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Advanced English vs. Standard English (2 Viewers)

kazan

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i am doing standard because i dont like english so i thought it would be better to use my time on my science subjects, but my teacher last year said i could of done ext, but i definitly belonged in adv, now that i am doing standard i am bored outta my mind
i sit there and read all the texts that are lying around the school, i cant change till the end of the school yr, so i have to wait it out :mad:
 

nwatts

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A l said:
Who would bother researching anything they say?
I can tell you that research has been done before to say that English(Advanced) and English(Standard) are scaled the same.
I don't think that's entirely correct. Just looking at past students' UAI results, anyone can see that doing moderately well in English Advanced pushes your marks well above another who does very well in Standard. There's often a difference of over 10 marks, yet Board of Studies scaling will push an Advanced mark far higher.

It also raises the question of the point behind the Advanced course. Why not reward stronger students with higher marks? It doesn't make sense for Standard and Advanced to scale similarly.

Just a side note, I’ve found that Advanced texts are much, much more difficult to study and discuss than the Standard ones I’m familiar with, as are the modules. Compare the nature of module, and then the texts on option, and it's quite clear that Advanced students are focusing on harder texts, and exploring them in more complex ways.

Taking into account the more difficult nature of material in the Advanced course, it seems even more illogical to scale the two courses similarly.

I'm not completely belittling what you're saying AI, it's simply that the evidence I’ve seen has indicated that the two courses are scaled quite differently, which (to me) is because of the more difficult nature of the Advanced course.

I know some people that would have a heart attack trying to read Ondaatje's 'In the Skin of a Lion' or trying to study Stoppard's 'Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead' (two prescribed texts for different modules in the Advanced course) - which is why they do Standard, and have enjoyed the simpler nature of its material.
 

A l

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nwatts said:
I don't think that's entirely correct. Just looking at past students' UAI results, anyone can see that doing moderately well in English Advanced pushes your marks well above another who does very well in Standard. There's often a difference of over 10 marks, yet Board of Studies scaling will push an Advanced mark far higher.

It also raises the question of the point behind the Advanced course. Why not reward stronger students with higher marks? It doesn't make sense for Standard and Advanced to scale similarly.

Just a side note, I’ve found that Advanced texts are much, much more difficult to study and discuss than the Standard ones I’m familiar with, as are the modules. Compare the nature of module, and then the texts on option, and it's quite clear that Advanced students are focusing on harder texts, and exploring them in more complex ways.

Taking into account the more difficult nature of material in the Advanced course, it seems even more illogical to scale the two courses similarly.

I'm not completely belittling what you're saying AI, it's simply that the evidence I’ve seen has indicated that the two courses are scaled quite differently, which (to me) is because of the more difficult nature of the Advanced course.

I know some people that would have a heart attack trying to read Ondaatje's 'In the Skin of a Lion' or trying to study Stoppard's 'Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead' (two prescribed texts for different modules in the Advanced course) - which is why they do Standard, and have enjoyed the simpler nature of its material.
You are mainly evaluating ALIGNED HSC MARKS and the distribution of ALIGNED MARKS of English(Advanced) and English(Standard). Remember, these are not the marks used for scaling. Also, the Board of Studies does not conduct the scaling process, it is the people of the UAC that conduct the scaling process. What you've outlined is that English(Advanced) and English(Standard) are ALIGNED differently, which is true. However, they are scaled the same.
RAW MARKS are used for scaling. That is, the original marks before a standard settings procedure is conducted for aligned marks. It is these raw marks that are used on a common scale for English(Standard) and English(Advanced). There is also a process in determining raw marks so that the differences in supposed level of difficulty is removed:

The HSC examination pattern of both English(Advanced) and English(Standard) consists of a common paper which assesses the Area of Study component of the course and a modules paper which assesses the individual modules within each course.
Now, when both English(Standard) and English(Advanced) students attempt Paper 1, it is likely that the English(Advanced) students would have gained the advantage over the English(Standard) students. The distribution of marks in both English(Advanced) and English(Standard) in Paper 1 is often different after they are marked.
When English(Advanced) and English(Standard) students complete their Paper 2, then the distribution of marks of each are shaped to match the distribution of marks in Paper 1. In other words the distribution of marks for Paper 2 of English(Standard) is shaped to match the performance and rankings of all English(Standard) students in Paper 1. The same goes for English(Advanced). This process clears any borderlines of difficulty before the marks are scaled.

