Australian Republic or Monarchy for 2005+beyond (1 Viewer)

[Not-That-Bright]

you're just an idiot.
there are more republics than america

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Regarding all this USA bashing, the American system is actually founded on seperation of powers to a far greater extent than the Australian system. Their Constitution is very prudent in that respect so I don't know where all these complaints about the US not having checks and balances comes from.

When we were drafting out Constitution we looked, among others, to the US Constitution, but we didn't go as far, trusting in convention and our sense of British identity. Also, like the US, our highest court can rule laws unconstitutional.

Their system does have its merits -- simply because they have a monkey for a president doesn't mean their system of government is flawed.

[Also federalism may have aided us quite a bit in regards to safeguards on power and I'm not sure about what the alternative should be, or if one is needed.]

 

[iamsickofyear12]

As i directly quoted what you said i would say that u consider them related issues

Well they are related kind of.

 

[leetom]

me and comrade nathan agree on something?

Not really, it's just that Comrade Natham is prepared to becoem a militant if it means replacing the Union Jack on our flag with a hammer and sickle.

 

[MuffinMan]

We lost the referendum in 99 oh wellz its pretty soon to recall this issue but

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I really wonder how many of these guys would join some sort of militia if it ment overthrowing the country....

 

[grag balbrady]

Iment

i'd join a militia against your ignorance

 

[Comrade nathan]

Not really, it's just that Comrade Natham is prepared to becoem a militant if it means replacing the Union Jack on our flag with a hammer and sickle.

HAHAHA thats funny. Oh are you going to answer my question, one in the guest workers thread and the pm.

I really wonder how many of these guys would join some sort of militia if it ment overthrowing the country....

Probaly 3.

It's very interesting what must go on in someones mind before they choose to shoot on there own country folk.

 

[Comrade nathan]

i'd join a militia against your ignorance

Then you would quickly succumb to your own ignorance.

 

[fleepbasding]

Bullshit! If we become a republic then we lose the Governor General who is the the only person who can get rid of a 'bad' government. And he can't act without due cause. The governor general stops someone from becoming another Hitler or a dictator or just running our country into the ground.

Most people who want a republic think we'll end up like the U.S. It won't change our economy our anything else except a few minutes in history class and of course the cost of destroying every British and pre-republic seal and symbol on the land. This includes the parliament which is decked out in monarchist symbolism. It also includes an alteration to our flag. All this money that could be better spent elsewhere used so a we can say we're no longer disciples of the British when the British gave up all responsibility for us with the Australia Acts and took away leave to appeal to their court.

The very idea that we'd vote in a "hitler-esque" leader is ridiculous, use common-sense, that is just paranoid. OK, and in the unlikely situation that a hitler becomes the PM, would the GG be able to stand up to that sort of Tyrant anyway?

The argument that money will be wasted on republicizing everything is just a total excuse, that doesn't make a lot of sense. The Government wastes money all the time (election advertising for example) and if nothing else, becoming a republic is more worthy than that. Either way you're exagurating the desire of republicans to slavishly dismantle every last remnant of the pre-republican age. I for one don't care about the decoration of parliament house.

EDIT: Sorry this post is bit too late. Didn't realize there were two pages on this thread!

 

[waterfowl]

The very idea that we'd vote in a "hitler-esque" leader is ridiculous, use common-sense, that is just paranoid. OK, and in the unlikely situation that a hitler becomes the PM, would the GG be able to stand up to that sort of Tyrant anyway?

The problem is with most tyrants and dictators, they only become obviously so after they have entered office. Hitler was voted in by the people.

The argument that money will be wasted on republicizing everything is just a total excuse, that doesn't make a lot of sense. The Government wastes money all the time (election advertising for example) and if nothing else, becoming a republic is more worthy than that. Either way you're exagurating the desire of republicans to slavishly dismantle every last remnant of the pre-republican age. I for one don't care about the decoration of parliament house.

It's not a matter of making parliaments look nice, it is a matter of their 'paraphanalia' being correct. Every flag would have to be changed, every monarchist symbol replaced.
And the costs would be more than just fixing the physical things like that. Example:
Changing constitution and laws, possibly the physical structure of the houses;
Creating designs to replace the Queen on coins and $5 notes, and then minting them;
and the cost of a President/Chancellor, whatever they would be called, would most likely outweigh the cost of a Prime Minister - people complain about paying for Prince Charles' visit, we'd have to do that everytime our Aussie leader goes travelling, because a head of state 'deserves' more respect etc than a PM does.

