"Communism is the greatest evil unleashed on humanity" (7 Viewers)

[Zeitgeist308]

I think the greatest thing is, thankfully, we'll never go back towards a socialist/communist state any time in any of our lifetimes.

And this has what to do with the argument sorry? I don't get your point.

Also, if any of you are hankering hell of bad to go live in a Communist/Trotskyist state, go chill out in Cuba, they'd love to have you!

1. Again I don't follow you. What does Cuba have to do with communism?

2. There is no such thing as a "communist state", however the word "Communist state" is a real word which despite it's name refers to countries which are in no way communist. A "Trotskyist State" on the other hand is a phrase which does not exist. Please, would you care to define to me what a Trotskyist state is?

It doesn't work and it'd never work a) because it's a sickening evil that exists to limit self-determination and personal freedoms

Sorry to ask but what proof do you have of this. Maybe you missed Marx when in the Communist Manifesto he said "In place of the old bourgeois society, with its classes and class antagonisms, we shall have an association, in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all."

b) because most of the people (around 95%) are mass-media swilling peon proles who just go with the flow but will get uppity when they have to call the Government 20 times a day to get an AM radio

Again, what was your point here? To belittle and insult "95%" of the population?

Less Government, not more Government.

I agree

To sum up, cut it out with the straw men and please do yourself a favour and go read a book.

wallE came out today!

yay!

Coming up with a real argument is tricky hey. Don't worry, dodging the challenge will make it go away.

government does not work, neither does anarchism.
:-(

I'm getting tired of repeating myself (this applies to Melanieeeee aswell). Please, either make an argument or don't post.

 

[youBROKEmyLIFE]

Being heavily involved and studying Communism is like studying Theology or Alchemy, fucking retarded and 150 years out of date.

 

[youBROKEmyLIFE]

*facepalm*

No wonder the Italians decried the computer machine as Bourgeoise!

 

[Zeitgeist308]

Being heavily involved and studying Communism is like studying Theology or Alchemy, fucking retarded and 150 years out of date.

Sorry, but your still not making an argument. If you want to debate Marxist theory on it's merits I'm all for it, but all your doing right now is proving your own ignorance by your inability to piece together a simple argument.

*facepalm*

No wonder the Italians decried the computer machine as Bourgeoise!

Yeah, sorry. I couldn't work out who to post images, so I gave up.

 

[melanieeeee.]

"the history of all hiterto excisting society is the history of class struggles" (marx & engels 1967:80)

 

[nirvanafreak02]

socialism wins

i'm moving to sweden

 

[zeam]

I agree completely youBROKEmyLIFE.

How evil is it to dangle in front of man the hopes of a truly humane society, knowing that it may never be achieved. Perhaps the greatest evil ever unleashed.

Many have lived their lives hoping for a world free from greed, free from oppression of the poor, free from enslavement of mankind in a system which seeks to exploit them, so that some may live a greater quality of life than others. Sometimes merely being born more fortunate than others, or sometimes much worse off.

The idea of a system where all man is truly equal, where each man and woman has the ability to have everything society has to offer, where every child has the same opportunities in life, where nobody has to go hungry, where nobody has to die the most painful death - the death of lack of food. Perhaps that idea is too good to be true. Perhaps that idea is even evil.

LOL...eberyone equal? LOL...look china where ghetto slum live next to rich businessman...look cuba where not allowed to do a lot of thing we take forgranted...im communism you ar eonly keep alive until you are no longer needed...then you are surplus to requirement and execute by state...please...by all mean go live in communist country and try and speak out against their system like you are speaking out against ours...you will surely be track down and kill

[edited for offensive content]

 

[Zeitgeist308]

socialism wins

i'm moving to sweden

Sweden? Socialism? Did I miss something?

Zeam, I'm guessing you trolling, but I'll give a serious response.

LOL...check out this retard...someone fuck his brain up bad...

