Australian Citizenship Test (2 Viewers)

[Ademir]

No... We get to decide what values you should hold if you want to become an Australian citizen. If you disagree with this you can go back to wherever you are originally from (or even continue living here but not as a citizen).

I can see where you're coming from, but I don't agree. If someone follows the law, why should they be forced to believe what mainstream society believes? Indeed, what is the purpose of free thought and opinion if you HAVE to hold a particular point of view or else risk not being allowed to be a complete member of Australia? I see something inherently contradictory with that way of thinking.

Just out of interest, what exactly would you consider to be "Australian" values?

 

[iamsickofyear12]

I can see where you're coming from, but I don't agree. If someone follows the law, why should they be forced to believe what mainstream society believes? Indeed, what is the purpose of free thought and opinion if you HAVE to hold a particular point of view or else risk not being allowed to be a complete member of Australia? I see something inherently contradictory with that way of thinking.

Just out of interest, what exactly would you consider to be "Australian" values?

Free thought is only acceptable within certain boundaries.

I'm not getting into an argument about what is considered an Australian value.

 

[trisburger]

No... We get to decide what values you should hold if you want to become an Australian citizen. If you disagree with this you can go back to wherever you are originally from (or even continue living here but not as a citizen).

But that is such a narrowminded view! what gives us the right to decide what values you should hold if you want to become an australian citizen? Everyone in this country is a result of immigration. even aborigines came here from asia. Who has the right to impose their views on others?? The whole point of a democracy is that everyone gets a say. Anyone who wants to live in Australia has the right to as long as they aren't going to harm others.

when people talk about "Australian values" they are being narrowminded. What is australia? It's a melting pot of various races. and different races and religions that exist here have different values. As long as they obey the law, which everyone is allowed to have a say in, they have a right to be here.

this new citizenship test is disgusting. It's WAP all over again and it's sick

 

[sabira001]

I believe that there is nothing wrong with the test, other than that it is essentially pointless. 20 questions which you could rote learn, hardly accomplishes anything. Not only that, but questions which regard absolutely irrelevant issues will not help citizens-to-be. Even with the concern of learning english in regard to being a citizen, what is the difference between being a PR not knowing english, and being a citizen not knowing english? After all, the discussion here has been based on the social convenience of knowing english.

What concerns me though, the views and values of particular people here. I do agree with trisburger that it is WAP all over again. Not only with the government, but with the people.

I'm sure that most of you could remember year 10 (where I am now) and the History lessons on Migrants and Aborigines. My class half sat in shock as we learnt about Assimilation and Integration. This is bearing a strong resemblance. 'You must learn our values', 'You must learn our language'... 'You must know our flowers'. It is the values of some people who are citizens that should be reconsidered.

 

[ari89]

What concerns me though, the views and values of particular people here. I do agree with trisburger that it is WAP all over again. Not only with the government, but with the people.

How is it White Australia Policy all over again?
If you're in year 10 and think this is comparable to the White Australia Policy I do hope you check your notes before your exams.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

But that is such a narrowminded view! what gives us the right to decide what values you should hold if you want to become an australian citizen? Everyone in this country is a result of immigration. even aborigines came here from asia. Who has the right to impose their views on others?? The whole point of a democracy is that everyone gets a say. Anyone who wants to live in Australia has the right to as long as they aren't going to harm others.

when people talk about "Australian values" they are being narrowminded. What is australia? It's a melting pot of various races. and different races and religions that exist here have different values. As long as they obey the law, which everyone is allowed to have a say in, they have a right to be here.

this new citizenship test is disgusting. It's WAP all over again and it's sick

What do you mean what gives us the right...? We live here, we are citizens, this is our country - that means we get to make decisions on things like what values we believe to be acceptable.

No one is imposing their views on anyone. People are being given a choice - come here and accept our values or live somewhere else and believe whatever you want. Yes it is a democracy, and every citizen say, but people who aren't citizens yet don't have a say.

No. Living in Australia and becoming a citizen is not a right.

Different people in Australia do have different values but they are mostly similar and compatible. We are happy to have people come here who have similar and compatible values.

It has nothing to do with the law because people don't have a right to be here. We can choose whatever grounds we want to restrict immigration.

It's nothing at all like the white Australia policy.

