide assistance to their mothers? Can you also please explain how you plan to stop women from aborting their child?
Assuming abortions are outlawed first? Most certainly, I'm definitely on the left when it comes to the welfare system etc. We can stop most abortions by illigalizing them and prosecuting doctors/mothers that do them illigaly under existing manslaugher/murder laws. We also need a revamp of the legal system itself, where it serves the interest of the state rather than the personal interests of its participants.
 

Not-That-Bright

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Most certainly, I'm definitely on the left when it comes to the welfare system etc.
That's nice. So what sort of system do you imagine? One where all the children are adopted-out or put into some sort of orphanage?

We can stop most abortions by illigalizing them and proseuting doctors/mothers that do them illigaly under existing manslaugher/murder laws.
Wow. So much misery, pain caused by banning abortion. Doctor's going to gaol, Women going to gaol, babies put up for adoption knowing their mother never wanted them, children living in orphanages, society paying up the money to support this. Such an unpleasant world created in defence of a creature that didn't even care it was going to die. Not to mention the outrage of let's say the entire country that such laws had been put in place.

I'd rather be aborted than be born into your world.

We also need a revamp of the legal system itself, where it serves the interest of the state rather than the personal interests of its participants.
Would you not agree that in a utilitarian state, it would be the interest of the state to attempt to maximise happiness of it's citizens and minimise sadness? How do you think that goes with your heavy stance on abortion?
 
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bshoc

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Damage Inc. said:
How about we sterilize your parents for the good of the state?
Becuase they produced indaviduals such as myself, why would you ever want to harm such great people.

You fucking moron, what kind of sickfuck thought is that, how about we break off your dads legs or drown you mom in the toilet - what kind of fucktard are you.
 

bshoc

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Not-That-Bright said:
That's nice. So what sort of system do you imagine? One where all the children are adopted-out or put into some sort of orphanage?
Well first of all the idea of increased financial incentives would be ideally targeted at mothers rasing their own children, with adoption as a secondary layer and state orphanage perhaps as a last resort (if needed).

Wow. So much misery, pain caused by banning abortion. Doctor's going to gaol, Women going to gaol, babies put up for adoption knowing their mother never wanted them, children living in orphanages, society paying up the money to support this. Such an unpleasant world created in defence of a creature that didn't even care it was going to die.
Ok now that you're alive would you care if you were aborted? For example if someone could got back in time and killed you off as a fetus would you mind, ofcourse you would, becuase that fetus isnt just a fetus, that fetus would be YOU. Its already an unpleasant world as it is, killing less babies could actually do something to improve it.

I'd rather be aborted than be born into your world.
And I'd rather live among live people than dead babies.
 

bshoc

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Damage Inc. said:
Ahahahahaha, you're American, that's why you're so fucking retarded.
I'm from Europe ... I've never set foot on the American continent, ever.
 

Not-That-Bright

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Ok now that you're alive would you care if you were aborted? For example if someone could got back in time and killed you off as a fetus would you mind, ofcourse you would, becuase that fetus isnt just a fetus, that fetus would be YOU.
The babies just don't care, because unlike me they never were alive. Sure, now that I'm alive I care, but a fetus doesn't care and will never care because it's never been alive - That's where the analogy is wrong. I actually did end up being a conscious death-fearing human, the fetus never was.

Its already an unpleasant world as it is, killing less babies could actually do something to improve it.
I don't know of too many people affected drastically by their deaths, most reputable studies I've seen into it show that most women don't suffer any emotional harm from having an abortion and those that do were often coaxed into it against their will by their family/partner. Maybe all this unpleasantness in the world is radiating from people like yourself? Do you cry thinking about the aborted babies or something? Now on the other hand, I can think of many people that would be affected drastically by your ideas if they were to be implimented. In Australia I believe it's something like 80,000 women each year getting abortions.
 
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bshoc

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Damage Inc. said:
I'm wishing they start a sterilization program. People like you'd be the first to go. Ah, it's all so dreamy.
Why not sterilize all pro-abortion people, at least that makes sense since you'll never have to face the oh so "difficult" decision, also poofters like you.
 

bshoc

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Not-That-Bright said:
The babies just don't care, because unlike me they never were alive. Sure, now that I'm alive I care, but a fetus doesn't care and will never care because it's never been alive - That's where the analogy is wrong. I actually did end up being a conscious death-fearing human, the fetus never was.
Yes but you are killing a person that has those qualities. Even if what you say is true (which it isnt), you're still killing something that will have those qualities, and that does not make it any better - the same way it doesent matter whether we kill people if they are awake or asleep.

I don't know of too many people affected drastically by their deaths, most reputable studies I've seen into it show that most women don't suffer any emotional harm from having an abortion and those that do were often coaxed into it against their will by their family/partner.
How nice.

Do you cry thinking about the aborted babies or something?
Not really, it is however a silent genocide, and since I still have some reason left in my brain and am capable of forming INDAPENDANT opinions on issues, I oppose it.

Now on the other hand, I can think of many people that would be affected drastically by your ideas if they were to be implimented.
Given the general social environment at the moment, I think we are closer than even I hope :)

80,000 women each year getting abortions.
scum, since they've knowingly taken a life, their lives arent worth shit either.

At least you screen name accurately reflects you, I commend your choice.
 
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Not-That-Bright

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you're still killing something that will have those qualities, and that does not make it any better - the same way it doesent matter whether we kill people if they are awake or asleep.
Well someone that's asleep has been conscious before, they care about their life before they go to sleep. A fetus doesn't care about it's life while it is forming.


Not really, it is however a silent genocide, and since I still have some reason left in my brain and am capable of forming INDAPENDANT opinions on issues, I oppose it.
Whatever, but where's this pain comming from? The fetus's? We've established they don't feel pain. So if the women whom get the abortions usually don't feel pain and if other people that oppose abortion are like you and don't feel any pain - then where does the pain come from? Because I can tell you that in your world, there is alot of pain caused and alot of people would be upset.

Therefore isn't the decision easy?

Allow abortion - Little pain.
Ban abortion - Lots of pain.

For a utilitarian society the decision seems quite easy.
 
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