Another school shooting in the US (2 Viewers)

[Surly Duff]

i dont know. the likelihood of a gun shooting in a school is greater in america than in australia. I mean i have yet to hear of a gun shooting in a school in Australia but i have heard of about 5 or so in America.

Because there's 15 times as many schools?

5 might sound like a small number but compare it to other developed nations, england?

* In 1998, a study conducted jointly by statisticians from the U.S. Department of Justice and the University of Cambridge in England found that most crime is now worse in England than in the United States.

* "You are more likely to be mugged in England than in the United States," stated the Reuters news agency in summarizing the study. "The rate of robbery is now 1.4 times higher in England and Wales than in the United States, and the British burglary rate is nearly double America's."6 The murder rate in the United States is reportedly higher than in England, but according to the DOJ study, "the difference between the [murder rates in the] two countries has narrowed over the past 16 years."7

* The United Nations confirmed these results in 2000 when it reported that the crime rate in England is higher than the crime rates of 16 other industrialized nations, including the United States.8

http://www.gunowners.org/sk0703.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/uk/newsid_1440000/1440764.stm

obviously american are bunch of psychos considering the kind of stuff they come up with. guns for self-defence - lol.

As opposed to ...nothing... for self defense?

 

[syera]

it has nothing to do with Muslims...so why are you bitching about it?

your as annoying as Kevin Rudd

i was making a valid point.

 

[scarybunny]

have you ever been to the US?

there are 300 million people in the country. not every school has psychos just itching to gun someone down.

i've got a whole load of family over there and not one of them has ever been affected by a gun crime. that being said about half of them have guns in their house for hunting. (which i don't agree with)

it's unfortunate when this shit happens but it doesn't mean that the USA is the most dangerous country in the world.

this is just sad too cause it was nothing really to do with the school system or any students.

(Because my second comment was meant to be taken entirely literally and seriously.)

Yes I have been to the states. I've been to an American high school and I'm well aware that they are not full of psychos. Hell, I walked around between classes and didn't get shanked or anything.

Ehk the rest of anything I have to write just sounds like Bowling for Columbine. Darn foxtel and its constant showing of it.

 

[Gowr]

i was making a valid point.

What valid point exactly? Looks to me like you are simply trying to perpetuate a victim mentality while whinging to gain sympathy.

I am sorry if that sounds harsh, but your argument is simply that if the shooter was a muslim there would be a media uproar.

First of all, looking at recent evidence, that is a load of crap. Remember the attack on the Seattle Jewish Federation on 28th of July? Where the muslim attacker shot 6 people, using a young girl as a hostage, because he was 'upset about what was going on in Israel'. Where was the media vilification of muslims? Where were the speeches on the war on terror from Bush that you predicted? As you are well aware, none of this happenned. In fact, the media attempted to cover up both the religion and motive of the attacker. So you are wrong on that account.

Secondly, the only reason Bush would make a speech is if the attack was in fact pertinent to the war on terror, ie. that the attacker was killing in the name of Islam. In which case such a speech would be completely justified. However, that was not the case.

Hence, you had no valid point.

Although, a comment on this perceived rise in Islamophobia. If you are so damn worried about it, stop pestering everyone else about being persecuted (pope speech, danish cartoons... do you know how hypocritical it seems to be violent in response to allegations of violence), and, I dunno, stop sympathizing with terrorists (even if YOU don't unfortunately members of your community do). Maybe you could distance the Australian Muslim community from antisemitic radicals like Hileli. Then, voila, the 'persecution' will stop.

 

[HotShot]

Because there's 15 times as many schools?



* In 1998, a study conducted jointly by statisticians from the U.S. Department of Justice and the University of Cambridge in England found that most crime is now worse in England than in the United States.

* "You are more likely to be mugged in England than in the United States," stated the Reuters news agency in summarizing the study. "The rate of robbery is now 1.4 times higher in England and Wales than in the United States, and the British burglary rate is nearly double America's."6 The murder rate in the United States is reportedly higher than in England, but according to the DOJ study, "the difference between the [murder rates in the] two countries has narrowed over the past 16 years."7

* The United Nations confirmed these results in 2000 when it reported that the crime rate in England is higher than the crime rates of 16 other industrialized nations, including the United States.8

http://www.gunowners.org/sk0703.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/uk/newsid_1440000/1440764.stm


As opposed to ...nothing... for self defense?

