Another reason why god doesn't exist (2 Viewers)

[Enteebee]

One of the key traits shared by homosexuals is to do with parents or parental figures. That is abuse or lack of attention. It is true, homosexuality seems to (according to studies) eminate from either a lack of attention or abuse. in terms of Lack of attention - this usually is the case with males, the father figure (or mother figure in the case of Lesbians) was absent large amounts of the time during their growing up... This is the case with quite a few of my friends.

Hahahha did you write this? http://community.boredofstudies.org/3/non-school/151133/itt-childrens-literature-__.html

For the most part if you want to go looking for it, you can find abuse/lack of attention in a lot of people. As far as I know it's mainly fringe psychologists and moralist christian groups that push this claim.

 

[katie_tully]

I know quite a few gay people. None of them were abused, came from abusive families or lacked attention. None of them were molested.

I didn't have a mother for the better part of my teens. She was always at work. I can remember not seeing her for 3 days at a time (left before I was up, home after I was in bed) and I am straight, my siblings are straight.

I think you will find that claim has no substantial basis what so ever.

 

[robbie1]

Ok... I see you're well versed...
But I have a but... and it's a BIG but...
To me, coming from an educated English background, and one who was a sceptic and came to faith through reason... these verses seem a little out of context. By this I mean Historically and within the passages in the Bible itself.
Of course I'm not God so I can't tell you you're wrong... but I have a couple of further questions.
Why, If everything else Jesus says, is outlined very specifically, like how to get to heaven and such... is this only from slight reference... the bible can get you in to trouble if you take it out of context (e.g. Wives submit to your husbands) and when taken out of context verses meanings can change...

For Instance... the Matthew 5:26 verse is talking about Murder... read 21 to 26, particularly in a translation like the NIV or the ESV and you'll find that the verse is a little different in terms of contextualisation and structuralisation. I don't think it's talking about an otherworldy prison... it's talking about prison as hell... not paying for your sins essentially meaning not bei.ng perfect or not following Christ. It's the sermon on the Mount.

I'm not doubting your theology... just Christian to Christian making sure you check your sources... and your source is reliable, so checking you read the source properly...

I shall add you to my prayers, brother in Christ

I see where you're coming from buddy.....but this debate will go on forever....maybe when (God-willing) we are enjoying our eternal reward we can have a little chat about it.....we'll really have forever to talk about it!

But I'll tell ya what.....I'll give a link to the Catechism of the Catholic Church....it covers the Catholic faith in its entirety.

It will answer ALL of your questions about Catholicism, in a much better way than I can myself - because I am no expert in Scripture and still have much to learn.

I know its not going to lead to you becoming a Catholic, but I hope it will at least clear a few things up for you. An understanding of where we are coming from and why we believe what we believe is all I ask.

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

I appreciate you're prayers mate and I'll be returning the favor.

Its great to see that there are still good Christians out there in the other denominations - even though things like Church attendance are declining.

We're all children of God, doing our best to love & serve him in our lives in the way we know best. Sure, our churches disagree on a few things, and so you and I disagree on a few things, but in the end, we are all heading to the same destination - we will be brothers & sisters in eternity - why not be brothers & sisters in Christ here and now?

Its interesting that you said you came to faith through reason - people like our friend katie say that us Christians refuse to see reason. I guess people like C.S. Lewis were crazy too, right katie?

 

[katie_tully]

CS Lewis didn't exactly fall into Christianity through reason, considering he was a Christian to begin with and only rediscovered it in his adulthood.

He wrote the Chronicles of Narnia. I don't know, was he crazy?

EDIT: After doing a quick read on Lewis, I wouldn't say he went back to Christianity through reason either. I see him as a complex person with questions he needed answers to and for him religion was it.
It doesn't work for me because I only found more questions when I went looking for answers - and isn't it a no no of the Church to question it to begin with?

 

[jdevlin]

AHAHAHA! Quote of the century. That's going to be at the end of all my posts if thats ok with u

And just a quick question for the christians here. Is the common belief that sin is a result of temptations of Satan, or is it more to do with being given a choice and ultimately the souls worthy of heaven are sorted from those who are unworthy? Because I choose to believe the latter but it doesn't seem to be the prevailing idea among the christians I've talked or listened to over the years. If you blame the devil for temptations and sin I see that as passing the buck - blaming someone else for your faults. Basically I'm asking, what's the true or more correct christian belief in this? A lot of this info has come from church group visits to our school, and those people don't even accept the theory of evolution.

Ok... there's actually a miriad of questions here...

1) For starters alot of Christians except Evolution, so don't think that all are mindless nuts.

2) Sin is seperation from God... Satan entices us yes, but it is our fault for falling into temptation that is our sin. So essentially both are right, but only half the story. A part of a growing faith in Jesus is to learn to control urges through prayer - of course you can't control them all, but learning to control them is a part of maturity.