 

[Ademir]

What do you mean what gives us the right...? We live here, we are citizens, this is our country - that means we get to make decisions on things like what values we believe to be acceptable.

No one is imposing their views on anyone. People are being given a choice - come here and accept our values or live somewhere else and believe whatever you want. Yes it is a democracy, and every citizen say, but people who aren't citizens yet don't have a say.

No. Living in Australia and becoming a citizen is not a right.

Different people in Australia do have different values but they are mostly similar and compatible. We are happy to have people come here who have similar and compatible values.

It has nothing to do with the law because people don't have a right to be here. We can choose whatever grounds we want to restrict immigration.

It's nothing at all like the white Australia policy.

Why don't you want to get into an arguement about Australian values? Is it because you could possibly find that not everyone shares the same values?

It's funny how you claim this test exists to instill "correct" values and promote democracy and etc. while at the same time there is something inherently fascistic about saying "the country believes this and this is what you will believe or else you will be considered a socially undesirable person and exempt from citizenship". It reeks of One Nation.

It's true state sovereignty gives Australia the right to enforce whatever immigration laws it sees fit. That doesn't make it right, though. Particularly when most of the world sees this country as in violation of international law in terms of asylum seekers.

 

[banco55]

Why don't you want to get into an arguement about Australian values? Is it because you could possibly find that not everyone shares the same values?

It's funny how you claim this test exists to instill "correct" values and promote democracy and etc. while at the same time there is something inherently fascistic about saying "the country believes this and this is what you will believe or else you will be considered a socially undesirable person and exempt from citizenship". It reeks of One Nation.

It's true state sovereignty gives Australia the right to enforce whatever immigration laws it sees fit. That doesn't make it right, though. Particularly when most of the world sees this country as in violation of international law in terms of asylum seekers.

On the topic of facism do you think it would have been illegitimate for Australia to say in the 1930's that it wouldn't allow people who were active members of facist groups to immigrate here?

 

[iamsickofyear12]

Why don't you want to get into an arguement about Australian values? Is it because you could possibly find that not everyone shares the same values?

It's funny how you claim this test exists to instill "correct" values and promote democracy and etc. while at the same time there is something inherently fascistic about saying "the country believes this and this is what you will believe or else you will be considered a socially undesirable person and exempt from citizenship". It reeks of One Nation.

It's true state sovereignty gives Australia the right to enforce whatever immigration laws it sees fit. That doesn't make it right, though. Particularly when most of the world sees this country as in violation of international law in terms of asylum seekers.

...because it's a stupid argument. No matter what I say you will be able to say I am wrong because you know 3 people that don't believe the same thing. It is obvious what is not an Australian value and if you can't see that you are an absolute moron. If you want to argue about it then argue with yourself because I'm not getting involved.

We have a right to decide what people and values we want in Australia.

The responsibility of the government is to do what's best for its people. What's best for the Australian people is not letting a whole lot of people with incompatible values to become citizens. So it does make it right.

 

[Fish Sauce]

Has anyone arguing that this test is the devil even read the list of questions? Bloody hell.

I just went on the website and ten random questions were:

1.What are the animals on the Australian coat of arms?

kangaroo and eagle
kangaroo and shark
kangaroo and emu
kangaroo and ostrich
2. What is the population of Australia?

over 20 million.
15 million.
30 million.
5 million.
3. Who was the first prime minister of Australia?

Robert Fitzroy
Louis Stevenson
Edmund Barton
Sir John MacKenzie
4. Gallipoli invasion took place on
April 25, 1915
April 25, 1925
April 15, 1910
April 25, 1920
5. What was the name of Captain Cook's ship?

Bounty
Discovery
Endeavour
Victoria
6. What is celebrated on Australia Day?

the discovery of Australia
the victory in the war against Germany
the independence from the United Kingdom
the landing of the First Fleet at Sydney Cove
7. What is the second line of Advance Australia Fair?

We'll toil with hearts and hands
For we are young and free
We've boundless plains to share
For loyal sons beyond the seas
8. Give three Australian colloquialisms for swimming suit

budgie smugglers, cossies, swimmers
budgies cossers, toggie batties, swimmy budgers
togs, bummies, sossies
swommies, cossies, mugglers
9. Name the highest court of the land

the High Court
the Supreme Court
the Constitutional Tribunal
the Royal Upper Court
10. On what date did Australia become a nation?