Again, i have yet to see a school shootin in England??? The crime rates might be higher in England but doesnt in any way show how the english are more psychopathic than the americans.

it was a just a comparison - you have to take into account a whole of lot of shit when you are comparing crime rates. Firstly England is a lot older in terms of the history, it has a higher population density than america which means more people cramped up which could result in higher crime rates. And lastly how accurate are the stats - hardly accurate, i am sure many crimes in the USA are not recorded at all.

Having a resident population of just over 500, and millions of tourists every year, Vatican City has the highest crime rate per capita of any nation on earth, with penal offences at 133.6% in 2002. [1]

wtf oh look the crime rate is the highest in the Vatican city? oh wtf.

The United States is ranked 8th in crime rates regarding murders with firearms.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap-crime-murders-firearms-per-capita

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

so sad...
they didnt tell what religion the man was... surprise surprise.
if he had a Muslim name - the headlines would be quite different.

Bloody hell! Quiet with the constant 'pity the muslims' crap. I'm over in the Islam thread trying to prove that Australian muslims are not idiots or terrorists and we have someone ike you who has to bring religion into anything and everything. This guy wasn't brandishing a cross, the Koran or the Star of David so why the religious whinge?!

And don't call me intolerant because I'd be saying the some thing if you were having a whinge on the part of any religion.


Except of course my religion, the Dolfa. The holy dolphin faeries who created all life.

 

[ur_inner_child]

Just a quick reminder

Honestly guys if your post is content free in relation to the topic at hand, it will be deleted.

This includes personal attacks and name calling. Surely you are all beyond that.

 

[wheredanton]

* In 1998, a study conducted jointly by statisticians from the U.S. Department of Justice and the University of Cambridge in England found that most crime is now worse in England than in the United States.

* "You are more likely to be mugged in England than in the United States," stated the Reuters news agency in summarizing the study. "The rate of robbery is now 1.4 times higher in England and Wales than in the United States, and the British burglary rate is nearly double America's."6 The murder rate in the United States is reportedly higher than in England, but according to the DOJ study, "the difference between the [murder rates in the] two countries has narrowed over the past 16 years."7
?

[SIZE=-1]Lies, damn lies and statistics.[/SIZE]

it has nothing to do with Muslims...so why are you bitching about it?

your as annoying as Kevin Rudd

You're.

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Beslan was all over the news for a number of weeks, not to mention the anniversary which had media coverage and "special from the scene reports" Can I also mention the Moscow theatre seige (as we are comparing Russia and US) that also copped world wide attention, and again condemnation of the Chechyans. American lives are made to look "more precious than non Americans" and "when these things happen it looks as though it shook the world" is because America dominates Media attention, and consequently so damn open about the shit that goes on there.

I know, I was only trying to ridicule typical anti-americans who make judgements and generalization based on a single incident like this. This event although sad; is nothing compared to the severity and gravity of the event in Beslan or Moscow theatre siege or even Port Arthur Massacre in Tasmania.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

[SIZE=-1]Lies, damn lies and statistics.[/SIZE]



You're.

Oh, I see. From now on I'll just post random conjecture (sam, hotshot?) without any evidence.

 

[HotShot]

Oh, I see. From now on I'll just post random conjecture (sam, hotshot?) without any evidence.

wat? wat did i do? i had like only two posts in this thread?

 

[Calculon]

You replied to statistical evidence with "England is older, therefore its crime rate is higher and more people report crimes", without any supporting evidence or feasible links whatsoever. That is what's known as conjecture.

 

[HotShot]

You replied to statistical evidence with "England is older, therefore its crime rate is higher and more people report crimes", without any supporting evidence or feasible links whatsoever. That is what's known as conjecture.

I showed you statiscal evidence of murder rates are higher in america compared to england. Robberies are hardly anything when compared to murders.

