Defending Discrimination. For eyes only. (1 Viewer)

jezzmo

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The rant at the bottom of this post is an addendum and written separately in response to a facebook post that criticised a childrens cartoon for racial profiling. But the blunt angle of my vent and inquiry way up here is moreso inspired from enduring a fair gang of feminist-themed posts recently- and these words are funded by the sleep deprived, distraction-based outrage I own and loathe to see in all other hypocrites and torres strait islanders.

I find myself increasingly jaded by the common tendency for simple, innocuous statements to be tainted and transformed into something more sinister by any critic with an identity agenda on the tip of their enthusiastic outrage. An anecdote that refers to a woman in a feminine way, (or the failsafe: an anecdote with an absence of women in the details) - can be effortlessly construed into an attack on or neglect of half the gen pop. It is seemingly futile to defend any accusation of this kind. With your values and moral deviance on trial, any retort you deliver is unreliable and crass.

[Situational Update]
**That fickle flashmob gathered outside of your perceptual range has sensed that unrepenting faux pas you just spilled. They have stopped sexting nubiles just to glare at you rapingly with a mindspace full of contempt fuelled by the now universally accepted and immutable judgement of your character. To kick the gimp while he's down, your family's reputation has been tarnished and a football club of your namesake reports lower attendance figures and unfortunate weather this season. **

Kangaroo court will always rule against your kind. Reason is trumped by the passionate cries of the delusionally persecuted.

On the flip, I don't encounter a great deal of obvious trait discrimination in any of my daily encounters and as such, I fail to observe any significant harm to a pokeable-person-beyond-the-concept when I satirise callously with reference to any and all minorities. I rule that verbal attacks are fair game to anything that can be called at with a word to noose its essence. Here I am talking about statements that ARE intended to direct attention to and make assumptions about a common trait, for purposes of kudos, joke or criticism. In this case, to offend the loner is a little more expected and allowed for and encouraging ; but no physical, non-trivially emotional or institutionalised harms are intended (tact and discretion apply). This goes beyond my initial argument, and is a little more murky but, with the exception of sooky amputees and frigid nuns - I argue that the existence of any significant tangible effects are in question here if the purpose and outcome of your words do not carry and subvert a persons social standing without merit or relevance in the situational context you find yourself rambling in. Without hurt, there is no crime. No compensation or pity hugs awarded.

Anywho - so you real people out there, removed from the comfort of the philosophers chair. You arrived on a boat or maybe your nose is stingy and your wallet is long. You had to take a second mortgage to plug your enthusiastic menstrual flow and demanded additional assistance from Medicare but all you got was an unsympathetic Sydney Swans scarf. Or maybe you're just a bit of an autistic cunt, raging inappropriately at the unsual question marks to vowel ratio going on at the moment. This contemplative, heartless nutjob wants to hear anger and tears (alternatively, smugly bathing in the absence of any emotion is more than welcome). Those of you who feel legit persecuted in some way, (whether in your broken mind or in a viable reality we can set pragmatic laws and customs to), stop being weak and trampled on like the genetic deadend of the full-time victim you would have accepted that you are by now if we stopped putting so much sugar on all your feel-good cupcakes. Speak up against this.

The cards are out. Purgatory is off the table. Speak, offend, be offended. Is political correctness going to improve the daily grind in your squatters den? Is it wrong to cast a glum jobless shadow where a winning white light reflects the consensus? If that consensus is way off beam, or perpetuates itself - do we have a duty to provide anomalies and shake up the sleeping prejudices - to throw a spanner into the unthinking motion of naive american indian stereotyping? Is my neglect to capitalise "indian" reflective of an insidious indifference to the race or does it call into scrutiny my primitive proofreading skills, courtesy of a lower class education and early-onset gambling addiction? Can I decide that or do you? Or is it enough to stop at good intentions and a genuine attempt to reserve all prejudice in our actions and individual compassion - allowing for the sloppy adjective and familiar caricature here and there to get the one-dimensional disney story out to the world, with more accessibility and less irrelevant friction to the fiction. [Solid word play- with a lapse of conviction! Bro, 'dis hebrew nigga got rhyme and dope diction.]