 

[katie_tully]

So can I ask how sin works? Like everybody is a sinner, but today all I've really done is drink a lot of tea and coffee and caught up on uni stuff.
It makes me a bit sad to be called a sinner when I haven't done anything sinful today. Or am I always sinful because I am always in a state of rejection?

 

[jdevlin]

I wonder if now you can see further evidence that perhaps the bible isn't so clear?

I will point out to you that the Catholic or higher Orthodox Churches are the only "denominations" of Christianity that talks about Purgatory (I'm a bit Hazy, but i think the Russian Orthodox is the same).

Like I've said... If you read the whole bible in context, and take each verse as a part of that context, then the meaning is very clear. What is unclear is how you should act on those meanings, and I would say is because of a few things. One - everyone is different and responds to situations differently, some face problems head on, other flee from trouble. Two - the bible doesn't give description of every little event and how to respond to it, it leaves Christians to follow Gods word no matter what. Three - If you're following Gods word then the way you respond to everything is going to be with love and kindness... unless you're responding in righteous Anger...

 

[katie_tully]

.. unless you're responding in righteous Anger.

I find Cardinal Pell to be in a constant state of self righteousness. I really dislike that man.

 

[jdevlin]

So can I ask how sin works? Like everybody is a sinner, but today all I've really done is drink a lot of tea and coffee and caught up on uni stuff.
It makes me a bit sad to be called a sinner when I haven't done anything sinful today. Or am I always sinful because I am always in a state of rejection?

Sin seperation from God... seperation from God occurs when you turn your back on him... you turn your back on God when you do not follow the rules he has set out for you. These rules being immortalised in the 10 commandments, and more specifically the two great commandments Jesus talks about in the Gospels.

Sin is also a very large array of thinks. According to Jesus, looking at someone lustfully is the same as adultery because in your mind you've had sex with that person. Unrighteous Anger at someone is the same as murder.
Avoiding the truth for your own gain is lying...

We did an exercise once, where our youth-leader ran us through a list of things... If we had done any of them, according to the bible we had sinned (he used only the two great commandments to write the list) and that was from 8:30 wake up to 11:00 in the morning... and I had probably sinned at least 20 times, and that is what i could remember myself doing... Just obeying the first commandment is ridiculous - love the Lord your with ALL you heart, with ALL your soul, and with ALL your mind... it's hard... and that's why we need Jesus, because we can't do it.

You are not sinful because you're in a state of rejection... (then again rejecting God is essentially a sin - first commandment)... Sin is the action of rejection... people can't really point the finger and call you a sinner, that's hypocritical. "For all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God" - fudge I think that's Romans 8... I've gone blank, not enough sleep... but I hope that answers your question

 

[jdevlin]

I find Cardinal Pell to be in a constant state of self righteousness. I really dislike that man.

I sometimes find him frustrating too...

but remember self-rigteousness is different to righteous anger

 

[jdevlin]

Like I said... not everyone who is abused or lacks attention becomes homosexual, that would make no sense... 1 in 3 women would end up Lesbians...

Like i said, there isn't any genetic evidence yet for it... but just as some people are genetically predicated to depression, some could be predicated for homosexuality...

It sounds aweful, and to noone it feels like they became that way...

I didn't say it had to be a father who's left, just a lack of a parental figure... friends can also be considered parental figures in the sense that you go to them for advice...

I don't know about you, but there are plenty of kids who grow up with very few friends of the same sex... there's a lack of "parental" guidance there...

And also as i said, this is what I think... there is no hardline evidence either way... I'm just giving facts

Enteebee - It's not a psychologists and moralist Christian standpoint I'm coming from... this is what my mother, who has been counselling teen for twenty years, has told me...

That she can not remember one homosexual child who has come to her, who after some length of counselling or after very little counselling, has not had either one of these outcomes...

To me, that is evidence. My mother is not one to distort the facts... and that is twenty YEARS of evidence for you...

Now, like I've said, there is no hardline evidence either way... and If there came along some scientific proof that it was a genetical predication, then I will happily accept it... for now though, the evidence in favour of psychological trauma is quite substantial, so that to me is the best explanation.

Now on the issue of those who might just choose to be gay, or those gay without abuse, my best guess is this... and yes this is just a theory, and it's a very Christian theory, but remember it's just a theory - so don't get in a jiffy about it...

While it is not yet a perfectly acceptable lifestyle (because sadly there is still heavy discrimination against homosexuals), it is not like it is illegal anymore (except in Tanzania). In a christian sense, this means that it is much easier to "fall in" to homosexuality. Someone has a few urges, and because they want to our and are perfectly within their rights in society, they act on those urges... and they discover they like it... my one piece of evidence for this is the prevalence of bisexuality in society. But anyways... just a theory like i said...

