china- female baby rejects. (1 Viewer)

[pete_mate]

ive looked at china in-depth in modern history and economics, giving me a balanced viewpoint

the attitude i refer to is that china cannot give its people economic freedoms and not social and democratic ones, it doesnt work; as evidenced by tiananmen

" THE ECONOMY and this is why things like social welfare and human rights aren't being given much attention"

wtf? isnt china claiming to be socialist?

your logic of saying china is in a transisition period and is going through a tough time, is only due to the fact they have conflicting policies on economic and social freedoms

 

[Not-That-Bright]

The following are the reasons why I don't particulary like the Chinese government and hope for change;
- Their judicial system is rort with corruption.
- They're continually oppressing basic cultural and religious freedom
- Discrimination against people with aids / not managing the aids epidemic properly.
- Not allowing workers to form independant trade unions.
- and the forced evictions i've been hearing about lately due to the olympic games and other developments....

I don't think that's really a cold war additude.
I haven't been to China, but I don't see what exactly that has to do with anything... How many of you have been arrested in China? then you might have something to talk about.

 

[paper cup]

ive looked at china in-depth in modern history and economics, giving me a balanced viewpoint

the attitude i refer to is that china cannot give its people economic freedoms and not social and democratic ones, it doesnt work; as evidenced by tiananmen

" THE ECONOMY and this is why things like social welfare and human rights aren't being given much attention"

wtf? isnt china claiming to be socialist?

your logic of saying china is in a transisition period and is going through a tough time, is only due to the fact they have conflicting policies on economic and social freedoms

no. China is not socialist no matter what its government claims. It's going through the prelim stages of capitalism.

No dear, that gives you a European view on the situation.

The following are the reasons why I don't particulary like the Chinese government and hope for change;
- Their judicial system is rort with corruption.
- They're continually oppressing basic cultural and religious freedom
- Discrimination against people with aids / not managing the aids epidemic properly.
- Not allowing workers to form independant trade unions.
- and the forced evictions i've been hearing about lately due to the olympic games and other developments....

I don't think that's really a cold war additude.

did you read mine or frigid's last posts at all?

 

[pete_mate]

other than the fact that China has human rights abuses against certain minority groups, censors the internet, has non-representative government, has bad environmental problems and a large rift between the rich and poor, in all other respects I don't think it's a bad place at all.

a lot.

i know your type, i have a chinese friend that raves about how great china and socialism is, yet is only from Hong Kong, which is more capitalist than australia,

therefore he is saying how great capitalism is

i do hope your not only from hong kong

 

[paper cup]

i know your type, i have a chinese friend that raves about how great china and socialism is, yet is only from Hong Kong, which is more capitalist than australia,

therefore he is saying how great capitalism is

i do hope your not only from hong kong

he's not, he's canto. and you misunderstood him.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

no. China is not socialist no matter what its government claims. It's going through the prelim stages of capitalism.

No dear, that gives you a European view on the situation.


did you read mine or frigid's last posts at all?

Yes I did read the posts... and I was responding to them. Retort my statements or just accept that China has alot of things to deal with and currently they're not showing ANY SIGN of dealing with them...
China opened up their guns on a bunch of protestors and imprisoned thousands more, and these days they're trying to distort history and no one has been brought to trial for these crimes while anyone who tries to research into it is thrown in gaol.

 

[paper cup]

I haven't been to China, but I don't see what exactly that has to do with anything...

You don't actually know what it's really like there then. I wouldn't trust the judgement of a commentator on Australian political policy if he had never been to Australia, only read about it in articles/books written entirely from, say a Eastern viewpoint.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I know heaps of Australians who know jack-shit about aboriginals, probably many people oversea's know more... The idea of "You'll never ever know if you never ever go" is flawed.

 

[paper cup]

Yes I did read the posts... and I was responding to them. Retort my statements or just accept that China has alot of things to deal with and currently they're not showing ANY SIGN of dealing with them...
China opened up their guns on a bunch of protestors and imprisoned thousands more, and these days they're trying to distort history and no one has been brought to trial for these crimes while anyone who tries to research into it is thrown in gaol.

*sigh

are you refering to Tiananmen again? Look I'm saying it was right, only that it was necessary to maintaining civil stability, which IS VITAL FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. Would you have prefered tens of thousands of others to have died suffering from the economic repercussions of a revolution instead?

obviously you haven't understood what you read. Here we go again:

without being accused of being a 'phanatical', i would like to point out that what suits western democracies might not suit china. it is not an attitude problem, but rather a contextual difference.

besides, let me put it this way, how long did it take for england to turn from a feudal state to a democratic country with responsible and representative government? were there not bloodshed, revolution and state oppression along the way? it must be remembered that china only threw off her feudal shackles at the turn of the 20th century and ceased its civil wars 56 years ago.

there are a multitude of reasons why china is not a fully westernised, human rights-loving, representative government, but none of it is based on what my learned friend pete calls attitude.

