BComm vs Actuarial (UNSW vs MQ) (1 Viewer)

oly1991

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So I'm pretty much tossing up between these two courses.

Here's my predicament. I'm extremely eager and enthusiatic on doing actuarial studies, however, i'm not certain that i will cope with the maths - which is apparently ridiculously hard. Can someone confirm this? I did Mathematics ext 1, but not ext 2; would that be enough?

Doing a BCommerce at UNSW and majoring at actuarial is also an enticing option. But this is where travelling comes into the equation. It would take me approx 1hours and 30 min to get to UNSW, whereas i would get to MQ in around 50 min.

So...

What do you guys think i should do?
How many people finish the actuarial course, or the percentage?
How much on average do actuaries get paid?
Am i more likely to get a job if do marketing of finance, rather than actuarial?
Will 1.5 hours travelling to uni and 1.5 travelling back have detrimental effects on my health or study?

Opinions please!!
Thanks :)
 

ascentyx

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I do actuarial and applied finance at macquarie so i may be able to help.

Pretty much both courses are similar, and ultimately it's not going to matter what uni you go to. Personally i would go to the one that is closer or you have more friends going to.

Also travelling isn't that bad it takes me 2 hours to get to macquarie and i'm doing fine. It would probably be wise to use that train time to study and you will get great marks :D
 

oly1991

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I do actuarial and applied finance at macquarie so i may be able to help.

Pretty much both courses are similar, and ultimately it's not going to matter what uni you go to. Personally i would go to the one that is closer or you have more friends going to.

Also travelling isn't that bad it takes me 2 hours to get to macquarie and i'm doing fine. It would probably be wise to use that train time to study and you will get great marks :D
Thanks for the advice :)

I'm leaning towards MQ at the moment.

Just wondering, how are you coping with the maths? Is it similar to HSC ext 1 and ext 2 maths?

But even if the maths is difficult, i'm determined to put in the work.
 
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ascentyx

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Thanks for the advice :)

I'm leaning towards MQ at the moment.

Just wondering, how are you coping with the maths? Is it similar to HSC ext 1 and ext 2 maths?

But even if the maths is difficult, i'm determined to put in the work.
Unless you're going to do a double degree with maths, you only do 2 pure maths subjects in your whole time at uni (math132 in first sem and then math133 in second sem). Math132 starts off like 4 unit with complex numbers and polynomials then you do matrices, determinants and like a more rigourous approach to some of the stuff you did in highschool (integrations limits etc). In math133 you do mostly new stuff like eigenvalues and eigenvectors, taylor series, differential equations etc.

Math in uni is more about understanding than just ROTE learning and standard application of formulae etc like in highschool. As long as you keep up with the tutes and do the work the exams are pretty standard and it's not too hard to get a good mark.

The main problem for most acst students in the statistics in the degree. math, stat and acst units are all closely related and you find heaps of overlap between the subjects (for example we did markov chains in math133 and acst211). the first semester stat171 unit owns lots of people because you need to get a credit do you can do acst211 and quite a significant amount of people don't get this (probably because they bludge-- first semester at uni :D).

I don't really have a holistic view of the actuarial degree because i've only done 1 year of it (and obviously it gets exponentially harder from here). As long as you are determined to do well, and you actually like what you are learning you will definitely succeed.
 

lyounamu

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In regards to Actuarial Studies, I wouldn't be the best person to get advices from. There are past and current Actuarial Studies students such as shinn, ascentyx and Yip who are much more knowledgeable than I am in this area.

But I will try my best to give you some information and ideas about Actuarial Studies that I have developed over the last 2 years.

Here's my predicament. I'm extremely eager and enthusiatic on doing actuarial studies, however, i'm not certain that i will cope with the maths - which is apparently ridiculously hard. Can someone confirm this? I did Mathematics ext 1, but not ext 2; would that be enough?
UNSW and Macquarie University say that Mathematics Extension 2 is a RECOMMENDED STUDY. Therefore, not doing the course doesn't pose much disadvantage.

