Australian Citizenship Test (2 Viewers)

[blakegman]

im gonna have to support william here.

If you don't know when Australia day is, and wouldn't fight for your country in war (a war in the home land, not iraq or some bullshit) then you probably arent the best person to be talking about what makes or doesnt make an australian citizen. if you want to live in it, you should atleast be prepared to defend it, in my opinion at least

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

im gonna have to support william here.

If you don't know when Australia day is, and wouldn't fight for your country in war (a war in the home land, not iraq or some bullshit) then you probably arent the best person to be talking about what makes or doesnt make an australian citizen. if you want to live in it, you should atleast be prepared to defend it, in my opinion at least

i agree with the defence bit. knowing the date of Australia day is not as important as knowing what it's about, however. you can be forgiven for forgetting WHEN it is as long as you know WHAT it is.

 

[ur_inner_child]

HEY! Stop making huge tangents!

Tangent triggering posts deleted (or will be deleted in a few seconds).

 

[el gwapo]

That's true.

My little brother and sister have Australian, Canadian and American citizenship.

However, they cannot have a Canadian passport unless they renounce either the Australian or American passports due to some Canadian law. It depends on the country in terms of everything really.

are you still a citizen of a country if you don't have a passport from that nation?

about the 5 citizenship thing.. I believe you have the option to be either one of those 5 nationalities when you are 18... I guess some allow dual citizenship so there is the option to be 2 of them. I don't think five has ever been done. Though if you're a citizen of a country in the European Union you can screw all the dual citizenship and basically live and work anywhere in the superstate

speaking of Australia Day, didn't the Federal Education minister forget what Australia Day was for? being relatively new here in Australia I find it weird that Australia doesn't have a proper "national day", Federation isn't really celebrated much, i guess it's because it falls on the same day as New Years but there still isn't much hoopla about it compared to Australia Day.

In fact Australia Day doesn't have much First Fleet or Phillip about it either, at least from what I see on the TV and in Sydney. For me Australia Day is/was the last hurrah of holidays before returning to school and watching the cricket.

 

[Tulipa]

are you still a citizen of a country if you don't have a passport from that nation?

Yes...

 

[ari89]

This test has a George Orwell scent to it.... "This is what it is to be Australian... full stop. This is our values... full stop. You will not refer to your own culture... full stop."

You mean after you take the test you lose everything you once knew?
It is a test to become a citizen not limiting how you can act or whether you can come into the country or not. 'Blah blah its Orwellian because *makes up shit*' = best argument ever. I really do see the strong connection you've established to come to that conclusion.

A test is pointless... it doesn't do anything other than denying human being a place to live... that in itself is un-Australian.

How exactly does this occur?
You are aware that you do not have to be a citizen to live in Australia...right?

Australians help each other out, no matter who the person is... unfortunately Howard doesn't realise this because he is... and I stand with this... a pompous ass.

Still don't get what you're on about? Is citizenship of a country you've migrated too a fundamental right? I don't see it impeding on your freedoms or denying you a place to live. I honestly do not see them getting a raw and outragoues deal. If they want citizenship, just like anything in life, it is justified that they put some effort towards it. And one of those efforts which is beneficial to themselves and Australia is understanding the English language. It would help you understand the nation, the way of life and what is happening around you as well as helping you get a job, buying a house, taking out a loan etc.

If you want to bitch about John Howard please think of a reason to do so instead of trying to remotely connect some non-sensical bs to him.

If you really do feel compelled to stand by any opinion based on absolutely nothing and then openly express it, I truly do pity you.

 

[Ademir]

I'm not sure what this test entails exactly, so I won't criticise/support it. But if it has to be taken in English, then I object. I'd also object if it tries to put forward particular religious/political values as correct over other values.

Otherwise, I don't see a huge problem with the idea of a citizenship test.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

But if it has to be taken in English, then I object. I'd also object if it tries to put forward particular religious/political values as correct over other values.

You don't have any business becoming a citizen of any country if you can't speak the language at least enough to complete a simple multiple choice test. I'm not going to argue this point. Anyone who disagrees is wrong. This issue need not be discussed any further.

