clutching at straws... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Weisy
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utopian731
Eudaimonian
I hear you in those unseens flyin'
thats weird eh?
maybe thats the case because cicero is always talking about the shameful behoviour of some scumbag or his own glorious achievements
we'll see in greek
thats weird eh?
maybe thats the case because cicero is always talking about the shameful behoviour of some scumbag or his own glorious achievements
we'll see in greek
other than abusing someone else or praising himself there is really nothing to cicero's speechs ... but how bad would ur feel if you were Catiline or someone on the other side ...
unlike vergil... which could be anything on earth... from war to giants cyclops... dido... sailing... eating tables.... its so unpredicable
unlike vergil... which could be anything on earth... from war to giants cyclops... dido... sailing... eating tables.... its so unpredicable
Questions for all you Latin types...
So... "litotic" - is it a word? Or did I just make it up?
And what do you guys think of Creusa's death - was it Aeneas' fault for not caring enough to even look back to check on her? Or would it have happened anyway? Any thoughts? I'm finding it sort of difficult to analyse his character - I mean when he starts ranting on at everyone else because Creusa's gone, is it just a sign of his grief or does this show some sort of flaw in his character?
So... "litotic" - is it a word? Or did I just make it up?
And what do you guys think of Creusa's death - was it Aeneas' fault for not caring enough to even look back to check on her? Or would it have happened anyway? Any thoughts? I'm finding it sort of difficult to analyse his character - I mean when he starts ranting on at everyone else because Creusa's gone, is it just a sign of his grief or does this show some sort of flaw in his character?
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I think the textbook answer to that one would be that Aeneas really had no reign over what happened to Creusa - his personal feelings or actions can not be attributed to his own faults as a person. Creusa's death must happen in order for Aeneas to move on, etc.
I like how Vergil makes Creusa's death seem "poignant" though (for want of a better word). I think it was his intention to leave the reader thinking "what if?", but it is clear too that it couldn't have happened any other way.
As for my personal opinion, I think you are well aware of what I think should have happened.
As for 'litotic"...I would rate it well up there, along with "ominousness" (my made up word) and "ludicrousity" (Mr. M's). I say use it!
I like how Vergil makes Creusa's death seem "poignant" though (for want of a better word
). I think it was his intention to leave the reader thinking "what if?", but it is clear too that it couldn't have happened any other way.As for my personal opinion, I think you are well aware of what I think should have happened.
As for 'litotic"...I would rate it well up there, along with "ominousness" (my made up word) and "ludicrousity" (Mr. M's). I say use it!
utopian731
Eudaimonian
its relaly annoying when commentators read so far into the verse
liek aeneas haveing creusa follow behind. All this conjecture over "longe"...
i dunno, in our class we just decided that there really is nothing too significant about it. Think about it, the bigger the group, the more noise they make the easier they are to catch. Aeneas couldnt really leave anyone else behind, a little kid or a decrepid old man?
last word on cicero.....
dont worry about him, we all know what happened to his head and hands
liek aeneas haveing creusa follow behind. All this conjecture over "longe"
...i dunno, in our class we just decided that there really is nothing too significant about it. Think about it, the bigger the group, the more noise they make the easier they are to catch. Aeneas couldnt really leave anyone else behind, a little kid or a decrepid old man?
last word on cicero.....
dont worry about him, we all know what happened to his head and hands
I see what you mean. But only the big picture destiny (ie. his moenia quaere magna pererrato statues quae denique ponto) is inevitable, right? Which I suppose includes Creusa dying to make room for Lavinia, but I still think all the parameters of destiny are under his control, eg. how he reacts to it (yikes, swap the word "destiny" for "change" and it sounds uncannily like a area of study essay excerpt). Argh, trying not to let this turn into a philosophical discussion of determinism.
That's true. Why can I never see things in practical terms?
I don't know, I just don't like the way when he talks about his fear it's only in relation to Anchises and Ascanius, and when Creusa dies he goes around blaming everyone but himself.Looks like he talked the ears off the wrong people...
pretty gross though. Pompous ass or not though, it's not a nice way to die...hey, apparently there are only 14 students in the state doing greek!! woah..... (useless info for ya *g*)
hey there are three topics that we have to know about in the story. Fate, Pathos and Aeneas' character.
We only ever really did fate and pathos. My teacher reckons there's hardly any of Aeneas' character portrayal in Book II. So if they ask anything about his character, i'm dead...
Anyway, just wondering what you guys have discussed about his character?
hey there are three topics that we have to know about in the story. Fate, Pathos and Aeneas' character.
We only ever really did fate and pathos. My teacher reckons there's hardly any of Aeneas' character portrayal in Book II. So if they ask anything about his character, i'm dead...
Anyway, just wondering what you guys have discussed about his character?
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Not much, really. We (ie. Weisy, our Latin teacher and I - tiny class) spent most of our time having arguments about whether Aeneas is to blame for Creusa's death. If you ask me, one of the major aspects of Aeneas' character you see in this book is his emotional fragility (no, I'm not much of an Aeneas fan) - the idiot just doesn't seem to get the message that he's not allowed to die!!
He just keeps going out there trying to die the glorious Homeric hero death, like a Hector wannabe So in short I think Book 2 is about Aeneas trying to reconcile, or rather subordinate his personal emotional needs to his higher destiny, bla bla bla.dunno, just slipped my mind, like so many things these days.
*slaps herself*
My understanding is that he is inherently fallible, but that being an instrument of destiny, his faults may be disregarded. An important aspect of his characterisation in the story is that he is never fully aware of his own fate, but he is affected by his own sense of piety to fulfill his destiny as determined by the gods. The end of book ii marks an important change in his own perception of himself, as he abandons his role as Trojan warrior as well as his baser instincts to kill and avenge in order to fulfill his destiny.
my question is, did he do this of his own accord, or was it too a side effect of the omnipotent plotting of the deities?
further thoughts would be very welcome.
utopian731
Eudaimonian
In reference to the question about Aeneas' characetre, with those sorts of comentary question throughout the exams, dont you guys find that all you need to answer the question is in the passage they present you?
the more pain the ass things to learn ar cicero's refernces like Spurius Maelius, he was the free corn dude, rite?
the more pain the ass things to learn ar cicero's refernces like Spurius Maelius, he was the free corn dude, rite?
utopian731
Eudaimonian
You have time for that?
im just hoping to learn the texts before wednesday morning
thanks for the links, my commentary is usually pretty good though
just one question, what does everyone ahve for line 698 in the aeneid
the clause is "et late circum loca sulphure fumant"
now some sources rekon that loca is acc after circum, but no one has then explained why fumant is plural. I think that circum is used adverbially here and loca is in fact plural nom of fumant:
ie: "and far and wide around the places amked with sulfur"
what does everyone rekon?
im just hoping to learn the texts before wednesday morning
thanks for the links, my commentary is usually pretty good though
just one question, what does everyone ahve for line 698 in the aeneid
the clause is "et late circum loca sulphure fumant"
now some sources rekon that loca is acc after circum, but no one has then explained why fumant is plural. I think that circum is used adverbially here and loca is in fact plural nom of fumant:
ie: "and far and wide around the places amked with sulfur"
what does everyone rekon?
utopian731
Eudaimonian
*smoked with sulfur
utopian731
Eudaimonian
We've got the entire book in historic present, except of course the places where people are speaking, such as Sinon and Creusa