January 1, 1801
January 1, 1910
January 1, 1901
January 1, 1900


None of them are asking people to give up their values, just to have a fucking clue about the country they want to become a CITIZEN of. Not a permanent resident (which they are able to remain and live in the country), but a member of the country. I got ten out of ten in less than a minute and there's a whole heap of stuff around to help people prepare for the test - basically for free, and even the one that costs money refunds if you send a picture of you at your citizenship ceremony - so it isn't a problem. I don't think any of those questions are offensive or exlusive, they're just trying to make sure people have a basic understanding of the history of the nation. White Australia Policy my ass.

 

[Ademir]

Yep I saw the questions earlier and I've agreed that nothing is wrong with the test. But the discussion has evolved beyond that.

Banco, the question is out of context. In the 1930s people suppressed fascist views more out of a fear of traitors and Nazi sympathisers assisting Hitler than a hatred of other types of values. I think the impending threat of a world controlled by the Nazi regime is slightly more severe than a Sudanese man not being able to speak English.

Also, I might add any test is probably useless. Anyone with a brain could probably lie on the test if they really wanted to.

 

[sabira001]

How is it White Australia Policy all over again?
If you're in year 10 and think this is comparable to the White Australia Policy I do hope you check your notes before your exams.

Comparable not by the official government policy, but by the views and values of the public at the time. I'm saying that the way the people see these migrants is similar to the way people regarded migrants during the Assimilation/Integration periods. It is much more civil than those periods obviously but I still feel as though we have jumped back a few decades in our beliefs.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

We get to decide what values you should hold if you want to become an Australian citizen. If you disagree with this you can go back to wherever you are originally from (or even continue living here but not as a citizen).

That's interesting, you lived here first so you get to decide what people need to know to be citizens, right?

Well by that logic your dumb ass should have to learn the answers to some of these questions:

1. The late Mac Silva was famous for playing what?

a) flute
b) tennis
c) drums
d) golf

2. If someone referred to you as “Binghi”, would it mean....

a) you’re white
b) like a brother
c) you’re a baker
d) you’ve got dough

3. If you saw a gungibal, would you be looking at a....

(a) soldier
(b) policeman
(c) centrelink officer
(d) gunsmith

4. Dr. Ruby Langford Ginibi is....

(a) a Koori anthropologist
(b) a film producer
(c) a newspaper editor
(d) an author

5. If you were called a Gubba, would it mean you were a....

(a) white person
(b) brother
(c) Koori Elder
(d) government official

6. Narwan is....

(a) a narwhal
(b) a political party
(c) a football team
(d) a mythical being

7. Which is the odd one out?

(a) Wiradjuri
(b) Thungutti
(c) Womboin
(d) Gomilaroi

8. A Koori’s meat is....

(a) a get together
(b) a leg of lamb
(c) sex appeal
(d) a totem

9. Where does Nathan Blacklock come from originally?
(a) Moree
(b) Boggabilla
(c) Tingha
(d) Guyra

10. From what language does the word ‘Munyarl’ come from?
(a) Yuin
(b) Wonnarua
(c) Bundjalung
(d) Thungutti

11. Who is Michael O’Loughlin?
(a) A NSL player
(b) A NRL footballer
(c) An AFL player
(d) A NBL player

12. If you were playing ‘coon-can’, would you be playing
(a) a card game
(b) the spoons
(c) a children’s game
(d) a musical instrument made out of cans


Got the idea yeah? How many did you know?

 

[Ademir]

^ Lmao.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

That's interesting, you lived here first so you get to decide what people need to know to be citizens, right?

Unless you have the ability to just come and take the place over. Then you don't have to answer anything.

 

[ari89]

Comparable not by the official government policy, but by the views and values of the public at the time. I'm saying that the way the people see these migrants is similar to the way people regarded migrants during the Assimilation/Integration periods. It is much more civil than those periods obviously but I still feel as though we have jumped back a few decades in our beliefs.

No. If you view migrants in a way which is 'comparable' to the White Australia policy you are pretty disturbed in the head. Yes, I couldn't think of a less vulgar term.
I had no idea that the mainstream public today viewed that "The doctrine of the equality of man was never intended to apply to the equality of the Englishman and the Chinaman." Did you?