As a GUIDE, they said 180+/200 for Mathematics Extension 1 + Mathematics Extensino 2 is recommended. The reason why they say 180+ is recommended is because they just want to see the extent of your mathematical problem solving and such HSC result MAY be a good indicator of such knowledge.

Doing a BCommerce at UNSW and majoring at actuarial is also an enticing option. But this is where travelling comes into the equation. It would take me approx 1hours and 30 min to get to UNSW, whereas i would get to MQ in around 50 min.
There are many things to consider...distance, university in general, social aspect of the uni and etc. For me, travelling to MQ would cut about 30 minutes of travelling. However, I highly regard my social life as well as the educational aspect of uni. UNSW is reknowned for its excellent teaching in Commerce and maths which make the course highly appealing to me. MQ is very famous for its Actuarial Course but I am not too sure about its maths department. Besides, I got a scholarship to UNSW so I might as well go there.


So...

What do you guys think i should do?
How many people finish the actuarial course, or the percentage?
How much on average do actuaries get paid?
Am i more likely to get a job if do marketing of finance, rather than actuarial?
Will 1.5 hours travelling to uni and 1.5 travelling back have detrimental effects on my health or study?
Go to MQ if you consider the distance aspect as well as MQ's famous Actuarial Studies department. For me who is going to be doing Commerce(Actuarial Studies)/Science (Mathematics + Statistics), UNSW seems like the place to go.

In terms of percentage of people who pass the course, I have heard that it's below 50% but I am not too sure.

Apart from that, salary + job demand for actuaries are excellent. Once you become fellow and/or associate, you are in for the good money and good job condition and etc.
 

Monstar

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If you're hesitant with your choice of acutuarial, I suggest going to UNSW. Why? because with the MQ degree, you're essentially locked into a acturarial major and thus if you find its difficult or not for you, itll be harder for you to transfer..

UNSW one is more flexible.. you can change and swap majors without actually encountering the hassle of changing the actual degree.
 

lyounamu

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If you're hesitant with your choice of acutuarial, I suggest going to UNSW. Why? because with the MQ degree, you're essentially locked into a acturarial major and thus if you find its difficult or not for you, itll be harder for you to transfer..

UNSW one is more flexible.. you can change and swap majors without actually encountering the hassle of changing the actual degree.
Very good point that I missed out on =)
 

oly1991

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Thankyou very much Namu and ascentyx. Information was very helpful :)

If you're hesitant with your choice of acutuarial, I suggest going to UNSW. Why? because with the MQ degree, you're essentially locked into a acturarial major and thus if you find its difficult or not for you, itll be harder for you to transfer..

UNSW one is more flexible.. you can change and swap majors without actually encountering the hassle of changing the actual degree.
True. i will definitely consider that.

Thanks for responding
:)
 

ascentyx

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Also you say that your atar is 93.50 + bonus points. may i ask what type of bonus these are?
 

shinn

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Here's my predicament. I'm extremely eager and enthusiatic on doing actuarial studies, however, i'm not certain that i will cope with the maths - which is apparently ridiculously hard. Can someone confirm this? I did Mathematics ext 1, but not ext 2; would that be enough?
You should be able to cope with just Math Ext I if you just keep up consistently with the tutorial hw and turn up to the lectures. The first year math courses have both calculus and algebra components. They'll go through the fundamentals quickly and build up from that.

Will 1.5 hours travelling to uni and 1.5 travelling back have detrimental effects on my health or study?
lol, I actually do most of my readings on the trains so its actually not that bad.
Just prepared to wake up early if u have 9:00am starts.
 

mitchy_boy

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Yeh Actuaries earn shit loads, I know one who was on 160K 3rd year out of uni, but that shouldn't be a deciding factor, he told me the maths is pretty full on, not so much hard, but he said it becomes all consuming. So make sure you know what you want mate.
 