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If you have a hundred circles and a hundred squares drawn by Polish children with poorly developed hand-eye coordination, and only a brief moment to describe and distinguish them - a reasonable but flawed noncelestial being might have them called circles and squares and describe their collective traits accordingly, even if no single instance is an exact form of, and cared for intimately by, the single word definition you assign it. A value judgement should not be assumed, or prejudice necessarily inferred to criticise the process of induction - even if you have misgivings about round objects; a circle stole your candy when you were a loopy ankle-biter, perhaps? (Did it have any edges? The good old days are a bit hazy but you're pretty sure it was all curve. Squares aren't the klepto type). I would make no objection to a jazz-tooting negro calling me that white guy if I am the only honky conversing with a group of naturally Mumbai born convenience store employees. If it's a 50/50 mix, narrow down the traits - that fat, balding white guy with the attitude might return a more functional search result. Discrimination is efficient - it is crude and inaccurate and littered with prejudice but it is very much necessary. A cartoon made for children should keep its themes simple to get the point across. Black and white is simple. I think it's fair to assume it won't take much life experience for most of us to conclude that not all black people have sorcerous tendencies - the inability to learn as much is moreso a cognitive limitation than a product of television. But perhaps we do need more ill-fitted wheelchair bound, suit wearing, white sorcerors with bad table manners yet outstanding archery skills from New York in our viewing schedule - if only to keep our generalisations alert to ongoing scrutiny, ensuring we treat each stranger we meet with our best attempt at the no-assumption policy. If I could summarise without omission- this entire argument with a single keystroke of punctuation, I will,
 

boris

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What I got from your argument is that we should keep children's media simple so they don't get confused. Which, if that is indeed what you are implying, I completely disagree with.
lol shit son
way off the mark
 

boris

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waiot what even how did you arrive at that conclusion
 

jezzmo

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What I got from your argument is that we should keep children's media simple so they don't get confused. Which, if that is indeed what you are implying, I completely disagree with.
You have simplified my words into a conveniently brief summary. However offended I may be at the alleged inaccuracies, your shortcuts are the play here with which I base most of the argument. I will defend you in court, with so much paper and obscure quotes and law-defeating things that Plato might have said but didn't write down.

In context, the cartoon in point was something vagueness about a black pony who does sorcery and the white ponies are a bit freaked out at first by this gypsie strange pony who is a bit scary and does things differently and is OPENLY BLACK. Then black pony turns out ace and white ponies are like yay - I have learnt not to judge a book by its cover. You scared me a bit at first, black pony, an innate fear of the unknown but now I AM A WHITE PONY OF VIRTUE, holding back the hate for the thing we are all thinking but nobody is saying, because we all know that everyone is thinking it but you can't say it. That imposter pony is BLACK. TBH, I thought black pony was a bit sexy and i'm thinking about colourful pony bits, but we must stick to focusing on the colour of the pony. Because that's what we are supposed to see in everything unjust - the implied socio-political nightmares under the surface that brew in what the naive might think was just a simple tale with a positive message, like a modest cup of peppermint tea. Cold and undaring.

The accusation was that this new pony was african and black and did sorcery - playing on what we are all thinking when we see a black person, apparently. A simple story that preaches tolerance has become a racist monstrosity, by those who focus on the irrelevant and "latent yet overtly offensive racial stereotypes" - and call for a pendulum swing, where women drink all the beer while men cook delicious salad and nobody says anything about it being a little different than usual. Because it's not, and to think so - you are a sinner. Fucking sinner.
 
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Annihilist

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You have simplified my words into a conveniently brief summary. However offended I may be at the alleged inaccuracies, your shortcuts are the play here. I will defend you in court, with so much paper and law quotes and law-defeating things that Plato might have said but didn't write down.

