Disadvantage going to UWS? or not? (2 Viewers)

[stazi]

yes that's all well and good, but that doesn't 'prove' anything as the people who generally believe this UAI=intelligence crap are either School students or "early year" uni students... what they think does not equate to what employers think and since this thread was about whether you'll be disadvantages going to uws.. unless you are the most emotional person in the world, you won't be disadvanatged by this perception of school students and the like... the only disadvantage will be to your ego or whatever and that wasn't really what this topic was about....

besides - if you are worried about that - since people think UAI=intelligence, just tell them your UAI yes there's a lot of lower UAI's at UWS but equally there's a lot of 90+s despite popular belief.... and then there's those students who are postgrads etc who did their original degree at the so called "smarter" unis but chose UWS for their postgrad degree for whatever reason...

there's dozens of ways to quell that myth with just one simple sentence...

Stop making assumptions. He never said 'UAI=Intelligence'. He said that generally a lower level of UAI marks = lower performing students (in school). Thus, one can easily make the assumption that these students perform lower in uni as they have less motivation and drive. There will, of course, be exceptions. However, generally speaking, the students that go to UWS are lower performers.
(Edit: oh and I don't believe UAI = intelligence either, as I can give you empirical proof as to why it only tests ONE type of intelligence and that others exist as well - plus there's philosophical inferences into intelligence as well that exist.)

As for postgrad, students will primarily only pick UWS as it's cheap or they can't get into the other institutions. I would love to hear someone do an MBA at UWS willingly

 

[Tuna]

Prestige and the fact that its easier to get into a UWS course - which indirectly equates to lower-performing students.

Sorry but what you're thinking is wrong.

Im not saying that going to UWS is a definite "okay he's an idiot" response

No you don't, but you are afraid to say it. Deep down inside you would want to.

And truthfully, this is pretty much the way it is. UWS students are generally lower in intelligence (remember, people still think UAI=Intelligence).

You're very aggrogant. You will learn the hard way through life.
Sadly there are people who still think UAI = Intelligence.

May I please use you as an example?

 

[erawamai]

besides - if you are worried about that - since poeople think UAI=intelligence, just tell them your UAI yes there's a lot of lower UAI's at UWS but equally there's a lot of 90+s despite popular belief.... and then there's those students who are postgrads etc who did their original degree at the so called "smarter" unis but chose UWS for their postgrad degree for whatever reason...

there's dozens of ways to quell that myth with just one simple sentence...

Oddly enough Cvmail stills asks for your uai.

For larab
This post is not intended to imply or infer that uws is a bad university or that all graduates from uws are doomed to miserable failure. It is merely an observation or comment that is not intended to pass judgment on the merit of those who attend uws or on the university itself. Please do not jump down my throat like I insulted your mother.

 

[Tuna]

Thus, one can easily make the assumption that these students perform lower in uni as they have less motivation and drive.

There's no 'thus'. Where does it come from? UAI is a reflection on how much students put effort in highschool. GPA reflects their performance in unis.

Who will make the assumption?
I could only gather that you. You made the assumption that people have assumptions about low uai cut-offs. Get it?

 

[LaraB]

Stop making assumptions. He never said 'UAI=Intelligence'. He said that generally a lower level of UAI marks = lower performing students (in school). Thus, one can easily make the assumption that these students perform lower in uni as they have less motivation and drive. There will, of course, be exceptions. However, generally speaking, the students that go to UWS are lower performers.
(Edit: oh and I don't believe UAI = intelligence either, as I can give you empirical proof as to why it only tests ONE type of intelligence and that others exist as well - plus there's philosophical inferences into intelligence as well that exist.)

