Any GREEK students (ancient, middle, modern - whatever pops your cork)? (1 Viewer)

[goldendawn]

Χαιρετε!

 

[timobr0]

гιά σού φίλε !!

 

[goldendawn]

гιά σού φίλε !!

Γεια σου! Μαθαινεις Ελληνικα στο Sydney University;

 

[timobr0]

HSC

 

[goldendawn]

haha, awesome. Continuers?

 

[super katie]

woohoo! I agree!

 

[xeuyrawp]

Γεια, καλεσπέρα!
Με λένε Ροβερτακις.
Καλές γιορτές.

(That's all I've got of conversational Greek)

 

[goldendawn]

Γεια, καλεσπέρα!
Με λένε Ροβερτακις.
Καλές γιορτές.

(That's all I've got of conversational Greek)

Μπράβο Ροβερτάκι! Nice, Rob .

'Ομος "καλεσπερα" δεν εχει "ε", εχει "η" - ειναι "καλησπερα". Στην Αρχαία Ελληνικά, "ε" και "η" ήταν /ɛ/. Στην Κοίνη και Νεο Ελληνικά, "η" ειναι /i/.

Where did you learn your conversational Greek? hehe

 

[goldendawn]

Some Greek tongue twisters (thanks to Professor Vras - and to me for the transliterations, ):

Ο ρητωρ ρερητορευε το ρερητορευμενο ρω
(reputed to have been said by Demosthenes) - hence ancient Attic pronunciation:

o rE.taw.r rere.torEue to rere.toreumEno rAW.

NB: "." indicates a long vowel, capitalisation indicates primary stress, "u" is rounded.

Ο παππας ο παχυς εφαγε παχια φακη. Γιατι παπα παχυ εφαγες παχια φακη;

o pAHpahs o pAHchis Efahghe pahchiAH fahkI. YiatI pahpAH pahchI Efahghes pahchiAH fahkI?

NB: "ch" indicates a voiceless velar fricative, e.g - the Scottish ch from "loch", or the German ch from "ich".

My favourite:

Της καρεκλας το ποδαρι ξεκαρεκλοποδαριαστηκε

tIs karEklas to podhAri ksekareklopodariAstike

NB: "dh" indicates a voiced interdental fricative, like "th" from "the" or "thee".


Have fun!

 

[glitterfairy]

woohoo! I agree!

er... me too!

*follows Katie around like a sheep* meeehhhh mehhhhh

 

[goldendawn]

er... me too!

*follows Katie around like a sheep* meeehhhh mehhhhh

Funny you should mention sheep. In ancient Attic plays, sheep sounds are rendered - ᾽βη βη!᾽. Historical linguists use this as evidence that ancient Attic Greek β was pronounced /b/ (voiced bilabial plosive), and η as a mid back vowel - /e/ or possibly /a/ in earlier times. According to them, ancient Athenian sheep should sound like 'Be Be' or 'Bah Bah'. In standard modern Greek, β is pronounced /v/ (voiced labiodental fricative), and η is pronounced as a high front vowel - /i/. So modern Athenian sheep should sound like 'Vi Vi', .

Interestingly, in a couple of modern Greek dialects (particularly in a dialect of Athens called Old Athenian), η was pronounced /e/ well into the modern era.

 

[goldendawn]

Modern Greek Phonology


I'm going to test out some newly acquired linguistics skills to see if I can solve a peculiarity of modern Greek pronunciation. The letter υ is sometimes pronounced /f/ (voiceless labiodental fricative), sometimes pronounced /v/ (voiced labiodental fricative) when it occurs before consonants. For example, in the words Βασιλευς, Ζευς, and ελευθερια it is pronounced /f/, whilst in the words Ευβοια, αυγη and πιστευω, it is pronounced /v/. What determines voicing?

This is what I've come up with:

/υ/ -> [f]/_C (-voiced)
- - - > [v]/elsewhere

If υ occurs before a voiceless consonant, it becomes voiceless - but if it occurs either before a voiced consonant or simply after a vowel (as in πιστευω) it remains voiced. Because voicing occurs in more than one environment, it seems to me that the voiced labiodental fricative is the underlying form.

 

[xeuyrawp]

wakka wakka wakka?