I won't disagree with you there

LOL...look china where ghetto slum live next to rich businessman...

1. China was never communist
2. Even the Maoists who recognise China during Mao's rule as being "socialist" recognise that modern china is (and according to them has been since Deng Xiaoping's economic reforms) capitalist.

look cuba where not allowed to do a lot of thing we take forgranted

Once again another strawman. Cuba is not and was never communist.

im communism you ar eonly keep alive until you are no longer needed...then you are surplus to requirement and execute by state

1. Strawman, you even acknowledge this yourself when you note that exploitation of the working class exists in the so-called "Socialist States".
2. Also, please back up your claims with evidence [not that I'm denying the crimes of these (state capitalist) regimes]

 

[zeam]

if china~cuba not communism then~~true communism must be very horrible~~~because china pretty bad as is~~~internet retard like samo thinking communism good~~~LOL~~~get sun
what do u mean by 'strawman'

 

[youBROKEmyLIFE]

Sorry, but your still not making an argument. If you want to debate Marxist theory on it's merits I'm all for it, but all your doing right now is proving your own ignorance by your inability to piece together a simple argument.

Communism, by its very nature, leads to a suppression of a man's right to self determination. You can make all these posturing articles about the doctrines of Marxism but they aren't anything other than empty postulates because we've seen the notions are untenable in the real world, just like full Anarchy. They are outdated tenets and concepts that are promoted by the fringes of society and aren't generally taken very seriously. You criticising me about the ignorance of Marxism is about as intellectually grounded as you having a go at me for improperly reading my tea leaves.

EDIT: Every attempted implementation of Communism is "Oh wait that's not perfect so it's not Communist"

The experiment has failed, it cannot be done, and thank all of the forces that lead to it, because it has maintained the most beautiful aspect of humanity, our freedoms of choice, of agency and of self-determination.

 

[zeam]

Communism, by its very nature, leads to a suppression of a man's right to self determination. You can make all these posturing articles about the doctrines of Marxism but they aren't anything other than empty postulates because we've seen the notions are untenable in the real world, just like full Anarchy. They are outdated tenets and concepts that are promoted by the fringes of society and aren't generally taken very seriously. You criticising me about the ignorance of Marxism is about as intellectually grounded as you having a go at me for improperly reading my tea leaves.

EDIT: Every attempted implementation of Communism is "Oh wait that's not perfect so it's not Communist"

The experiment has failed, it cannot be done, and thank all of the forces that lead to it, because it has maintained the most beautiful aspect of humanity, our freedoms of choice, of agency and of self-determination.

even though this chick fmale me in other post i agree here what saying about communism fails...attempted implementation many times and always fails

 

[Zeitgeist308]

what do u mean by 'strawman'

Straw man

Communism, by its very nature, leads to a suppression of a man's right to self determination.

On what basis do you make this claim? Would you care to define for us all what "communism" and it's "nature" is? Would you care to define "man's right to self-determination"?

They are outdated tenets and concepts that are promoted by the fringes of society and aren't generally taken very seriously.

The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production, so that thereby, generally speaking, the ideas of those who lack the means of mental production are subject to it. The ruling ideas are nothing more than the ideal expression of the dominant material relationships, the dominant material relationships grasped as ideas. - Marx, The German Ideology

You criticising me about the ignorance of Marxism is about as intellectually grounded as you having a go at me for improperly reading my tea leaves.

Sorry but I'm not exactly sure what you mean here. The fact of the matter is you have chosen to criticise a vast and complex school of thought and political ideology without even a basic understanding of it.

Every attempted implementation of Communism is "Oh wait that's not perfect so it's not Communist"

Communism is not a program which is "implemented". Please see my signature.

I'm not for a second going to defend the so called Communist states. But when you criticise communism and Marxism using them as evidence in support of your case you are making a logically fallacious argument.