Pwnage101

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There are many things to consider...distance, university in general, social aspect of the uni and etc. For me, travelling to MQ would cut about 30 minutes of travelling. However, I highly regard my social life as well as the educational aspect of uni. UNSW is reknowned for its excellent teaching in Commerce and maths which make the course highly appealing to me. MQ is very famous for its Actuarial Course but I am not too sure about its maths department. Besides, I got a scholarship to UNSW so I might as well go there.
Just a few of my thoughts regarding some issus quoted above:

Distance - very important factor, but should not be entirely decisive

University in General - yes and no. yes you want to go to a university and graduate with a degree that is recognised by prospective employers. no, it is not true that a commerce graduate from Sydney uni or UNSW would necessarily get a job just because they 'went there' compared to UTS, UWS, Macquarie, etc. Other fators such as extra-curricular activities and how well you do (i.e. grades) are more important.

Social Aspect of Uni - depends what you mean by 'social' i guess. Most universities have a significant amount of international students - you cant really avoid this. Is 'social' being bugged everyday by campaigners to sign petitions or join a cause? Is 'social' being near the city? Is 'social' being with your school friends? etc.

I might add - no matter what university you go to, you will still need to do assignments, you will still need to attend tutorials, you will still have 3 hour long exams, and the microeconomics [and accounting and macroeconomics and finance and etc.] at UNSW is no different to that at Macquarie which is no different to that at UWS - you will be taught and assessed similarly (contentwise).

Yes UNSW is 'renowned' for its commerce degree, but so is USYD and MACQ and UTS (and, dare i say, UWS) - which is why they ALL award degrees in commerce (business)

Don't go into uni thinking that the 'quality' of education will be very different between the unis - all unis have both 'good' and 'bad' lecturers, all have lecturers who have thick accents and who just read off the lecture slides, all have units where some tutors are 'dodgy' - and at the end of the day, you are going to be the one putting in the hours and doing the hard yards, even if you have the best lecturer possible.

It is also important to note that 'rankings' of universities and assessment of their faculties, etc is largely to do with postgraduate studies, i am led to believe.

Scholarship - this should be a major deciding factor [along with 'distance'], as essentially you are being paid to do something you were going to do anyway (perhaps at a different institution, but still).

PS Namu, Maths department should only worry you if you intend to pursue research and postgraduate work (honours, PhD, etc) in mathematics - even then a maths graduate from USYD can undertake honours at UNSW and a PhD from Oxford/MIT/Harvard

Hope some of that helps

NOTE: I am currently studying at Macquarie, and as such biased (we all are biased in some way). Please take this into account when reading the above.
 
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kevinant

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So I'm pretty much tossing up between these two courses.

Here's my predicament. I'm extremely eager and enthusiatic on doing actuarial studies, however, i'm not certain that i will cope with the maths - which is apparently ridiculously hard. Can someone confirm this? I did Mathematics ext 1, but not ext 2; would that be enough?
I don't think it's really that hard. You don't really need stuffs from High School maths(Definitely don't need trigonometry, mechanics, conics for actuarial). But you need the problem solving ability acquired in extension 2 to solve actuarial stuffs(in fact they are Statistical, Financial problems). As long as you are mathematics oriented person and attend all lectures and do all tutorials on time then you should be alright. In fact I think I would have get much lower grades if I have to write essays rather than solving actuarial problems.

Doing a BCommerce at UNSW and majoring at actuarial is also an enticing option. But this is where travelling comes into the equation. It would take me approx 1hours and 30 min to get to UNSW, whereas i would get to MQ in around 50 min.
Basically, employment opportunities do not differ much for actuarial course in both universities, as in the job fair there are roughly equal number of employees from both unis, and both unis really same.

Flexibility for transferring between degrees is similiar in both uni. In UNSW you just need to change your commerce/science major/combined degree at the student centre. However, if you would like transfer to different degree (for example, commerce to science etc) you WILL BE REQUIRED TO APPLY THROUGH UAC.

