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China. (1 Viewer)

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This is to do with my ext 2 major work, I'd be grateful if people could contribute.

+ What I'm particularly curious about is about how the West sees China.

- a commentator once said that the West can't see past the problems - but quite obviously there must be problems, there are problems in any sort of society. Another thing - China understands the West much better than the West understands China. Maybe not in Sydney or places where Chinese immigrants form a substantial part of the population, but in rural Australia you really notice it. Also the Western view of China is shaped by various contexts - historical, social, cultural, and also by the view of socialism. I think the Western view of socialism is tainted in that it does not distinguish accurately between the various types of socialism - the Stalinist repression of the USSR, the more nationalistic form in Vietnam, and the, I suppose, very NEP inspired form in China today. Which is really not socialism, but a sort of capitalism masquerading as socialism - I doubt very much that communism will be achieved in the PRC.

+ Please don't just look at the political aspects - the society, the culture, the history of China is also vital, they all supplement and influence each other.

+ What comes to mind when the word 'China' comes up?

Do you only see the problems - or can you look past it to see I suppose, I don't know, a nation victimised by history - think about this for a moment. The Manchu Dynasty (which should actually be the Man Zhu Dynasty, but anyway), or Qing, that is, the last dynasty, meant that the Han ethnicity was dominated by an ethnic minority group, centralised in the north of the nation (that's the chicken's head folks - most people were dispersed more around the nation) - it's sort of akin, in numbers, to Australia being ruled by the ATSI. Shortly afterwards the nation was racked by a series of revolutions and by foreign intervention, then WWII - I need not go into the atrocities involved. Has anyone read 'Empire of the Sun'? That's a very European view, I don't like Ballard at all. 1949 was the declaration of the formation of the PRC, and then a couple of decades ruled by that...*omits epithet* Chairman Mao, the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution. Etc. The CCP has admitted that the Cultural Revolution was wrong, but not the GLF - though everyone knows it was wrong, hardly ever mentioned anymore. sorta like when everyone knew Stalin was executing everyone but no one dared to say anything about it. Then Deng came to power...you know, he did a lot of wrong and crappy things but he did quite a bit of stuff for China economically. This only came to an end...well it hasn't really come to an end, the nation is still suffering the ramifications of that. Oops there's my bias, but see that's the kind of response I was looking for, something deriving from one's own context, sorry, ignore that, give me your personal insights and by that I don't mean mindless spamming or trolling.

+ What is your view of the society at the moment, and why do you think this way -do you have any justification for your views or do they derive from a desire for conformance with the general opinion?

+ Be unique, the individual versus society, think Isabel Archer trying to take on Europe with her unconventional education.

+ It would help if your uni course has a little to do with this, eg social science, l'histoire, or you do modern, etc. I'd actually prefer if you weren't Chinese, because the purpose of all this is to develop a Western character, but please post if you have something to say.

Since I even went to all the trouble of italicising some key words, no one mention Taiwan - well mention it by all means, if it has to do with the point you're making, but don't go into a debate about it, there's another thread for that. And no anti japanese tirades either, we've got one for that as well. extremists hijack my thread and die. DIE. *waves baseball bat for emphasis*

thanks

cb
 
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Xayma

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Before I start I don't want to be attacked by Phanatical for my own viewpoints, despite him always being right :rolleyes:

No I don't do a course that has anything at all to do with History or international relations in any way shape or form.

Politically

The Chinese Government is too narrow minded. It takes considerable effort and international pressure before they will go forward into negotiations about anything. If they could they would prevent a blanket ban on unapproved internet access with harsh penalities (one of the best things for the country in my opinion is the bloggers, who allow outsiders a view into China).

Socially

Generally I think those of Chinese ethnicity (excluding some obvious examples) are more open minded then their government, with a long history of being open to many different cultures and peoples (until the Christians fucked them right up).

Economically

They are getting better, but I can't say much for the long term view of them, with a one party system, it doesn't take too much to send it into chaos.

No idea why I came to those views, but they are currently my low sugar level, sleep deprived views. Short and straight to the guts of it, I will expand more if you want me to at a later stage.
 

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Xayma said:
Before I start I don't want to be attacked by Phanatical for my own viewpoints, despite him always being right :rolleyes:

No I don't do a course that has anything at all to do with History or international relations in any way shape or form.

Politically

The Chinese Government is too narrow minded. It takes considerable effort and international pressure before they will go forward into negotiations about anything. If they could they would prevent a blanket ban on unapproved internet access with harsh penalities (one of the best things for the country in my opinion is the bloggers, who allow outsiders a view into China).