The reason that England has higher robbery rates, is the because of the history of England itself. England is a lot older, the country has a long history when compared americas history which basically starts from Columbus.

England is more densely populated country, very high cost living which will mean that more people will be robbers to maintain their standard of living. Statistical evidence doesnt show everything - but you can make it show something completely not related, which you guys have done.

This is in relation to school shootings, not bank robberies or any other form robbery. Stay with the topic and stop providing random stats that and compare to other stats that dont match up.

I suggest u reasearch the history of England and will understand why robbers are so high in numbers.

 

[Aryanbeauty]

I showed you statiscal evidence of murder rates are higher in america compared to england. Robberies are hardly anything when compared to murders.

The reason that England has higher robbery rates, is the because of the history of England itself. England is a lot older, the country has a long history when compared americas history which basically starts from Columbus.

England is more densely populated country, very high cost living which will mean that more people will be robbers to maintain their standard of living. Statistical evidence doesnt show everything - but you can make it show something completely not related, which you guys have done.

This is in relation to school shootings, not bank robberies or any other form robbery. Stay with the topic and stop providing random stats that and compare to other stats that dont match up.

I suggest u reasearch the history of England and will understand why robbers are so high in numbers.

South Africa is a very young nation yet murder, robbery and all crimes are among the higest in the world, so is brazil.

belgium and Netherlands are densly populated yet crime rates are lower compared to England. Both countries are as old as England and the living cost are equally high or more expensive.

 

[HotShot]

South Africa is a very young nation yet murder, robbery and all crimes are among the higest in the world, so is brazil.

belgium and Netherlands are densly populated yet crime rates are lower compared to England. Both countries are as old as England and the living cost are equally high or more expensive.

How is the standard of living in south africa nad brazil - quite bad. The cost of living in both countries compared to England is very very low. Also south africa was a former colony of England...

Belgium and Netherlands have relatively good standard of living. On the america has lower cost of living than England, america has lower population density and is younger than england and yets its crime rates are higher England?

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/press/cjusew96.pr:

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Robbery, assault,
burglary and motor vehicle theft rates are lower
in the United States than they are in England and
Wales, national crime victim surveys conducted in
these countries reveal. However, police
statistics show murder and rape rates higher in
the United States than in England and Wales,
according to a new report by the Bureau of Justice
Statistics (BJS) in the United States Department
of Justice.

tell me isnt a murder, rape more serious crime than simply roberries and common assaults and old school carjacking?

 

[KFunk]

dont know. the likelihood of a gun shooting in a school is greater in america than in australia. I mean i have yet to hear of a gun shooting in a school in Australia but i have heard of about 5 or so in America.

5 might sound like a small number but compare it to other developed nations, england?

obviously american are bunch of psychos considering the kind of stuff they come up with. guns for self-defence - lol.

...

Again, i have yet to see a school shootin in England??? The crime rates might be higher in England but doesnt in any way show how the english are more psychopathic than the americans.

it was a just a comparison - you have to take into account a whole of lot of shit when you are comparing crime rates. Firstly England is a lot older in terms of the history, it has a higher population density than america which means more people cramped up which could result in higher crime rates. And lastly how accurate are the stats - hardly accurate, i am sure many crimes in the USA are not recorded at all.

Try not to use 'what you have heard about' as a reliable measure of things like crime rate. America has roughly 15 times our population. Consider a case where america has twice the rate of school shootings (shootings per 1000) - you would expect to hear about 30 american shootings for every one shooting in Australia. The 30:1 ratio would blow out of proportion a rate which is really only double.

It's silly to say that a given population is more 'psychopathic' than another and even sillier to use something like highschool shootings (or shootings in general) to judge the level of 'psychopathy'. Theft, extortion and violent crimes (not involving shooting) are indicative of pyschopathic tendencies (I have doubts as to whether psychopaths would commit suicide as is often the case in school shootings given the selfish tendencies of the psychopathic personality). Also, as you have pointed out, you have to take multiple factors into account. It is likely that the wide availability of firearms in the US would make a significant contribution to the number of shootings that take place there.