 

[glitterfairy]

Funny you should mention sheep. In ancient Attic plays, sheep sounds are rendered - ᾽βη βη!᾽. Historical linguists use this as evidence that ancient Attic Greek β was pronounced /b/ (voiced bilabial plosive), and η as a mid back vowel - /e/ or possibly /a/ in earlier times. According to them, ancient Athenian sheep should sound like 'Be Be' or 'Bah Bah'. In standard modern Greek, β is pronounced /v/ (voiced labiodental fricative), and η is pronounced as a high front vowel - /i/. So modern Athenian sheep should sound like 'Vi Vi', .

Interestingly, in a couple of modern Greek dialects (particularly in a dialect of Athens called Old Athenian), η was pronounced /e/ well into the modern era.

This sounds a bit like the "bar bar"/"var var" thing we talked about once.

Backstory for those who have just tuned it - I have a reputation for being a giggler. Literally. I was in hysterics the day my ancient history teacher explained to us the origin of the word "Barbarian" (supposedly because the romans thought they were saying "bar-bar-bar-bar-bar").

Barbarian sounds so much better than Varbarian or Varvarian though. The two latter words sound like some sort of wannabe Belgian dessert.

 

[Iron]

Wait for it...


It's all Geek to me (badda-bing)
<exits stage left>

 

[kami]

So modern Athenian sheep should sound like 'Vi Vi', .

*Vivi casts Meteor*

woohoo! I agree!

Me trois!

 

[goldendawn]

This sounds a bit like the "bar bar"/"var var" thing we talked about once.

Backstory for those who have just tuned it - I have a reputation for being a giggler. Literally. I was in hysterics the day my ancient history teacher explained to us the origin of the word "Barbarian" (supposedly because the romans thought they were saying "bar-bar-bar-bar-bar").

Barbarian sounds so much better than Varbarian or Varvarian though. The two latter words sound like some sort of wannabe Belgian dessert.

Not the Romans, the Greeks, hehe!
And well - like it or not, it's been pronounced 'varvaros' for at least the last thousand years, .

 

[goldendawn]

Funky Semantics! "to work" is "to be slavish"!


It's funny how learning two versions of the same language at the same time can confuse the crap out of you. In Modern Greek, the (first person, present, indicative, active) verb 'δουλεύω' means 'I work' - e.g 'δουλεύω στο Ζαχαροπλαστείο᾽ - 'I work at a cake-shop' (I don't, actually). In Ancient Greek, the (first person, present, indicative, active) verb 'δουλεύω' means 'I am being slavish'! Interestingly, the (masculine, singular) noun form, δούλος (slave), is identical in both periods of the language - but also, in Medieval and Modern Greek, often refers to serfs, or even to the 'good worker', as in 'δουλευτής'. In Medieval and Modern Greek there is also another word for slave - 'σκλάβος' -apparently deriving from the word for 'Slav' (from which English also derives the word, I believe).

From the 6th to the 9th centuries AD, the Slavs were colonising the Balkans and parts of Greece. When the Byzantines recaptured the lands settled by the Slavs in Greece, they relocated Slavic communities and used them as pawns in the Byzantine army. Charming.

 

[HBK_9]

Eleftheria Oi Thanatos

 

[goldendawn]

Translation of Mesomedes 'Hymn to the Sun'


I translated the first half of Mesomedes 'Hymn to the Sun' - a piece of music from the second century AD, written with in ancient Greek notation system. Along with 'Hymn to Nemesis' and 'Hymn to the Muse and Kalliope', also by Mesomedes, it is one of the thirty or so surviving pieces of music from Greek antiquity, and one of the most complete.

Original

Χιονοβλεφάρου, πάτερ, Αοῦς
ροδόὲσσαν ός ἄντυγα πώλων
πτανοῖς ὐπ᾽ ἴχνεσσι διώκεις
Χρυσ�*αισιν αγαλόμενος κὀμαις
περὶ νῶτον απρείριτον ουρανοῦ
ακτῖνα πολύστροφον αμπλ�*κων
αἴγας πολυδερκ�*α παγὰν
περὶ γαῖν ἄπασαν ελίσσων
ποταμοὶ δὲ σ�*θεν πυρὸς αμβρότου
τίκτουσιν επήρατον αμ�*ραν.

My Translation

Father of bright eyed dawn, of the rosy horizon,
in your chariot you pursue the footsteps of winged horses
along the sky’s paths, wearing golden tresses,
enwreathing the earth in twining light,
while rivers of immortal fire give life to the day.