As for postgrad, students will primarily only pick UWS as it's cheap or they can't get into the other institutions. I would love to hear someone do an MBA at UWS willingly

you either didn't read or understand what i said..

i did not say he said uai=intelligence... my comments were referring to those who do believe that, just as he was talking about "people who think UAI=intelligence"

plus - assuming that lower uai people have 'less drive' is just bs... i went to a selective school ie filled with people who lived to study and worked their asses off everyday.. most do law/med/int studies/actuarial all that kinda crap, and heaps more from my school are failling or not turning up to class or quitting or taking a year off etc than kids from other schools who based on these assumptions have "less drive"...

there are not as few exceptins to that "rule" as you all make out, but since you don't go to the uni and know the people you wouldn't know that...

and no - most postgrad's don't pick uws as it's 'cheap'.. but again - you wouldn't have a clue about that because you don't actually attend the uni or know these people.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Yea but hopefully UWS won't do that, because we need a large, low-entry requirement uni.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Well UWS does have lower cut offs... but we also take in a lot more people. I don't think it's much of a stretch of the imagination to think that many high-uai students from the greater west would pick uws over the other universities due to travel.

 

[AsyLum]

We can settle this easily:
Will you be disadvantaged by going to UWS? Yes, probably so.
Will you be disadvantaged by going to another university? Yes, perhaps.
Will you be automatically guaranteed a job because of your university? Maybe, but unlikely, this is called discrimination.
Will people change their views on UWS? Probably, but it'll be slow, and like other things will take time.
Will people attack it because of 'prestige'? Yes, it is still lodged in the psyche that these things are important for some people.
Does it degrade you as a person for going to UWS? No.
Does going to USYD/UNSW/UTS/MQ make you a better person? Most likely not.

So the real question here is, will the course at UWS satisfy the requirements that you need to get a job, and it really depends, much like any other uni, each one has its strengths and weaknesses. UWS is still fairly new, and will take some time to improve its ratings.

Now let the issue die, 15 pages of shit-fights and calls for uni-measuring contests is about as childish as the GPS schools vying for 'prestige.'

 

[Demandred]

It's a bit ironic, here we have a university located within the poorer parts of Sydney which aims to maintain some sort of equity within society through a lower UAI, and it gets bagged for it.

It's not like everyone that comes out of UWS is unemployed, people do get decent positions in big firms, it's just comes down how well you do. I'm really getting the impression around these forums that people think they would be able to get into big firms just by the reputation of the university. While it may help, in the end, it is really your marks.

However, in the end, ceteris parabis, a D average at UNSW is better than a D average at UWS, but it does not mean a C average at UNSW is better than a D average at UWS.

Oh btw, hey NTB, did you successfully transfer? or you're still one of us?

 

[erawamai]

plus - assuming that lower uai people have 'less drive' is just bs... i went to a selective school ie filled with people who lived to study and worked their asses off everyday.. most do law/med/int studies/actuarial all that kinda crap, and heaps more from my school are failling or not turning up to class or quitting or taking a year off etc than kids from other schools who based on these assumptions have "less drive"...

The first step to people actually taking you seriously when you complain about unfair generalisations would be to stop generalising yourself.

Stazi is making assumptions about UAI and personal drive. He is even nice enough to explain the logic which gets him to his conclusion. You do the exact same thing by making assumptions and drawing the opposite conclusions to Stazi. However you don't think outloud and type down your reasoning. You just go ahead and make an assumption. How the hell are you any different to him?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Oh btw, hey NTB, did you successfully transfer? or you're still one of us?

Yea I'm still at UWS, UTS law faculty rejected my questionaire, I lied for the 'community' section and I think they found out Either that or it's because I'm from UWS.

I heard you transferred to macquarie tho?

 

[Demandred]

I decided not to, I didn't like the prospect of doing 4 units of hardcore maths which I had to fork out from my own pocket. I convinced my bro to transfer to Macq Law though.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

All I want to remind diehard supporters of UWS such as LaraB and others is this; if you had achieved a higher UAI would you have gone to UWS?

I think larab did get a 96 or a 98... some other uws law student got like 98.9 also :/
Considering the scholarships they can get, perhaps proximity etc.. I don't think it's a far fetched idea.

 

[AsyLum]

All I want to remind diehard supporters of UWS such as LaraB and others is this; if you had achieved a higher UAI would you have gone to UWS? I think we all know that if those UWS students did get 90+, they too wouldn't have considered the place.