Socially

Generally I think those of Chinese ethnicity (excluding some obvious examples) are more open minded then their government, with a long history of being open to many different cultures and peoples (until the Christians fucked them right up).

Economically

They are getting better, but I can't say much for the long term view of them, with a one party system, it doesn't take too much to send it into chaos.

No idea why I came to those views, but they are currently my low sugar level, sleep deprived views. Short and straight to the guts of it, I will expand more if you want me to at a later stage.
Xayma how have you formed this view? why? through the media?
 

Frigid

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[rant] i think that if anyone wants to talk about the violation of human rights, we shouldn't forget America's Camp X-Ray, or our very own detention centres. [/rant]

Xayma, if you were a political party you'd want to hang on power too. China's government has no choice but to continue. if tomorrow China became a democracy, the social implications are enormous, and i dun mean necessarily in a good way. blame it on the existing status quo, rather than China being anti-democratic at heart. i think economic growth will slowly, but surely, change China's political climate.

China still has many social problems, especially with the 10%+ yearly GDP growth. Wealth-distribution imbalance and aging population are the main social problems IMO. China might look at slowly bringing in social welfare reform to ensure citizens, especially in rural regions, don't suffer too much.

Environmentally, :( i hope things change for the better.

Economically: China doesn't want the yuan to appreciate too quickly against the greenback. Will aim for soft-landing in GDP growth. Will try to tackle structural unemployment, as more people move from poor rural regions to city.
 

Phanatical

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Being a Chinese, I can't answer the set question. Nevertheless, I think it's important to point out that China's system works for China because 2200 years of Confucian tradition means that what may work for the west most definitely will not work for the Middle Kingdom.
 

Xayma

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cherryblossom said:
Xayma how have you formed this view? why? through the media?
Media partially, but also a fair bit I learnt a while back when I was IRCing, a person I talked to a fair bit was an English teacher in China, near the Afghanistan border. I don't know 100% why I formed these views probably partially because China's culture is something I am not use to (and I very much doubt many Chinese are use to my culture).

Frigid said:
[rant] i think that if anyone wants to talk about the violation of human rights, we shouldn't forget America's Camp X-Ray, or our very own detention centres. [/rant]

Xayma, if you were a political party you'd want to hang on power too. China's government has no choice but to continue. if tomorrow China became a democracy, the social implications are enormous, and i dun mean necessarily in a good way. blame it on the existing status quo, rather than China being anti-democratic at heart. i think economic growth will slowly, but surely, change China's political climate.
The economic thing, isn't necessairly bad, but it becomes harder to predict since there is less of a method for removing bad influences. Internationally however, I think they need to be more open to negotiation over issues, instead of necessairly a hard fast approach from the beginning.

Phanatical: I'm not suggesting we throw open the doors to the western style of politics, but remember, Europe use to live under a feudal system :) places can change with time, although China is becoming very westernised very quickly (compared to other major changes) which might make it's transition bumpy.
 

paper cup

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Phanatical said:
Being a Chinese, I can't answer the set question. Nevertheless, I think it's important to point out that China's system works for China because 2200 years of Confucian tradition means that what may work for the west most definitely will not work for the Middle Kingdom.
nice and nationalistic.
I agree with that - I read something outlining the factors why china can't tread the capitalist path.
please...more personal :(
 

Jago

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I'm intelligent!

*walks off*
 

paper cup

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Xayma said:
Media partially, but also a fair bit I learnt a while back when I was IRCing, a person I talked to a fair bit was an English teacher in China, near the Afghanistan border. I don't know 100% why I formed these views probably partially because China's culture is something I am not use to (and I very much doubt many Chinese are use to my culture).



The economic thing, isn't necessairly bad, but it becomes harder to predict since there is less of a method for removing bad influences. Internationally however, I think they need to be more open to negotiation over issues, instead of necessairly a hard fast approach from the beginning.

Phanatical: I'm not suggesting we throw open the doors to the western style of politics, but remember, Europe use to live under a feudal system :) places can change with time, although China is becoming very westernised very quickly (compared to other major changes) which might make it's transition bumpy.
ahh near the Afghanistani border. Tibet-ish? one of the least economically developed regions...I read this really interesting press conference transcript where the govt official in charge of ethnic minorities outlined why the development of such regions is backward in comparison to the eastern coast.

I hardly think that gives you a complete view of the situ - I'm not criticising, just putting forward an alternative viewpoint.
 