I've never seen any civil unrest about China town and how we should assimilate everyone there. I've seen many many many people go there to enjoy the cultural feel that they harbour, not to complain of the moral injustice in allowing groups to practice their own culture. I personally find it offensive if they've been in Australia for 20 years and don't know a word of English and I'm sure many do but I don't see that constituting 'white Australia Policy'.

You might not want to admit this but a high prevalence of racism does exist in society, which you still being young (yes, I know I'm still young but in 3 years the world can look very different) may not know. Now, to say that we have now "jumped back a few decade in our belief" is truly outrageous. 30 years ago racism wasn't explicitly illegal in many senses and the population of 'non-whites' was much lower than it is today. Simple logic of the fact that it has been legislated against, the non-white population has increased and therefore been exposed to more people and the acceptance by liberal city folk dictates a decline. (Not forgetting that most non-whites, who make up the larger population of Australia, do not hate themselves). This means we wouldn't go back to the 70's and pre-70 era unless we tried real hard by indoctrinating archaic conservative racial views, exterminated a few races, and cloned much of regional Australia.

There will always be people who hold a racist view of some things but if a decrease in that and acceptance of other cultures is prevalent and growing how is it comparable to a time where immigration was abhorred and a fundamental racist belief was inequality between the races.
If this is unable to address your point please go further into it. What period are we back into with out beliefs and what exactly are those beliefs that we are now using? The last time a true racial comment was used against me was by an old man who is probably still holding onto the views that were prevalent in the 70's which certainly are not core values today. And I would know how racist people are today - I sell dirt bikes

 

[sabira001]

There will always be people who hold a racist view of some things, just as I myself am guilty of at times, but if a decrease in that and acceptance of other cultures is prevalent and growing how is it comparable to a time where immigration was abhorred and a fundamental racist belief was inequality between the races.
If this is unable to address your point please go further into it. What period are we back into with out beliefs and what exactly are those beliefs that we are now using? The last time a true racial comment was used against me was by an old man who is probably still holding onto the views that were prevalent in the 70's which certainly are not core values today. And I would know how racist people are today - I sell dirt bikes to country people

My concern is over the way that some individuals believe that migrants need to learn our language and take on our values in order to be a citizen. I'm not trying to say that society as a whole is reverting to the racism of decades past. I'll admit that we both have valid perspectives on this issue and I would really rather we drop this matter.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

There isn't anything racial about identifying a flower or the lyric of a song. Still every "common knowledge" test has an inherent cultural bias, like the Koori IQ test I posted an extract of before

 

[ari89]

My concern is over the way that some individuals believe that migrants need to learn our language and take on our values in order to be a citizen. I'm not trying to say that society as a whole is reverting to the racism of decades past. I'll admit that we both have valid perspectives on this issue and I would really rather we drop this matter.

You claim it is valid without any justification
Trivialising todays approach to migrants and the pasts by ignoring the fundamental beliefs making up each view in favor of two peripheral points, namely learning English and taking on the values of the exclusive organisation you actively want to join (which is a choice as you are not forced to become an Australian citizen) is a pointless argument.

My posts are not an attack of you and not just directed at you. They are simply about the myth, that forever reasons, people see this as an extension of or a revertion (not a real word but I hope you get the idea) back to the White Australia Policy that has been brought up within this thread.

Someone, please explain the absurdity of expecting people who wish to become part of the nation through elective citizenship and actively participate in its politics, society and economy to learn the English language?

And secondly, how do a series of 20 questions testing your awareness of Australian culture, its values and the nations past perform some unimaginable racial and xenophobic injustice?

 

[ari89]

The argument against the test is that it fails to meet its objective of ensuring new citizens share "Australian values." Most of the questions are simply about history and trivia that are un-related to a genuine appreciation of values.

It's true
I still believe that the fact that it offers an incentive to learn English is its only real value. I think it is probably the best skill you can have in an English speaking country

As such I would argue that it is a waste of time and money. I dont believe the test is particularly oppressive as some people have claimed, but I think given how useless it is, its fair to say that the test is a pre-election stunt by the government which appeals to xenophobia and racism.

Guess who I'm voting for