In context, the cartoon in point was something vagueness about a black pony who does sorcery and the white ponies are a bit freaked out at first by this gypsie strange pony who is a bit scary and does things differently and is OPENLY BLACK. Then black pony turns out ace and white ponies are like yay - I have learnt not to judge a book by its cover. You scared me a bit at first, black pony, an innate fear of the unknown but now I AM A WHITE PONY OF VIRTUE, holding back the hate for the thing we are all thinking but nobody is thinking - that the pony is black. TBH, I thought black pony was a bit sexy and i'm thinking about colourful pony bits, but we must stick to focusing on the colour of the pony. Because that's what we are supposed to see in everything unjust - the implied socio-political nightmares that brew in what looked to me like a modest cup of peppermint tea. Cold and undaring.
The accusation was that this new pony was african and black and did sorcery - playing on what we are all thinking when we see a black person, apparently. A simple story that preaches tolerance has become a racist monstrosity, by those who focus on the irrelevant, "latent yet overtly offensive racial stereotypes" - issues that
I've already stated that I grossly misunderstood your post. Upon re-evaluation, I do in fact agree with what you said.
 

funkshen

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why did you have to bring slavs into this
 

soloooooo

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Racisim is not cool. Although nor is reverse racism.

I.e. people of X race are happy to call someone a racist yet will then mouth off against another race and think they are not racist. The worst I have noticed for this is basically everyone who is not white. White people have to be overly cautious these days while lots of other races are racist against white people.
 

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I'm not sure what anyone can really contribute to this as you've already answered your own question, Jezz. The best I could say to this is that I agree with the sentiment that people with agendas and identity crises are too sensitive about harmless characterisation. They're more than willing to infer sinister meaning when it plainly and simply doesn't exist. The only thing worse than that, however, is any outlet with the power to change the publication of such a thing giving a platform to such over sensitive crazies. You should have the right to say and write what you want, not a right to silence anything you don't want to hear.
 

jezzmo

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Racisim is not cool. Although nor is reverse racism.

I.e. people of X race are happy to call someone a racist yet will then mouth off against another race and think they are not racist. The worst I have noticed for this is basically everyone who is not white. White people have to be overly cautious these days while lots of other races are racist against white people.
**Basically everyone who is not white ... [insert biography]
**White people have to be overly cautious these days.

I'm all for a good line crossing, but this might, if to be taken as genuine beliefs, be a point of concern - in terms of the near-to-blank cheque you wrote.
I also can recall a lot of enemy skins preaching their unashamedly racist foundations in taxi's and mosques - but me thinks we remember them loud bigots who think by speaking and then we dismiss or fail to tally the quiet, polite and tolerant others whose insignificant contribution make no dent in our perception. Shakers and movers get to write the trait specs for whatever characteristic they have that is helping you to classify them. But yes, I've had a fair few experiences with the racists crying about racists. And people whining about angry customers before, without pause, abusing the nearest food outlet acne merchant - i haven't worked out the algorithm or any useful pattern to reliably identify them, but i'm fair sure that less than 10% of us are actually sentient and the rest are just plants.
 
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soloooooo

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"reverse racism" is simply the oppressed acting out at white privilege. The very system you're born into is structured in such a way as to give white people an immediate advantage in almost every facet of life (except for rape and murder.) As long as this is true, non-whites cannot be racist.
You're an idiot and a racist then.
 

jezzmo

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I'm not sure what anyone can really contribute to this as you've already answered your own question, Jezz.
In terms of a segued semi-reasoned argument, I've provided my current stance. Ultimately I want to hear from the opponents - people who experience REAL racism and sexism etc.

Some argue that unspecific jokes in jest about domestic violence thrown around in pub banter can make women feel more ashamed to report their genuine case - that they read into the conversation that we think its ok by joking. And further claims that if men in a group joke about it, an offender will be comforted in the "eh, it's no big deal. a few slaps to sort er out is the thing to do" mentality - instead of making it clear that the common consensus (hopefully) is a firm "Nup. Not cool. Not acceptable. Ever". Is it the presence of the joke or the absence of the serious discussion that is doing the/more harm?

Basically I just want to hear from victims - an emotional, personal response to their own circumstances where words that seem innocuous to us have created hidden harm. Being from south africa I tend to treat racism in current australia as a pseudo-racism- insignificant in comparison. And feminism needs better spokespeople - alienating men while convincing the converted seems to be the common play. No progress in sight.

Today is such a keyboard day. Smashing keys, hoping for a thought, reflect if time before the next segue permits. Maybe I'll tease a wasp nest. Wasp, as in animal, not the acronym. But now I'm thinking of the acronym. It's all about the acronym. I have made it about the acronym. The rules have changed.
 