 

[badhairday]

if it aint broke, dont fix it

 

[BrenKHS]

if it aint broke, dont fix it

Yeah its not broken but it would be rediculous not to get a better model of government.

Its like driving around a 1979 Commodore and rejecting a new one cause the old shit box is still running.

 

[fleepbasding]

It's not a matter of making parliaments look nice, it is a matter of their 'paraphanalia' being correct. Every flag would have to be changed, every monarchist symbol replaced.
And the costs would be more than just fixing the physical things like that. Example:
Changing constitution and laws, possibly the physical structure of the houses;
Creating designs to replace the Queen on coins and $5 notes, and then minting them;
and the cost of a President/Chancellor, whatever they would be called, would most likely outweigh the cost of a Prime Minister - people complain about paying for Prince Charles' visit, we'd have to do that everytime our Aussie leader goes travelling, because a head of state 'deserves' more respect etc than a PM does.

Yes, I knew we were referring to the paraphenalia. OK, well I've come up with some simple solutions to the issues you've presented.

1) We abolish the flag altogether. Who needs a flag anyway?
2) Constitution/laws: we rub out all references to the queen and GG... just imagine our PM going to the queen and saying "Now look here Elizabeth, there is no 'U' in 'Constitution'... wait... Damn!"
4) We phase in new coins that only display their worth, year of production, and 'Australia'. Who wants a head on their coin anyway?
3) The president doesn't get a salary.
4) Our president would be prohibited from travelling. For holidays he/she would... actually, no holidays for our president.
5) For diplomacy he/she will add all the worlds heads of states to his msn account, making negotiations a breeze. He/She can block Kim Jon Il, Mugabe etc...

 

[Iron]

The very idea that we'd vote in a "hitler-esque" leader is ridiculous, use common-sense, that is just paranoid. OK, and in the unlikely situation that a hitler becomes the PM, would the GG be able to stand up to that sort of Tyrant anyway?

Popular misconception that the G.G even has the power to dismiss a government. When Kerr did this, Whitlam actually had the option of sacking him instead. But perhaps he knew he would be thrashed in the election and wanted to go out in a blaze of publicity...
The most effective thing a G.G can do is resign and cry to the media about their reasons.
As the government is elected, their decisions take precedent over the courts and G.G as long as it's all constitutional.

R.E. tyrant, to quote Goebbles "We did not force the people. They gave us the mandate, and now their little throats are being cut"

 

[JumboKHS]

The very idea that we'd vote in a "hitler-esque" leader is ridiculous, use common-sense, that is just paranoid. OK, and in the unlikely situation that a hitler becomes the PM, would the GG be able to stand up to that sort of Tyrant anyway?

Just look at what bush is doing to america.
I like the idea of becoming a republic but i also like the safenet of having a governor general.

 

[Iron]

Dumpkoff...

 

[ohne]

Yeah its not broken but it would be rediculous not to get a better model of government.

Its like driving around a 1979 Commodore and rejecting a new one cause the old shit box is still running.

I think our system of government deserves a little more respect than being described as a 1979 Commodore and a Republic as a new one. If anything, I would say the Constitutional Monarchy arrangements in our country are a newer model than the republic.

 

[waterfowl]

Yes, I knew we were referring to the paraphenalia. OK, well I've come up with some simple solutions to the issues you've presented.

1) We abolish the flag altogether. Who needs a flag anyway?
2) Constitution/laws: we rub out all references to the queen and GG... just imagine our PM going to the queen and saying "Now look here Elizabeth, there is no 'U' in 'Constitution'... wait... Damn!"
4) We phase in new coins that only display their worth, year of production, and 'Australia'. Who wants a head on their coin anyway?
3) The president doesn't get a salary.
4) Our president would be prohibited from travelling. For holidays he/she would... actually, no holidays for our president.
5) For diplomacy he/she will add all the worlds heads of states to his msn account, making negotiations a breeze. He/She can block Kim Jon Il, Mugabe etc...

1) Thats just stupid
2) The whole process of becoming independent involves a lot more than just 'rubbing out' references to the Monarchy.
3) Again stupid, if the head of state wasn't being paid, they would have to be taken care of somehow
The rest is again plain stupid.

 

[BrenKHS]

I think our system of government deserves a little more respect than being described as a 1979 Commodore and a Republic as a new one. If anything, I would say the Constitutional Monarchy arrangements in our country are a newer model than the republic.

The current republic model can be changed and our current system of government CAN be improved.