I'd also object if it tries to put forward particular religious/political values as correct over other values.

It does put some values over other values and that is exactly what it should do. The people of a country (and their representatives being the government) have a right to decide what values are acceptable and what values are not acceptable. We aren't abducting people from foreign countries and forcing them to become Australia citizens. If they don't like the values, if they want to continue to believe women are inferior or any number of other things that may be acceptable in other countries but that aren't here, then they can not come here.

 

[banco55]

I'm not sure what this test entails exactly, so I won't criticise/support it. But if it has to be taken in English, then I object. I'd also object if it tries to put forward particular religious/political values as correct over other values.

Otherwise, I don't see a huge problem with the idea of a citizenship test.

How dare they impose their views on new citizens by privileging democracy over facism and theocracy.

 

[ari89]

I'm not sure what this test entails exactly, so I won't criticise/support it. But if it has to be taken in English, then I object. I'd also object if it tries to put forward particular religious/political values as correct over other values.

Otherwise, I don't see a huge problem with the idea of a citizenship test.

I think if it wasn't in English, the native language of the land, it would eliminate the point of getting citizenship. Citizenship is symbolic, in a sense, of joining the nation. We have freedom of belief and the government knows they can't enforce values onto people, however, what is so wrong about informing them of the history and values that Australia was formed on?

As I said earlier, having it in English acts as an incentive for the people to learn English. This benefits them both socially and economically whilst eliminating the sense of isolation that comes with being in a foreign environment.

When my grandparents came to Australia they had to attend English classes. I've talked to them about their moving to Australia and they are glad that they learnt English. It helped them overall. They were able to communicate to their employers, were more attractive for jobs and eventually started their own retail business. If they hadn't understood the English language much of what they have achieved within their lifetime would not have been possible.

Would you like to explain why you object to it being in English and testing the knowledge of current and past Australian values? When you take a test at school would you complain because you didn't agree with the answers and rush to some accusation of xenophobia or prejudice against you?

 

[Ademir]

I'll glady respond to the criticism I've gotten, though I think some of it has been unjustified and put words in my mouth.

Firstly, the English thing.

I do think everyone should strive to learn English. Particularly since every immigrant gets 510 hours (I think?) free tuition. It all depends on the level of sophistication required in the test. If it's straightforward stuff, then I'm all for it. But if it's heavy on political/legal terms, then I probably wouldn't agree to it. Some sections of society (read: old people) probably have little use for English fluency. Denying them citizenship because they don't understand semi-jargon probably isn't too fair, as long as they can interact with society. Once again, I don't know what's in the test so I'm reserving judgement.

As for the values thing, it also depends what exactly those questions are. It depends how they're worded. My main concern is the test being used to propagate views like "Islam is evil", "Jews are evil", "Aboriginal land rights claims are unjust", "Communism is evil", "Western values are the best values", "marriage is only for a man and woman" etc. People have a right to their own moral/political/religious beliefs and as long as they agree to act in accordance with Australian law, I don't think they should be denied citizenship because they hold non-mainstream views, or in some cases, views that a conservative government might hold.

 

[scarybunny]

I don't think old old old people have to do the test.

The test itself seems to be pretty straightforward. Learn basic english, read the little booklet and answer the questions based on this information. A fairly tiny amount of effort, really. You don't need to hold the values mentioned in the test, you just need to know that these are mainstream values in Australian society. If we're being really optimistic we can say that maybe it'll help people be more aware of their rights.

I do like that it encourages migrants to learn english. It's such a basic necessary skill if you're going to live here long-term. By all means keep your first language at home and in your community, but you're going to need english if you want to function at all in wider society.

 

[ari89]

As for the values thing, it also depends what exactly those questions are. It depends how they're worded. My main concern is the test being used to propagate views like "Islam is evil", "Jews are evil", "Aboriginal land rights claims are unjust", "Communism is evil", "Western values are the best values", "marriage is only for a man and woman" etc. People have a right to their own moral/political/religious beliefs and as long as they agree to act in accordance with Australian law, I don't think they should be denied citizenship because they hold non-mainstream views, or in some cases, views that a conservative government might hold.