Lolsmith

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Some argue that unspecific jokes in jest about domestic violence thrown around in pub banter can make women feel more ashamed to report their genuine case - that they read into the conversation that we think its ok by joking. And further claims that if men in a group joke about it, an offender will be comforted in the "eh, it's no big deal. a few slaps to sort er out is the thing to do" mentality - instead of making it clear that the common consensus (hopefully) is a firm "Nup. Not cool. Not acceptable. Ever". Is it the presence of the joke or the absence of the serious discussion that is doing the/more harm?
I would definitely say that the lack of distinct boundaries in this sort of area is more harmful than black humour around it. There was some article about domestic offenders I read in relation to Chris Brown being a fuckwit, where they were interviewed about their abusive behaviour and most of them said that they wouldn't do "x" because it crossed a line for them. The obvious meaning of this is that slapping a woman in the face or something of the sort is actually okay and justified, whilst say, throwing her to the floor, isn't. It doesn't really make sense to someone like you or I because we've established in some way, shape, form or time that physical abuse of anyone just isn't on. Having a joke about giving your girlfriend a few "love taps" doesn't create or exacerbate the problem, imo.

Basically I just want to hear from victims - an emotional, personal response to their own circumstances where words that seem innocuous to us have created hidden harm. Being from south africa I tend to treat racism in current australia as a pseudo-racism- insignificant in comparison. And feminism needs better spokespeople - alienating men while convincing the converted seems to be the common play. No progress in sight.
Yeah I'm also interested in that. I doubt you'll find anyone coherent or willing enough to give some sort of story about their experiences. I have friends that have experienced heckling on the street before due to their ethnicity. "Go back to where you came from" and all the like. In such an occasion it's pretty clear that they're trying to offend someone and they're knuckle-dragging apes; people of no consequence. It still paints an extremely different picture of a nation and its people compared to their Caucasian friend who has never, and probably will never, experience active racism.

On feminism though, I think that there are plenty of women out there that are fantastic examples of people who succeed in different aspects of life. You've got Sabine Wolf for example who's doing well for herself over at the IPA, you've got Gail Kelly running Westpac, Aung San Suu Kyi, Julia Gillard, Hillary Clinton. There are a myriad of women who are fucking exemplary in their accomplishments and contributions to the image of women, but they don't actively pursue a "feminist" role or platform and they aren't touted as being successful *women*. Especially not when you can have someone preaching hilariously unrealistic notions of inequality that occur in the first world, to the extent where women are still second class citizens in the eyes of society (they're not). Once again, it's a problem of platform and perception, not an issue with the cause itself.
 

boris

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That is an excellent point. Im too busy being a young middle class white male so maybe there is an aspect of this that does really affect people and i will never share their pain (lol)
 

funkshen

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if you put enough knuckle-dragging apes; people of no consequence together, you get a cronulla riot. as an urbane young aristocrat is wont to do, lolsmith ponders "so when does quantity become quality". of course, he wouldn't be caught dead in the shire. nonetheless he can relate to the everyman's struggle.
 
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Lolsmith

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That is an excellent point. Im too busy being a young middle class white male so maybe there is an aspect of this that does really affect people and i will never share their pain (lol)
if you put enough knuckle-dragging apes; people of no consequence together, you get a cronulla riot. as an urbane young aristocrat is wont to do, lolsmith ponders "so when does quantity become quality". of course, he wouldn't be caught dead in the shire. nonetheless he can relate to the everyman's struggle.
my god
 

soloooooo

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if you put enough knuckle-dragging apes; people of no consequence together, you get a cronulla riot. as an urbane young aristocrat is wont to do, lolsmith ponders "so when does quantity become quality". of course, he wouldn't be caught dead in the shire. nonetheless he can relate to the everyman's struggle.
The Cronulla riots were obviously bad although the principle behind them was good in nature. Australia is losing its cultural identity. We are being overtaken by immigrants who then force their way of life onto us. Multiculturalism is good up to a point - that point has long ago been surpassed however.
 

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The Cronulla riots were obviously bad although the principle behind them was good in nature. Australia is losing its cultural identity. We are being overtaken by immigrants who then force their way of life onto us. Multiculturalism is good up to a point - that point has long ago been surpassed however.
Are you not free to practice whichever way of life you choose?

Are you really so naive to have your life influenced so heavily by a few immigrants?
 

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