 

[jdevlin]

I see where you're coming from buddy.....but this debate will go on forever....maybe when (God-willing) we are enjoying our eternal reward we can have a little chat about it.....we'll really have forever to talk about it!

But I'll tell ya what.....I'll give a link to the Catechism of the Catholic Church....it covers the Catholic faith in its entirety.

It will answer ALL of your questions about Catholicism, in a much better way than I can myself - because I am no expert in Scripture and still have much to learn.

I know its not going to lead to you becoming a Catholic, but I hope it will at least clear a few things up for you. An understanding of where we are coming from and why we believe what we believe is all I ask.

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

I appreciate you're prayers mate and I'll be returning the favor.

Its great to see that there are still good Christians out there in the other denominations - even though things like Church attendance are declining.

We're all children of God, doing our best to love & serve him in our lives in the way we know best. Sure, our churches disagree on a few things, and so you and I disagree on a few things, but in the end, we are all heading to the same destination - we will be brothers & sisters in eternity - why not be brothers & sisters in Christ here and now?

Its interesting that you said you came to faith through reason - people like our friend katie say that us Christians refuse to see reason. I guess people like C.S. Lewis were crazy too, right katie?

Don't worry, I'm not looking for a debate... I just want to understand...

I'm glad you see what I mean by brothers in Christ... all denomination is, is a style of worship...

Thanks, I'll read the Catechism at some stage after my trials...

Yes faith through reason is interesting... you should try it sometime... testing your faith at every angle is refreshing and everything falls much more clearly into perspective.

 

[katie_tully]

I watched a documentary once on twins, where one was homosexual and one was heterosexual. One boy had boy stuff in his room and the other boy just wanted pink and fairies scattered in his room.

I wasn't going anywhere with that...it was just an interesting watch.

 

[Tulipa]

Hey.

One thing:

It's not a psychologists and moralist Christian standpoint I'm coming from... this is what my mother, who has been counselling teen for twenty years, has told me...

That she can not remember one homosexual child who has come to her, who after some length of counselling or after very little counselling, has not had either one of these outcomes...

To me, that is evidence. My mother is not one to distort the facts... and that is twenty YEARS of evidence for you...

She's a counsellor. Teenagers with problems go to her. Thus any kids who are gay and are counselled by her are automatically going to have problems. It's not a fact, it's a result of the work she does.

 

[jdevlin]

Hey.

One thing:

She's a counsellor. Teenagers with problems go to her. Thus any kids who are gay and are counselled by her are automatically going to have problems. It's not a fact, it's a result of the work she does.

Fair enough...

But one of the reasons kids go is because they are Gay and finding it hard to cope it what is essentially a very homosexual world... not the other way around... well at least that's the impression I get...

I think I saw that doco katie... wasn't there a bit about them being very different psychologically though? Like one had always been an extravert and the other an introvert?

But it does make a point though... this is not an exact science, because if they knew what caused it I imagine that there would be a few confused homosexuals who would be itching for treatment so they could feel normal and fit it...

 

[katie_tully]

And whilst we try and pinpoint the origins of homosexuality, we keep forgetting that it is rampant in nature.
In dogs, humping a member of the same sex is an asserting dominance. There are countless other examples, but my head hurts so if people want links they have to wait until this coffee diffuses through my veins.

 

[robbie1]

I find Cardinal Pell to be in a constant state of self righteousness. I really dislike that man.

Cardinal Pell is a brilliant man.

He stands up for what is right and isn't afraid to do so - exactly the type of leadership we need in the Church.

I have met him personally and I have read much of his work - truly a remarkable man.

 

[jdevlin]

And whilst we try and pinpoint the origins of homosexuality, we keep forgetting that it is rampant in nature.
In dogs, humping a member of the same sex is an asserting dominance. There are countless other examples, but my head hurts so if people want links they have to wait until this coffee diffuses through my veins.

Yes, but Dogs also eat their own faeces...

No seriously... That's one of the interesting things though, from memory don't we know the genetic reason for most of the homosexuality in the animal kingdom? I can't remember...

 

[jdevlin]

Cardinal Pell is a brilliant man.

He stands up for what is right and isn't afraid to do so - exactly the type of leadership we need in the Church.

I have met him personally and I have read much of his work - truly a remarkable man.

Yes he is an amazing man, but I think the way he has dealt with all the media attention recently has been a little inappropriate... e.g. running away from the Chasers wasn't the best idea...

 

[Tulipa]

Yes he is an amazing man, but I think the way he has dealt with all the media attention recently has been a little inappropriate... e.g. running away from the Chasers wasn't the best idea...

Being a self righteous idiot isn't that great of an idea either.