You don't have to be able to trace your lineage back to the first fleet to realize that the British influence on Australia is everywhere. From the language, the form of government, to the way our history developed etc. When they march at Anzac day they don't carry photos of John Curtin. They carry the flag. There's a reason why the generation that went through WW II are the most resistant to changing the flag.Iron said:But it's not our country. Point.
Soldiers fought under the Australian government they elected, not the flag
I dislike nationalism full stop, to be honest, and much of the 'us-them' complex which it sets up. You only 'die for a flag' in a figurative sense - it's the ideals behind the flag which are important, I feel. I'm sure much of this is just my inner iconoclast being brought out.banco55 said:Haha, it just hit me that a lot of (psuedo-?) sophisticates don't like the flag because they have a black arm band view of Australian history. Hopefully when they leave uni they will grow out of it and realize that there's a lot to be said for keeping the flag that our grandfathers etc. fought under. Not to mention acknowledging our links with the country that gave the world shakespeare, newton, adam smith etc. isn't such a bad thing.
I think you're defining nationalism down. There's a difference between patriotism and nationalism. Your definition of nationalism seems to be anyone who takes pride in their country without immediately issuing all these caveats about how racist Australia has been in the past etc. Nationalism is people in Serbia wanting a piece of surrounding countries etc. or people in Scotland wanting to break off from the UK.KFunk said:I dislike nationalism full stop, to be honest, and much of the 'us-them' complex which it sets up. You only 'die for a flag' in a figurative sense - it's the ideals behind the flag which are important, I feel. I'm sure much of this is just my inner iconoclast being brought out.
On links to England --> our cultural ties will remain regardless (though they may diminish/change over time of course). The intellectual ones are going to be present as soon as you walk into The Academy to receive a western education. I'm not quite sure what formal, symbolic recognition adds in this instance.
Possibly not our 'land', but certainly our country. A country consists of more than mere 'terra firma'. I see the country as being defined more by the economic, social and political make up of the society which inhabits the land.Iron said:But it's not our country. Point.
Soldiers fought under the Australian government they elected, not the flag
That's one form of nationalism, and those are extreme examples.banco55 said:I think you're defining nationalism down. There's a difference between patriotism and nationalism. Your definition of nationalism seems to be anyone who takes pride in their country without immediately issuing all these caveats about how racist Australia has been in the past etc. Nationalism is people in Serbia wanting a piece of surrounding countries etc. or people in Scotland wanting to break off from the UK.
They are not really extreme. If you have any familiarity with foreign cultures you'll know that those feelings are quite common ie Mexicans who think Texas was stolen from them, Argentinians who want the Falklands back, Polish who want land back from Russia etc. There was a protest in Tehran on the weekend that 200 000 attended. They were protesting against the name of the "persian gulf" being changed. That is nationalism. Australia doesn't have anything similar.dieburndie said:That's one form of nationalism, and those are extreme examples.
Being proud of your country when you did not contribute to the accomplishments you are proud of, is another form of nationalism.
OK.incentivation said:Possibly not our 'land', but certainly our country. A country consists of more than mere 'terra firma'. I see the country as being defined more by the economic, social and political make up of the society which inhabits the land.
I'm not saying they are extreme because of infrequency, just that nationalism in that sense is a stronger force than that common in Australia.banco55 said:They are not really extreme. If you have any familiarity with foreign cultures you'll know that those feelings are quite common ie Mexicans who think Texas was stolen from them, Argentinians who want the Falklands back, Polish who want land back from Russia etc. There was a protest in Tehran on the weekend that 200 000 attended. They were protesting against the name of the "persian gulf" being changed. That is nationalism. Australia doesn't have anything similar.
No, you can be proud of whatever you want. The result of my argument is that it is irrational to be proud of your country.You can be proud of your parents accomplishments without claiming them as your own. The inevitable result of your argument is that you can't be proud of your country.
Seriously, look the word up.I still think your definition is a misuse of the word "nationalism". It's like people who label every law and order measure adopted by the Government as "facist". The world eventually becomes meaningless. What you are describing is "patriotism".
I meant calling any measure of law and order fascism rather than the action to which it applies is incorrect , in the same context banco55 originally suggested.spyro14 said:How can you say that you can't use the term Fascism to describe any measure of law. If a law is characterised by a extreme right wing authoritarian perspective, what else would you use to describe it?
Monarchy 4 Ever!Iron said:The catalyst was the fall of Singapore and rise of neo-liberalism
Ron Paul says otherwise.what971 said:There is no advantage of being a Republic.