bush's humility (2 Viewers)

[Monkey Butler]

I didn't actually look at any of the pictures, so I didn't know whether it was a fetus or an embryo. And what on this board has made you think that people here don't know what abortion involves (damnit, now I'm getting into the debate!)? It's been stated several times in the abortion thread that extensive counselling/consulting is done before an abortion is performed.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Maybe they should show them a tape of what's about to happen, i've got a clip of a baby being aborted at 12 weeks... it first tries to get away from the suction tip, its heart rate goes up... it's mouth appears to be open as if it is screaming, it continues to try to get away while the suction tip pulls its limbs off....

 

[neo o]

Oh it can try to get away, but according to hiphop, since its been sucked out instead of naturally passing through a woman's vagina or been removed via a C-Section it has no rights.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

yea of course, as long as whatever comes out is indistiguishable as human...... (hopefully)

 

[Monkey Butler]

That's just sensationalising the issue. Women are aware that there is a human being growing inside of them, and that it's a tragic and terrible thing that they're doing.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

no i think there's a desentionalising, I believe before an abortion they should show mothers an ultra-sound of what is about to happen to their baby, point out the increasing heart rate, how it tries to escape the suction tube...

 

[Monkey Butler]

And what will that achieve? You want to guilt people out of abortions? There are some things that have to be done, no matter how hard it is to do them.

If you have to put a dog down, you're not going to look it in the face before you shoot it. (that's a really offensive analogy, but hopefully you get what I mean)

 

[Not-That-Bright]

No i don't think it's guilting people out of abortions, i think it's making people face a reality that they usually don't have to.
I believe it's like meat, some people become vegan once they see how we get our meat, others don't.

However this is a fair bit more important of a decision, i believe everyone should decide for themselves first after seeing an ultrasound of what happens wether that is a living creature trying to escape it's death... Then decide if they still want to do it, if they decide after seeing the film that they don't want an abortion, maybe they NEVER should of had one, were just misinformed?!

 

[Monkey Butler]

You could equally show a heroine baby living in abject poverty, their parents dead from an OD, and themselves with learning disabilities and a physical addiction to heroine. Or an unwanted child having to live with a single parent, knowing that they're the reason why their mother can't get a job, and that they were an accident. Or how about a mother having to see her rapist in the face of her child every day.

See, it's sensationalising.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Let me think about this for a second.... Knowing i'm an accident (which i do), or having my limbs sucked off my a tube... hmmm i think i like my life.

 

[Monkey Butler]

Jesus, it's not that black and white! It's more like (although this still isn't correct) denial of life versus a fucked up life.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

No it's more like.. Denial of life vs the POSSIBILITY of a fucked up life, whenever any of us are born there's a possibility of our lives being fucked up, i mean look at people like oprah, born to a heroine addict mother, hooker, ends up being one of the most famous women in the world and richer than she could ever imagine, i believe she loves life.

Then u have people born into 'great' families that end up with pretty shitty lives, we all take a risk.

 

[Monkey Butler]

Well, OK, fair enough, the possibility of a fucked up life then (although it's most likely an increased possibility if the mother is considering an abortion). You still have to weigh up those two things, and showing footage of what's going to happen isn't going to help that decision. Neither is showing a suffering child, with no hope of a better life. Neither of those things are about informing a mother, they're about trying to persuade her, and it should be the mother's choice.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

No because that's just speculation...
It's speculation that the child will end up living a good/bad life, it is not speculation that if the abortion happens a childs limbs will be sucked off it.