 

[HotShot]

Try not to use 'what you have heard about' as a reliable measure of things like crime rate. America has roughly 15 times our population. Consider a case where america has twice the rate of school shootings (shootings per 1000) - you would expect to hear about 30 american shootings for every one shooting in Australia. The 30:1 ratio would blow out of proportion a rate which is really only double.

It's silly to say that a given population is more 'psychopathic' than another and even sillier to use something like highschool shootings (or shootings in general) to judge the level of 'psychopathy'. Theft, extortion and violent crimes (not involving shooting) are indicative of pyschopathic tendencies (I have doubts as to whether psychopaths would commit suicide as is often the case in school shootings given the selfish tendencies of the psychopathic personality). Also, as you have pointed out, you have to take multiple factors into account. It is likely that the wide availability of firearms in the US would make a significant contribution to the number of shootings that take place there.

Exactly after numerous shootings - you would expect tighter restrictions on the ownership of guns.. but it hasnt happened or if it has the restrictions are not tight enough - its stupid to do the same mistake over and over again and not fix it? one school shoooting is alone huge thing.

Has there been any school shootings in South Africa? Brazil?.??? America has the had the most number school shootings - srs there is a problem there and if does have to do with human brain? which is cleary affect by the social+ economic environment - then why does it happen? obviosly it is a psycopathic problem?

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Exactly after numerous shootings - you would expect tighter restrictions on the ownership of guns.. but it hasnt happened or if it has the restrictions are not tight enough - its stupid to do the same mistake over and over again and not fix it? one school shoooting is alone huge thing.

Has there been any school shootings in South Africa? Brazil?.??? America has the had the most number school shootings - srs there is a problem there and if does have to do with human brain? which is cleary affect by the social+ economic environment - then why does it happen? obviosly it is a psycopathic problem?

You said higher population density in England has to do with high crime rate in england yet higher population density in Belgium or netherland have very low crime rate. Both countries are expensive to live, all have very similar unemployment rate and income. So your reasoning of population density with crime is meaningless. I'd say more crime have more to do with the kind of people living in it. More blacks=more crime(usa,canada), More pakistanis=more crimes(uk), more arabs= more crime(france), more poor=more crime(brazil, sa), more alcoholics=more crime(russia). That uneducated assumption is more valid than your reasoning.

You probably never heard about 2nd amendment of Bill of rights. The gov't surely want to have very tight restrictions of weapons but they have strong opposition from the people, not to talk of amending the constitution especially bill of rights.

Yes those people who committed massacres are psychopath just like suicide bombers in baghdad, Karachi and Jerusalem . The only difference is they have different aims, they don't do it for 72 virgins.

 

[mr EaZy]

the difference between this act is that the victims were special

these kids had never seen tv and were not de-sensitised as we are regarding violence

the psychological trauma is much much worse- kids in third world countries know what guns are

 

[mr EaZy]

the religious argument was valid - u commit a crime like that- and your muslim- you'll be associated with this link to a wider network of similar minded people

suppose this guy was muslim, had the same relationship and same GRUDGE against the amish- would it have been taken the other way?

i dont think it was appropriate to bring this topic into these threads in the first place but since it has carried on:

take for example this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mOtUqT5DHQ&mode=related&search=

or the who entered the al-aqsa mosque in the 80s and gunned down everyone- he travelled all the way from the states!

to what extent has religion played in those acts? (probably none in the 1st one- thats just zionism earning extra cash lol ) but at any rate religion wont be displayed - or will be but in a limited sense- the first clip was removed by fox news... permanently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZDeTQXQImE (american jew's plea for peace)
or like in war, judaism does encourage people to defend themselves as islam does- people go overboard because of nationalism and ignorance and radicalism- so on 2nd thoughts im glad that no jew ever described the war on lebanon as a religious duty... it only led to greater suffering.

for the record- i condemn muslims (and anyone else) killing innocent people

Yes those people who committed massacres are psychopath just like suicide bombers in baghdad, Karachi and Jerusalem . The only difference is they have different aims, they don't do it for 72 virgins.

thats not true either, thats just islamophobic-
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