Compulsory uni service fees to be reintroduced (2 Viewers)

[katie tully]

Maybe it is a false alarm.

Got my pitch fork ready just incase.

 

[Riet]

If unionism becomes compulsory I'll start a society dedicated to burning effigies.

 

[bigboyjames]

another bullshit initiative from Krudd.

 

[chicky_pie]

Another tax grab for the Rudd Government.

 

[12th man]

Re: Compulsory university student fees to be reintroduced

If you did your HSC in 06... went to uni in 07... you most definitely did not see USU.

or i just entered false info into my profile

 

[12th man]

Another tax grab for the Rudd Government.

dont know whether youre joking or not (and i dont like rudd but do like this particular policy); but rudd doesnt see any of the money

 

[Slidey]

You think that'll work? It seems rather odd anyway, just give people their money and let them vote with their wallet. I mean... the NUS is claiming students are up in outrage by submitting 160 stories to the minister but I think the bigger sample to look at has to be the some 90% who have decided they don't want to be a part of the union.

I accept that the majority don't want to pay a student fee. But the majority of people don't want to pay taxes, either. That doesn't automatically make it a good idea to eliminate taxes (certainly, it's a bad idea, as that is how workfare and healthcare safety nets are funded)

I care far more about whether or not VSU has actually damaged sporting and social activities.

So far I've heard conflicting reports from both sides. It's mostly anecdotal. Some people seem to think that the louder they yell about how bad/good student unionism is, the more it will convince people.

I'm more inclined to side with the anti-VSU side, though, in that it makes logical sense that less money = less to spend on sporting and social activities.

I am completely against funding student politics, but I am for funding sporting, student advocacy and social activities.

Certainly, student unionism as it used to be needed a big kick in the arse, which Howard provided.

 

[zstar]

That's the price we pay for voting a leftist in.

More taxes, Less freedom to make a decision and more state control.

There's gonna be more of this coming soon kids.

 

[Enteebee]

But the majority of people don't want to pay taxes, either.

The majority of people do want at least some of the services taxes provide though, in that they use them or feel pleased that they benefit others sort of like charity. Obviously some people may only want to use less or more than others but no matter what if you are a member of Australian society you are benefiting from our taxation scheme in some way so you have to play the game imo, especially since the majority do want to keep these services running. I think this is quite different to university services where people truly can deride absolutely no benefit throughout their entire degree and the majority do not desire the services.

edit: I will also acknowledge that there are things which perhaps very few people desire to be paid for and which give no benefit to many people but are however perhaps generally good things... i.e. Perhaps even if most people wouldn't want funding to the muslim society of western sydney or something it may serve a form of public good. This same principle could be used in the case of services provided by student unions, but I just don't feel like such an organisation should be set up purely for such things, in the case of our government it is already there for the important stuff (hospitals etc etc) so we might as well swing a few extra dollars to such minor causes, but in the case of student unions it would seem to be a system set up purely for such things...

 

[Kwayera]

Also, I don't know any other union that has compulsary membership and fees for those in its industry. Do you?

 

[katie tully]

Also, I don't know any other union that has compulsary membership and fees for those in its industry. Do you?

Nursing?

Edit: Atleast they used to. Not sure will check.

 

[spiny norman]

The majority of people do want at least some of the services taxes provide though, in that they use them or feel pleased that they benefit others sort of like charity. Obviously some people may only want to use less or more than others but no matter what if you are a member of Australian society you are benefiting from our taxation scheme in some way so you have to play the game imo, especially since the majority do want to keep these services running.

If taxation became voluntary, though, do you not think you'd similarly see a number somewhere up near 90% of people stopping paying them?

Surely if you're attending a university campus you'll get something out of the union presence? I think the majority of students would, at some stage, use union services. You can choose not to, of course, but the option is there, and its provision makes for a better uni lifestyle and a more communal thing going on there, rather than people showing up, learning and going home.

I think this is quite different to university services where people truly can deride absolutely no benefit throughout their entire degree and the majority do not desire the services.

So if I don't like where the majority of my taxes are going (say, roads I'll never use, or to fund the military in a war in the Middle East I don't support) can I not have to pay taxes on it? Or only pay the amount that will benefit me? Why should my money ever help someone else who may need it?

Also, I don't know any other union that has compulsary membership and fees for those in its industry. Do you?

Student unions and trade unions are hardly the same thing.

 

[Enteebee]

If taxation became voluntary, though, do you not think you'd similarly see a number somewhere up near 90% of people stopping paying them?

No I don't, I think if you told people "Either pay your taxes or you do not get to use our roads/hospitals/etc" they would pay them. What you have with VSU is people being told "Either pay your fees or don't get the benefits of the union" and they're not... so yeah I think they're quite different.

Surely if you're attending a university campus you'll get something out of the union presence? I think the majority of students would, at some stage, use union services.

Such as? A little bit of extra happiness or whatever? Hell you let me keep the $200 and I'll have more money to pay for my textbooks, that'll make me loads more happy.

rather than people showing up, learning and going home.

What about people showing up, learning, then going to work so they can pay for their learning, going to spend time with people in their life that they really care for etc so they can maintain a proper relationship with them? Not everyone wants the university club/society lifestyle, in fact if everyone did then the societies would be in the exact same position that they are now, the only reason they're strapped for cash is because they're not getting the excess funds of people who don't derive the same benefit.

So if I don't like where the majority of my taxes are going (say, roads I'll never use, or to fund the military in a war in the Middle East I don't support) can I not have to pay taxes on it?

I dealt with this... Basically no you have to pay for things even if you don't like them you a) Like some things and see the need for such a government structure to exist and b) The majority of people tend to like most of the things.

 

[Kwayera]

Student unions and trade unions are hardly the same thing.

A union is a union. It should help those who choose to be its members, and not financially punish those who otherwise wouldn't.

 

[AlleyCat]

the thing is, i understand that some people want community activities and such, but ultimately these are not essential, nor are they ruled out with VSU (or simply joining clubs individually, which may be the same thing.)

on the other hand, free or cheap medical services to benefit students are very important, and were all but missing from my old uni (RMIT) but my current one seems to have a nurse, free GP referral and dental bulk billing, so i dont really see any reason at all to reinstate CSU.

kids at RMIT used to bitch about it all the time, but my uni now just seems to get on with it and work out ways for us to have our beer clubs and our sporting teams without CSU.

 

[katie tully]

thats because charles sturt is a great uni, contrary to popular belief

 

[AlleyCat]

thats because charles sturt is a great uni, contrary to popular belief

word.

but really, is it only charles sturt? they just get the fuck on with it, and stop whinging.

 

[spiny norman]

A union is a union. It should help those who choose to be its members, and not financially punish those who otherwise wouldn't.

So is a credit union the same as the other two? Or a civil union? You're taking the word "union" and associating it with completely different organisations. The links are minimal.

 

[katie tully]

So is a credit union the same as the other two? Or a civil union? You're taking the word "union" and associating it with completely different organisations. The links are minimal.

Nah, now you're just being a child, playing silly semantics.

You know exactly what she means.

 

[Enteebee]

So is a credit union the same as the other two? Or a civil union? You're taking the word "union" and associating it with completely different organisations. The links are minimal.

Oh jesus christ hahahhaha Truly you could just explain why it is you feel student unions should be compulsory and not industrial unions. I mean there does seem to be rather similar benefits to members of the industrial unions, right? There is an argument here, but you're not making it and I won't make it for you.