The experiment has failed

Communism is not an experiment. It is "the real movement which abolishes the present state of things", a product of the irreconcilable class antagonisms of capitalist society.

it cannot be done

See again despite your attempt at an argument it is still fundamentally based on this assertion which you provide no evidence for.

it has maintained the most beautiful aspect of humanity, our freedoms of choice, of agency and of self-determination.

What is this "freedom of choice" you speak of? Freedom to choose what? My exploiter and master? If this is your "vision" of freedom I want none of it.

And what of self-determination? Where do you come to the understanding that self-determination is contrary to communism? If I must re-quote Marx:

In place of the old bourgeois society, with its classes and class antagonisms, we shall have an association, in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all. - Marx, The Manefesto of the Communist Party
​

attempted implementation many times and always fails

The failure of the revolutionary workers movement hitherto is a complex issue and can not be put down to socialism's supposed "un-workability". But even assuming, for the sake of argument that this was the reality, you can not stop the revolutionary movement. So long as you have a society of class antagonisms you will have struggles which inevitably culminate in revolution. The past 150 years has seen more revolutionary activity from the working class than ever before, but also more set backs and degenerations of this movement. But nevertheless the struggle goes on and will continue to go on so long as classes exist.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

i am not greedy
i am a communist

TO EACH ACCORDING TO HIS NEEDS
FROM EACH ACCORDING TO HIS ABILITIES

or wateva. ive read das kapital
<_<
>_>
<_<

 

[Zeitgeist308]

Communism will never work because it will always be human nature to be greedy.

You make a very convincing argument indeed.

Sarcasm aside, like every other post in this thread hitherto:

1. Define "communism"
2. Provide evidence to support your assertion that humans are "greedy" by "nature"
3. Explain why humanity's "inherent greedy" runs contrary to the realisation of a communist mode of production

When you do all these three, then and only then do you have an argument which is meaningful and is worth a proper response.

ive read das kapital

I ordered a hard copy of Amazon a couple of day back, it should arrive next week

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Oh thats serious business comrade.

Also that time where you complained about Melanie.

Haha. Seriously though she was the worst tutor ever in the worst subject ever. hated her.

 

[untouchablecuz]

2. Provide evidence that it isn't. Even though it isn't (which im not saying that it isnt) the majority of people are greedy which is evident with all the corruption that is happening and is explored in the media. Just buy a newspaper for one day and see for yourself

LOGICAL FALLACY MAN, TO THE RESCUE! *KHWOOOOOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH*

Comrade, I believe you are shifting the burden of proof!

 

[zstar]

You young people who tout Communism as "great" are misguided.

It's a form of slavery and repression.

The "workers paradise" theory is bogus, Government is corrupt and big governments are the most corrupt.

My family came from Communist countries and my relatives nearly starved to death for the "common good".

The Communists are liars who force you to worship them and you become a slave to them.

Free markets and liberty are the greatest gift countries like Australia has and you will never starve to death in this country nor will you fear your government putting a gun to your head and forcing you believe what they believe.

Socialism is slavery because the workers paradise is an illusion not a reality. Human nature makes it impossible for us to be all equal and therefore the best thing we can do is rely on our own abilities and not on government handouts.

It's a Jewish system made up my leftist Jews. Its leaders were the same people who run America today and ran the USSR decades ago.

 

[untouchablecuz]

You young people who tout Communism as "great" are misguided.

It's a form of slavery and repression.

The "workers paradise" theory is bogus

Those damn zionists.

huh, i didn't quote that

 

[HNAKXR]

zo if ve oversimplify:
proletariat greed brings about communism and bourgeois greed brings about its collapse?

 

[Towelie]

Towelie says remove the scarcity on a few key things and suddenly you realise capitalism and communism are so 20th century. We are already approaching universal education, universal food security, and universal shelter in the Western world. The next step is universal connectivity and bandwidth. And then you follow the exponential growth of Moore's law all the way to the technological singularity. Ride the wave of disruptive tech, maaan!

It ain't no joke I'd like to buy the world a toke.