For macquarie, since the majors are written into degrees, changing your combined degree means a transfer to another degree. For degree transfers at Macq you ARE NOT REQUIRED TO APPLY though UAC. Just change it at the student centre. However, they do look at your GPA when you do apply for the transfer. So both uni works pretty similiar.


So, As Namu said,
-Scholarship
-Distance
-Double degree (If you double with bussiness related stuff it doesn't really matter).
-Do you really want to obtain exemption in uni (you need credit in both uni, but you can't repeat course with PASS in UNSW[someone please clarify this]).
-Do you like Big parkland campus or a bit small but modernised buildings?
-Preference between People/Planet compulsory electives of Macq and General education electives of UNSW

I think you can answer these questions easily and even if you are not sure there are ways to get around (Late round etc.)

Highschool sweethearts is DEFINITELY OUT OF QUESTION.
I was in similiar situation as Namu before..(google my prev post if you really have time).


So...

What do you guys think i should do?
How many people finish the actuarial course, or the percentage?
The reason why people find it difficult is due to the "Credit or above" requirement (It's easy to get pass but for credit the proportion rules kicks in).
For UNSW, I think the enrolment stats for ACTL1001, 2001,3001,4001 should give you the rough estimate of actuarial students across each year.
Class Search by Teaching Period

For Macq, we started at around 186 students and end up with 140ish at the end of 1st year (ppls get shocked by STAT171, not because it's hard but I think it's because some of them are slacking off by thinking 1st year is easy.). 128 by the end of 2nd year and 76ish by the end of 4th year.

How much on average do actuaries get paid?
Am i more likely to get a job if do marketing of finance, rather than actuarial?
Actuaries graduate do not get paid super duper ON AVERAGE. generally around 48k-52k/year(Much higher on FIAA qualification, 80k+). Also the traditional actuarial jobs only takes up one third of graduates each year. The one with super duper salary is a few and they obtain their job through better interpersonal skills etc. If you want a stable job with high graduating salary it's better to do Dentistry/Medicine/Optometry but by looking at your UAI it's not likely.
However, compared to finance/marketing/accounting actuarial studies do offer higher pay. Don't really know their job prospects though.




Will 1.5 hours travelling to uni and 1.5 travelling back have detrimental effects on my health or study?
Opinions please!!
Thanks :)
No, as long as you attend all lectures and do all tutorials you should be fine. There are a lots of students slacking off by skipping classes or don't do tutorials and cram at the stu-vac during the exam. This is definitely a terrible practice and should be avoided as it gives you higher risk of failing.
 

KevinWu

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Do you guys think that Adv. Mathematics would be a good degree to combine with a Commerce Major in UNSW.
I want to major in Finance and work in the investment sector.
and whats the difference in finance and acturial?
From what i've read it seems acturial is a harder version of finance
 

dvse

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Do you guys think that Adv. Mathematics would be a good degree to combine with a Commerce Major in UNSW.
I want to major in Finance and work in the investment sector.
and whats the difference in finance and acturial?
From what i've read it seems acturial is a harder version of finance
Advanced Maths (essentially maths honours) is definitely a good degree (but make sure to at least do the 3rd year analysis, algebra and differential geometry courses)


Actuarial is a combination of some extremely dated manipulations with geometric series (life annuities, loan schedules etc), some statistics (basic probability, GLMs, markov processes), some "modern finance" (CAPM, options pricing etc). All in all the only thing most students learn is how to naively apply the primitive textbook models.


Finance is at an even lower technical level than actuarial and almost exlusively consists of annuities and "modern finance". One advantage is that the standard models are covered at greater length, also there are some optional courses on things like credit modelling etc.


In terms of actual education both options are indeed disappointing, but sadly required to get a job in the financial sector.
 

Studentleader

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Math in uni is more about understanding than just ROTE learning and standard application of formulae etc like in highschool.
Not in first year analysis lol

0/0 -> lim(x->a) f'(a)/g'(a) gg 100%
 

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