The problem you have is you keep bringing up the same points, and there are just too many variables for them to be of any real significance.

You're presuming too much, heck you havent even started uni yet and you're making judgements on those who are in their third years.

 

[sarevok]

UWS is a uni supposed to provide opportunities to people in GWS. I'm not generalising that students in western sydney schools get lower UAI's than students in other parts if Sydney, but it can usually be the case. Thats why they have special entry schemes for these students, and offer more places, so people can have a greater chance of getting into uni. I will say it again, not everyone gets to go to uni.

Why should people who don't put the effort into getting higher UAIs get to go to uni? I live in North Parramatta, went to a public school in Western Sydney, and am one of the few students in my school who got a UAI of 90+...the reason for this being that the other students were all lazy fucks who barely did any work. Now most of these students are going to the Uni of Western Sydney, and it is quite amazing to me that these people are actually able to go to University.
Universities are meant to be meritocratic insitutions; not just anyone should be able to get a degree. One might even argue that students being able to attend universities such as UWS which have lower cut-offs may actually be contributing to the skills shortage, because these lower-quality candidates are doing degrees instead of learning trades at TAFE

And yes, you generally will be at a disadvantage going to UWS over another University unless you supplement with better grades/extra-curricular activites. UWS has poorer prestige - both at home and abroad - poorer facilities, poorer-quality students and a poorer academic reputation. the end

 

[hYperTrOphY]

All I want to remind diehard supporters of UWS such as LaraB and others is this; if you had achieved a higher UAI would you have gone to UWS? I think we all know that if those UWS students did get 90+, they too wouldn't have considered the place.

LaraB and I both got 98+, so to argue that we "wouldn't have considered the place" is far from accurate.

 

[melsc]

I think larab did get a 96 or a 98... some other uws law student got like 98.9 also :/
Considering the scholarships they can get, perhaps proximity etc.. I don't think it's a far fetched idea.

Proximity is a big plus for me. UTS and Sydney are pretty close but uws is less than 20 mins away and I can drive and park there, no catching trains and buses. I often wonder if it would be worth my while to transfer to say unsw, but then I think about how much academic standing I would get, the amount of travel and having to start a new uni all over again and giving up the combination I have chose and I always come up with the same question 'is prestige that important to me?'

I know UWS doesn't have the best rep, but I am prepared to work hard and hope that I can break through it. After all I don't think that there would be a problem with the course I am studying, and if some employer is too ignorant to consider that the quality of education is most likely just as good and overlook determination and hard work for prestige then so be it. I am studying what I want and thats all that matters to me right now.

politik you don't even go to uni and I am sure you havent gone for a graduate position so stop making assumptions. I do wonder if you even went to UWS open day? I went to all the open days except MAQ (coz I was working) with an open mind. Of course the majority of UWS cutoffs are lower, after all they made the largest amount of offers and have many campuses, thus have more spaces to fill. I just get annoyed when people like you put UWS down, especially when you don't acknowledge any good aspects and constantly make bad assumptions.

Let the 06 and future kiddies make their own decisions but I hope they have the sense to sort out the facts from the exagerations and bickering.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Proximity is a big plus for me. UTS and Sydney are pretty close but uws is less than 20 mins away and I can drive and park there

True this is a big plus.
UWS is a much more convenient uni for me also.

 

[melsc]

I mean having to go to two campuses is a pain, but they are both 20 mins away and I can drive and park easily and cheaply at both, thus really its still easier than the bus and train to nsw

 

[AsyLum]

Very true, a lot of courses fell this year, therefore by his reckoning, anyone under what, say 60? shouldn't be at uni. Then we're back to the whole "the hsc is a measure of your worth" bullshit.

I didn't put the effort into my hsc, heck, i didn't care by the end of it. I lacked any motivation, but now am full of it, its not something you can use as an excuse for exclusion.

Additionally, yes UWS may have somewhat 'poorer' facilities than the other unis, but they're dealing with more students, more campuses, and a wider range of degrees. Given proper direction, marketing and time, it could facilitate a much greater potential than the expensive land upon which most city unis are in.