Also, it is quite logical that English(Advanced) students tend to perform better than English(Standard) students, hence that explains why English(Advanced) students often obtain a higher UAI. Furthermore, I recall that the highest UAI that a student taking English(Standard) obtained was 99.95, that is very high and thus indicates that English(Standard) students can obtain as high a UAI as English(Advanced) students and that there is no artificial ceiling to stop them from rising.

In terms of aligning, the main reason that English(Standard) students have such a low distribution of high marks is that they are based on the same standards as English(Advanced). A band 6 in English(Standard) should be equivalent to a band 6 in English(Advanced).

So basically, the only difference between English(Standard) and English(Advanced) is the content of their material. It does not matter whether one chooses English(Standard) or English(Advanced) because it is highly likely that he or she may score the same or similar raw mark. The differences between the courses are based on a matter of interest.
 

Rafy

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At my school (TKS) out of 9 english classes only 1 is standard, the rest are advanced. Everybody seems to cope with Advanced.
 

DanielleM

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l find standard good and texts are still interesting
l'm going really well.. and l dont regret not doing standard.
for standard l am doing, henry lawson, witness (interesting than you think), educating rita (dunno) but overall its a pretty good course and assessments are ok!
seriously y bore yourself in advanced doing jane austin and shakespeare?
 

nwatts

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DanielleM said:
seriously y bore yourself in advanced doing jane austin and shakespeare?
Love Shakespeare, hate Austen. :) Luckily for me, the modules i'm doing don't feature any Austen at all.

A l: I see what you're saying - however I don't understand the point of the Advanced course then. If it doesn't benefit more talented students with higher marks, then why does it exist? Or is it simply a pathway to the extension courses?
 

A l

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nwatts said:
I see what you're saying - however I don't understand the point of the Advanced course then. If it doesn't benefit more talented students with higher marks, then why does it exist? Or is it simply a pathway to the extension courses?
Talented students with higher marks can benefit from both English (Standard) and English (Advanced) in the conventional way. The English (Advanced) course exists as an area of interest, with more sophisticated texts. The English(Advanced) course mainly allows students to understand how texts are valued in their contexts. The texts offered in the English (Advanced) course are often more interesting than those offered in the English(Standard) course, especially for talented students.
It is also, as you mentioned, a prerequisite for English Extension courses in which talented students may often undertake, often for purposes of interest.

Refer to this website for an explanation of some aspects of the English subject.
http://www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au/syllabus_hsc/pdf_doc/english_qa_support.pdf

Under the question "Why should students undertake the Advanced course?", it says that:
"The English (Advanced) course was designed to provide students with the opportunity to undertake the challenge of higher-order thinking in English (see syllabus page 12).
The English (Standard) and the English (Advanced) courses are made up of a common Area of Study constituting 40% of each course with 60% made up of modules unique to each course.
The outcomes of the English (Advanced) course incorporate and extend beyond the English (Standard) course outcomes. It is especially through the unique section of the English (Advanced) course that students have the opportunity to demonstrate knowledge, skills and understanding beyond the outcomes established for the English (Standard) course.
The English (Standard) course emphasises reflection on texts and demonstration of the effectiveness of texts for different audiences and purposes. The emphasis of the English (Advanced) course is on the analysis and evaluation of texts and the ways they are valued in their contexts.
"
 

sf_diegoxrock

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AI.. how can u type so much?? it's like you're summarising the Board of Studies syllabus for us
 

mz_yUmi

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A l said:
Talented students with higher marks can benefit from both English (Standard) and English (Advanced) in the conventional way. The English (Advanced) course exists as an area of interest, with more sophisticated texts. The English(Advanced) course mainly allows students to understand how texts are valued in their contexts. The texts offered in the English (Advanced) course are often more interesting than those offered in the English(Standard) course, especially for talented students.
It is also, as you mentioned, a prerequisite for English Extension courses in which talented students may often undertake, often for purposes of interest.