 

[paper cup]

I know heaps of Australians who know jack-shit about aboriginals, probably many people oversea's know more... The idea of "You'll never ever know if you never ever go" is flawed.

yes because you have objectivity however if this supposed 'objectivity' is tainted by your Eurocentric values and context then your judgment will be ultimately flawed.
Germaine Greer? *snort

 

[Frigid]

ive looked at china in-depth in modern history and economics, giving me a balanced viewpoint... as evidenced by tiananmen

indeed HSC Modern History and HSC Economics qualifies you with a 'balanced', 'well-informed', (in accounting policy what we call) 'true and fair' viewpoint.

i would submit that your only 'evidence' so far is 16 years old undermines your 'qualifications' somewhat. NTB has more valid claims than you, in my humble opinion.

so... got any recent examples, pete?

here, i'll help you out - you might want to say since 1996 china has been constructing its internet networks in a centralised fashion (with the help of US companies Cisco and Nortel), so that the government can filter and route all 'politically-sensitive' data flows; that it has internet corps on major BBS to spread propaganda; and that it blocks out Sydney Morning Herald website while I was in Guangzhou.

wtf? isnt china claiming to be socialist?

socialists need economics too mate. go read your prelim text on 'what is economics?' and apply it to china - go on. i'll wait.

and besides, i would say china's moving away from 'true' socialism...

your logic of saying china is in a transisition period and is going through a tough time, is only due to the fact they have conflicting policies on economic and social freedoms

:uhhuh: that's what alicia is saying. do you agree or something?

oh and might i add they've got major social issues like rift between rich and poor, city and rural, population-aging, all that jazz.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

yes because you have objectivity however if this supposed 'objectivity' is tainted by your Eurocentric values and context then your judgment will be ultimately flawed.
Germaine Greer? *snort

Someone who has been to china/raised in china where they are by all accounts telling their people lies and re-writing history is more objective? I agree that visiting the country first hand can give you some great insight but it's just wrong to think that you have to have been there to really talk about it.
How many people in Australia/Around the world write about American culture having only ever experienced the modulated form of it via tv?

If people who have been brought up there/been there have some great insight then let them write to us and challenge my thoughts rather than just say "no u don't know anything, you haven't been there".

 

[Frigid]

Someone who has been to china/raised in china where they are by all accounts telling their people lies and re-writing history is more objective?

haha history ought to be written in the best light, if we are to take a Japanese slant on things

 

[paper cup]

Someone who has been to china/raised in china where they are by all accounts telling their people lies and re-writing history is more objective?

By 'all accounts' you mean by 'all accounts that NTB, who has never been to China and is quite obviously biased against the CCP has come into contact with and intepreted from his european perspective'
It's not total lies. It's biased toward the CCP, but not complete lies. Would you like me to type you a section, I have a Chinese high school history textbook around here somewhere.
Remembering that a lot of the 'atrocities' occurred in the last couple of decades, a lot of Chinese people were actual eyewitnesses of events. Don't you think they'd have a more accurate account of events - even if it is biased?
The Western intepretation of events will always be flawed. Just as the Chinese intepretation of the west will always be flawed.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Japan is no better when it comes to that lol

 

[paper cup]

Japan is no better when it comes to that lol

haha Japan is a different context altogether.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Don't you think that people who have fled the country and describe virtually the same eyewitness account of the events that supports the western view would be more accurate than those in China who haven't been gaoled for their research to find the truth on the matter/their outspoken-ness (sic) about the event?

The people on the out-side looking in will know alot more about what's going on, the people in there are just fish in a bowl

 

[Frigid]

Don't you think that people who have fled the country and describe virtually the same eyewitness account of the events that supports the western view would be more accurate than those in China who haven't been gaoled for their research to find the truth on the matter/their outspoken-ness (sic) about the event?

ahhh, but dear, if the western view is congruent with that of the oppressed, then wouldn't that be bias per se?

 

[paper cup]

Don't you think that people who have fled the country and describe virtually the same eyewitness account of the events that supports the western view would be more accurate than those in China who haven't been gaoled for their research to find the truth on the matter/their outspoken-ness (sic) about the event?

don't you think their accounts would be voiced as to favour their cause? they want to stay in whichever country they have 'fled' to so obviously they say what the govt and people of that country want to hear.
wen dear, are you going to PM me or not. I'm getting lonely waiting for it

 

[jm1234567890]

I think many of the social problems in china stem from it's culture. There has always been the need to be ther best and this need has always been quantified.

For example, back in the days of imperial china, to become high ranked officials you had to take and exam and the highest scorer will be given the position. In addition, now a university education is highly regarded so everyone is trying to get the highest marks.

In society this has been interpreted as money. The more money you have the more highly regarded you are. Thus, people stop at nothing at acquireing wealth. This results in the corruption and social problems that are evident now. The "dog eat dog" world CB was refering to.

This isn't as prominient in western society, due to christianity, where you are taught not to be greedy.

These are just my thoughts, correct me if i'm wrong.