Xayma

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cherryblossom said:
ahh near the Afghanistani border. Tibet-ish? one of the least economically developed regions...I read this really interesting press conference transcript where the govt official in charge of ethnic minorities outlined why the development of such regions is backward in comparison to the eastern coast.

I hardly think that gives you a complete view of the situ - I'm not criticising, just putting forward an alternative viewpoint.
I know it doesn't, however, no person will have a complete view of the situation.

As to the exact location Im not sure, he did have broadband installed however at the start of the War on Terror.

When I say media I dont mean things like "national nine news" and aca. Generally SMH, a few international sites, Newscientist etc.
 

paper cup

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Xayma said:
I know it doesn't, however, no person will have a complete view of the situation.

As to the exact location Im not sure, he did have broadband installed however at the start of the War on Terror.

When I say media I dont mean things like "national nine news" and aca. Generally SMH, a few international sites, Newscientist etc.
oh I know Xayma, you're intellectual. :p

here, lets do a test. can anyone here (can't be chinese) name five works of Chinese literature. doesn't have to be in chinese, can be a translation.

then we'll get a fob to name 5 works of western literature :D
 

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If you want to compare the PRC to USSR, you can compare the reforms of Deng to that of the reforms of Krushchev.

Louise Anna Strong is a good person to read for a pro Maoist revolution. She also has a book about Tibet, and how the serfs of Tibet were part of the revolution to overthrow the Monk & Land Lord dictatorship.

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/strong-anna-louise/
 

Xayma

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That isn't very fair.

Western Civilisation covers many more countries :p and governments in the last few hundred years haven't regulated many works.

But Ill take a rough stab at it (also I assume you mean a "fob" living in China who has never been to a Western country?).

Art of War (I think it was Chinese, although it might be Japanese).

Umm no that's it. I can remember there is one about a woman's experience during the great march, but I cant remember the name (something to do with a flower or swan or something).
 

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Xayma said:
That isn't very fair.

Western Civilisation covers many more countries :p and governments in the last few hundred years haven't regulated many works.

But Ill take a rough stab at it (also I assume you mean a "fob" living in China who has never been to a Western country?).

Art of War (I think it was Chinese, although it might be Japanese).

Umm no that's it. I can remember there is one about a woman's experience during the great march, but I cant remember the name (something to do with a flower or swan or something).
lol at Xayma - chinese culture is so much more ancient. we had poetry when you were climbing trees :p

fob is a fresh off the boat, as in fresh chinese immigrant. but your suggestion is better.
art of war was written by sun zi I think.
three swans was by jung chang, I'd hardly call it literature.
 

Xayma

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You had poetry 12 years ago? Wow ancient :p I generally don't consider my culture superior to yours.

Yeah it was written by him although I know there is a T somewhere there. (Edit: Sun Tzu)

Also western books have acheived a much wider circulation then chinese literature. Especially in modern times.

If we must do it lets restrict it to the first hundred or two years of the Renaissance. (Since it's end point is debatable) (which would be end of the Ming Dynasty).
 
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Iron

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China scares me. All those dragons, pointy characters and people.
I cant even comprehend a China-dominated world. That's an uncertain fear, rather than a silly one.
 

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I wouldn't normally comment, but Alicia insisted that I do, so here's a slightly more uninformed view than what most of the rest of the posters in this thread would have.

Any government in a one party system has very little to fear from the populous of the country, due to the fact that they do not have to be reelected, and so long as the members of the party itself are reasonably united on an issue, it will be pushed without resistance. While there is always the remote chance of a coup happening, so long as China's massive military is kept happy by the government, there seems to be very little that the people can do to stop the government completely disregarding them in favour of more selfish interests.

I'm also highly critical of their stance against Buddhists, but they may have genuine reasons for this that I don't know about, so I won't launch into too much of a rant about this.

While I realise that some patriotic people of Chinese birth/heritage may have a distaste for my views, I'd suggest that they resist the urge to flame me as I probably won't be reading it.:)
 

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cherryblossom said:
oh I know Xayma, you're intellectual. :p

here, lets do a test. can anyone here (can't be chinese) name five works of Chinese literature. doesn't have to be in chinese, can be a translation.

then we'll get a fob to name 5 works of western literature :D
1. Little Red Book.

2. .....

Hi CB.


l
cherryblossom said:
lol at Xayma - chinese culture is so much more ancient. we had poetry when you were climbing trees
Yep, from trees to a whole Oriental submission to Western cannon. That's how we are in the West.

Cannons are better than poetry, making Western culture superieur.
 

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