Refer to this website for an explanation of some aspects of the English subject.
http://www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au/syllabus_hsc/pdf_doc/english_qa_support.pdf

Under the question "Why should students undertake the Advanced course?", it says that:
"The English (Advanced) course was designed to provide students with the opportunity to undertake the challenge of higher-order thinking in English (see syllabus page 12).
The English (Standard) and the English (Advanced) courses are made up of a common Area of Study constituting 40% of each course with 60% made up of modules unique to each course.
The outcomes of the English (Advanced) course incorporate and extend beyond the English (Standard) course outcomes. It is especially through the unique section of the English (Advanced) course that students have the opportunity to demonstrate knowledge, skills and understanding beyond the outcomes established for the English (Standard) course.
The English (Standard) course emphasises reflection on texts and demonstration of the effectiveness of texts for different audiences and purposes. The emphasis of the English (Advanced) course is on the analysis and evaluation of texts and the ways they are valued in their contexts.
"

HEY A1 I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS REGARDIN DIS TOPIC... CAN U PLZ ADD ME ON MY EMAIL??? angelical_dreamstarr@hotmail.com
 

melly noodle

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i do advanced english and in my opinion the only difference between adv and standard is the expectations. Standard people do a lot more work and learn a lot more and the advanced lot are expected to already know and understand everything. Standard seem to do more interesting texts, probably to get the students interested. the advanced are expected to study even the most boring texts in depth. and whoever said shakespeare is boring obviously hasn't read any of his works.
xxxmelxxx
 

boo__forschool

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presently, im crawling my way through advanced english. i feel as though the effort is sometimes too difficult to exert; i love the texts so far (kate chopin's the awakening, the great gatsby) but approaching year twelve, some seem very boring. i enjoy shakespeare - i believe we're doing hamlet - & would probably love rosencratz & guild. but the course seems incredibly difficult to me. i ranked 18th within my year (out 67 students) with relatively low results - i think, though, that's because my school's standard is very high.

i've contemplated moving to standard; i would probably hate the simplicity of the texts, however, i do think i'd come to appreciate them come assessment time.

should i drop OR will it bring my UAI down?
 

Meldrum

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Advanced is like Arts(Literature) - looks at the language forms, structures and meaning of texts.
Standard is like teh easy - looks at language and physical interpretations of texts.
 

Jimmy Pax

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Well I'm doing Advanced this year, and all I can say is get me the hell out. I'll more than likely drop to standard in year 12.

Man I hate english
 

mitsui

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i hate english too, and i am doing soo bad in eng this yr (like half the grade failed the whole yr so far).. but i like texts from advanced betta

i juz bad at grammar..XD.. onli been doing eng for 5 yrs.. should i be betta doing standard? coz the good teachers r all teachin standard at skool now. =|
 
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Rax

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Yeah I am doing Adv too. I guess I am going ok but I got my Prelim papers next monday and tuesday and man I sure aint looking forward to it.
What I dont get it is how I can be first in like 4 subjects *Maths, Ext Maths, Bio, HSC Chem* yet get 73% average in Adv English....I just cant write fast enough.
That and I hate english....so Irelevant
 

mitsui

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lolz. omg.. came first in 4 subjects?!?.. *....hides away*...mann then i dont think u even need to worry too much about eng..

nah i actualli somewat like it, coz it is the onli sub i am doing that is not SCIENTIFIC or numbers!>.<!..
but i am struggling wif grammars and crap

mite drop to standard. since it scales the same
 
P

pLuvia

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mimiian said:
my school Penrith high only offers advanced in yr 11 but offers both advanced and standard in year 12. but like 99% of the ppl proceeds to advanced and the standard ppl are taught by the worst enligsh teacher in our school.
well they should be.. i mean the best maths teachers teach general maths.. while the adv and ext 1 have the shitty ones.. although i have the best one~~!! :p
 

mimiian

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my school Penrith high only offers advanced in yr 11 but offers both advanced and standard in year 12. but like 99% of the ppl proceeds to advanced and the standard ppl are taught by the worst enligsh teacher in our school.
 

nwatts

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kadlil said:
well they should be.. i mean the best maths teachers teach general maths.. while the adv and ext 1 have the shitty ones.. although i have the best one~~!! :p
Total opposite at my school. Better teachers teach the harder subjects. Which is how it should be.
 

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