How would a 20 question test change the entire world view of people? How would they possibly force people to take on those values and who is stopping them from exercising their moral/political/religious freedoms?

The test is not a personal reflection, it asks about Australian values which among them are the issues you have in question. The style of questions include:

Which one of these values is important in modern Australia? (Everyone has equality of opportunity)

In Australia, everyone is free to practise the religion of their choice, or practise no religion: true of false? (true)

Which day of the year is Australia Day? (January 26)

Australian citizens aged 18 years or over are required to enrol on the electoral register: true or false? (true)


Why would the government even attempt to propagate that "Islam is evil", "Jews are evil", "Aboriginal land rights claims are unjust" especially over such a publicised and controversial test? Especially when they are totally irrelevant...

 

[ari89]

I don't think old old old people have to do the test.

Yep,

The following persons are not required to sit a test:

• those aged under 18, or
• those aged 60 and over, or
• those who suffer from a substantial impairment or loss of hearing, speech or sight, or
• those who suffer from a permanent physical or mental incapacity which means you are not capable of understanding the nature of your application, ...

 

[iamsickofyear12]

People have a right to their own moral/political/religious beliefs and as long as they agree to act in accordance with Australian law, I don't think they should be denied citizenship because they hold non-mainstream views, or in some cases, views that a conservative government might hold.

Just because they obey the law doesn't mean there won't be other issues because they have different values.

EDIT:
Fuck that. We don't have to be considerate of other peoples values. We get to decide who becomes a citizen and who doesn't. We get to decide what values are acceptable and what values are unacceptable. Yes people have a right to their own moral/political/religious beliefs... but they don't necessarily have a right to come to Australia with those beliefs.

 

[PrinceHarry]

Exactly if they do not like the culture and prevailing social values in Australia, they can find and establish their own colony somewhere else. All these people coming from Africa or middle east or some 3rd world trash country have no rights to criticise the rules imposed by its owners to become one of them.

Incidentally, I wonder why ONLY muslims complain about Citizenship tests in UK, Netherlands and Germany but not other communities? Why do they have so much trouble than other communities in passing or trying to pass such a simple test. Just a thought.

 

[ari89]

Exactly if they do not like the culture and prevailing social values in Australia, they can find and establish their own colony somewhere else. All these people coming from Africa or middle east or some 3rd world trash country have no rights to criticise the rules imposed by its owners to become one of them.

Incidentally, I wonder why ONLY muslims complain about Citizenship tests in UK, Netherlands and Germany but not other communities? Why do they have so much trouble than other communities in passing or trying to pass such a simple test. Just a thought.

Could be the whole wanting to instate sharia law worldwide

 

[Ademir]

With the way you described the test Ari, I agree. Nothing is wrong with it.

However, I don't agree with the rest of you guys' posts.

You get to decide what values I should hold?

I happen to be Muslim, but not practicing. I'm not sure I believe in god at all. I don't follow 99% of the traditional customs. I am also not an Arab, or a terrorist.

I happen to be left, maybe even far left, in my views. Probably not what the mainstream of society holds.

I agree on equality for everyone however, and all the Australian values of mateship, letting everyone have a go, etc.

I'm a citizen since I was 5 years old. I guess I should leave though, cos I don't agree with everyone here that Muslims are inherently evil.

 

[Dartarin]

Damn Immagants need learn English to get good here, otherwise they don't get along with us well, if work need be, then they should learn the language. And them retards who get exempt from the test, they is need to do it too, No getting around it, you hear. The deaf should have English-Sign languagers to help them too. And the old and young are not stupid they is should do it too.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

However, I don't agree with the rest of you guys' posts.

You get to decide what values I should hold?

No... We get to decide what values you should hold if you want to become an Australian citizen. If you disagree with this you can go back to wherever you are originally from (or even continue living here but not as a citizen).