clutching at straws... (1 Viewer)

flyin'

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and another thing....

i find aeneid alot harder than cicero ... for me cicero is all the same (and also so monotonous)

and i actually understand cicero unseens while i stuggle with vergil unseens
 

utopian731

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I hear you in those unseens flyin'

thats weird eh?

maybe thats the case because cicero is always talking about the shameful behoviour of some scumbag or his own glorious achievements

we'll see in greek :p
 

flyin'

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other than abusing someone else or praising himself there is really nothing to cicero's speechs ... but how bad would ur feel if you were Catiline or someone on the other side ...

unlike vergil... which could be anything on earth... from war to giants cyclops... dido... sailing... eating tables.... its so unpredicable
 

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Originally posted by flyin'
other than abusing someone else or praising himself there is really nothing to cicero's speechs ... but how bad would ur feel if you were Catiline or someone on the other side ...
If I were Catiline and I had a pompous arrogant ass like Cicero ruling my city I probably would be out gathering conspirators too! Just to rid Rome of all the self-aggrandisement LOL :p
 

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Originally posted by Milly

If I were Catiline and I had a pompous arrogant ass like Cicero ruling my city I probably would be out gathering conspirators too! Just to rid Rome of all the self-aggrandisement LOL :p
so true!
 

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Questions for all you Latin types...

So... "litotic" - is it a word? Or did I just make it up? :p

And what do you guys think of Creusa's death - was it Aeneas' fault for not caring enough to even look back to check on her? Or would it have happened anyway? Any thoughts? I'm finding it sort of difficult to analyse his character - I mean when he starts ranting on at everyone else because Creusa's gone, is it just a sign of his grief or does this show some sort of flaw in his character?
 
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Weisy

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I think the textbook answer to that one would be that Aeneas really had no reign over what happened to Creusa - his personal feelings or actions can not be attributed to his own faults as a person. Creusa's death must happen in order for Aeneas to move on, etc.

I like how Vergil makes Creusa's death seem "poignant" though (for want of a better word :p). I think it was his intention to leave the reader thinking "what if?", but it is clear too that it couldn't have happened any other way.

As for my personal opinion, I think you are well aware of what I think should have happened.

As for 'litotic"...I would rate it well up there, along with "ominousness" (my made up word) and "ludicrousity" (Mr. M's). I say use it! :D
 

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Originally posted by Weisy
As for 'litotic"...I would rate it well up there, along with "ominousness" (my made up word) and "ludicrousity" (Mr. M's). I say use it! :D
Really, Wedge, I'm shocked. How could you forget "enloftening"?
 

utopian731

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its relaly annoying when commentators read so far into the verse

liek aeneas haveing creusa follow behind. All this conjecture over "longe" :)...
i dunno, in our class we just decided that there really is nothing too significant about it. Think about it, the bigger the group, the more noise they make the easier they are to catch. Aeneas couldnt really leave anyone else behind, a little kid or a decrepid old man?

last word on cicero.....
dont worry about him, we all know what happened to his head and hands :)
 

Milly

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I think the textbook answer to that one would be that Aeneas really had no reign over what happened to Creusa - his personal feelings or actions can not be attributed to his own faults as a person. Creusa's death must happen in order for Aeneas to move on, etc.
I see what you mean. But only the big picture destiny (ie. his moenia quaere magna pererrato statues quae denique ponto) is inevitable, right? Which I suppose includes Creusa dying to make room for Lavinia, but I still think all the parameters of destiny are under his control, eg. how he reacts to it (yikes, swap the word "destiny" for "change" and it sounds uncannily like a area of study essay excerpt). Argh, trying not to let this turn into a philosophical discussion of determinism.

liek aeneas haveing creusa follow behind. All this conjecture over "longe" ...
i dunno, in our class we just decided that there really is nothing too significant about it. Think about it, the bigger the group, the more noise they make the easier they are to catch. Aeneas couldnt really leave anyone else behind, a little kid or a decrepid old man?
That's true. Why can I never see things in practical terms? :p I don't know, I just don't like the way when he talks about his fear it's only in relation to Anchises and Ascanius, and when Creusa dies he goes around blaming everyone but himself.

last word on cicero.....
dont worry about him, we all know what happened to his head and hands
Looks like he talked the ears off the wrong people... :D pretty gross though. Pompous ass or not though, it's not a nice way to die...
 

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hey, apparently there are only 14 students in the state doing greek!! woah..... (useless info for ya *g*)


hey there are three topics that we have to know about in the story. Fate, Pathos and Aeneas' character.

We only ever really did fate and pathos. My teacher reckons there's hardly any of Aeneas' character portrayal in Book II. So if they ask anything about his character, i'm dead...

Anyway, just wondering what you guys have discussed about his character?
 
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Milly

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Originally posted by laney
Anyway, just wondering what you guys have discussed about his character?
Not much, really. We (ie. Weisy, our Latin teacher and I - tiny class) spent most of our time having arguments about whether Aeneas is to blame for Creusa's death. If you ask me, one of the major aspects of Aeneas' character you see in this book is his emotional fragility (no, I'm not much of an Aeneas fan) - the idiot just doesn't seem to get the message that he's not allowed to die!! :p He just keeps going out there trying to die the glorious Homeric hero death, like a Hector wannabe :D So in short I think Book 2 is about Aeneas trying to reconcile, or rather subordinate his personal emotional needs to his higher destiny, bla bla bla.
 

Weisy

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Originally posted by Milly

Really, Wedge, I'm shocked. How could you forget "enloftening"?
dunno, just slipped my mind, like so many things these days.

*slaps herself*

Originally posted by laney

Anyway, just wondering what you guys have discussed about his character?
My understanding is that he is inherently fallible, but that being an instrument of destiny, his faults may be disregarded. An important aspect of his characterisation in the story is that he is never fully aware of his own fate, but he is affected by his own sense of piety to fulfill his destiny as determined by the gods. The end of book ii marks an important change in his own perception of himself, as he abandons his role as Trojan warrior as well as his baser instincts to kill and avenge in order to fulfill his destiny.

my question is, did he do this of his own accord, or was it too a side effect of the omnipotent plotting of the deities?

further thoughts would be very welcome. :)
 

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Originally posted by Weisy

my question is, did he do this of his own accord, or was it too a side effect of the omnipotent plotting of the deities?
Ugh... don't want to think about it! Fatalism screws with my head.... :p
 

utopian731

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In reference to the question about Aeneas' characetre, with those sorts of comentary question throughout the exams, dont you guys find that all you need to answer the question is in the passage they present you?

the more pain the ass things to learn ar cicero's refernces like Spurius Maelius, he was the free corn dude, rite?
 

Milly

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Originally posted by utopian731
the more pain the ass things to learn ar cicero's refernces like Spurius Maelius, he was the free corn dude, rite?
Yup yup... killed by Gaius Servilius Ahala, who hid the dagger in his armpit... (that's about all I know... must work on context questions this weeked!)

If you want some good contextual commentary - have a look here and here - I found it quite helpful :)
 

utopian731

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You have time for that?

im just hoping to learn the texts before wednesday morning

thanks for the links, my commentary is usually pretty good though

just one question, what does everyone ahve for line 698 in the aeneid

the clause is "et late circum loca sulphure fumant"
now some sources rekon that loca is acc after circum, but no one has then explained why fumant is plural. I think that circum is used adverbially here and loca is in fact plural nom of fumant:

ie: "and far and wide around the places amked with sulfur"

what does everyone rekon?
 

Weisy

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definitely - "and the places far and wide smoke with sulfur-fumes."

do you translate that in the historic present?
 

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