Do we NEED a woman on the high court? (1 Viewer)

[Not-That-Bright]

I'm slightly conflicted on this issue....

PRO
- I believe that having a woman is a great symbolic gesture.
- I do believe that there are inate differences between men and women.
- Men aren't really the best advocates for women.

CON
- I think while balance is important, It's rather hard to determine where balance ends... should we have an aboriginal high court justice? should we have a homosexual? should we have them broken up evenly amungst the states?
- Whoever is best qualified should get the position and I don't particulary like the idea of a woman getting in front of a man simply due to her sex.

 

[Iron]

What a tedious, stale argument.
Bring on the push-button justice system, that's what I say.

 

[braindrainedAsh]

I think it would be good, but the best applicants should be chosen for the job, they shouldn't be chosen just for tokenism. That being said I am sure there would be some females out there that can take the old boys club on and I am sure that in time we will see a woman rise to the position without any need for it to be a contrived act of tokenism.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Retiring High Court judge wants female successor

A High Court judge has issued a challenge to the Howard Government to appoint a woman as his replacement when he retires.

Justice Michael McHugh has lamented the lack of women judges as a sign of systemic discrimination.

Justice McHugh says unless the gender imbalance in judicial appointments is addressed, public confidence in the justice system will erode.

Justice McHugh is due to retire next year and has outlined the significant pool of female talent eligible to succeed him, given the opportunity.

He says when compared to similar courts in countries, including the United States, England and Canada, the High Court stands alone in having no female members.

He has questioned why Australia's final appeal court lacks a female justice while Prime Minister John Howard trumpets the unprecedented presence of women in Cabinet and when many high-ranking public servants are women.

Justice McHugh questions whether the system is based solely on merit, given women make up half of the law graduates and are often academically superior.

He says the obvious answer is that the court is the product of the same systemic and structural discrimination which denies female lawyers the same opportunities as their male counterparts.

McHugh seems to want a female replacement...

 

[katie_tully]

I don't think we should concentrate on sex to make it "balanced", just go for the best person. If that person happens to be female, then yip.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I don't think we should concentrate on sex to make it "balanced", just go for the best person. If that person happens to be female, then yip.

Well... Although McHugh points out that there are ALOT of great female law graduates, I think there's a significant ammount less of female barristers/practicing lawyers.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

McHugh seems to want a female replacement...

McHugh loves women... he's made some rather quirky comments in the past about it lol

Well... Although McHugh points out that there are ALOT of great female law graduates, I think there's a significant ammount less of female barristers/practicing lawyers.

Get Chief Justice Gleeson's daughter

There are a number of senior female judges though. High Court positions should ideally come from the best judges, not just from the top barristers. Judges to the Supreme Courts ought to come from top barristers.

 

[neo o]

I am sure that in time we will see a woman rise to the position without any need for it to be a contrived act of tokenism.

RE: Justice Mary Gaudron
Apparently you were merely appointed to the HC as an act of tokenism. We still await a real female representative on the HC.

Well... Although McHugh points out that there are ALOT of great female law graduates, I think there's a significant ammount less of female barristers/practicing lawyers.

Growth in the amount of female professionals has increased by 6.8% since 2000 and the amount of men has declined by 0.4% (1.4% full time). Also, there are more female graduates now then men with around 60% of graduates or more from law school being female.

So no, in 10 or so years when women reach the upper echelons of the profession, the legal profession will be dominated entirely by women.

http://jobsearch.gov.au/joboutlook/default.aspx?pageId=KeyInfo3&AscoCode=2521#gender

McHugh loves women... he's made some rather quirky comments in the past about it lol

Don't we all?

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Theres a big assumption which seems to be overlooked here. You are assuming that a women judge will bring women values or somehow do it differently (at least enough to matter). In my opinion, i bet that doesn't happen, a women judge will be 'masculinised' (dunno if thats a real word, but i'm sure you get the gist), and most likely assume the role of any other male judge, she would have to have a very strong character to go against the grain.

A number of the current High Court judges have commented that Justice Mary Gaudron (as she then was) brought a feminine perspective to the bench, a slightly different way of thinking about things.

But it's also important to have a diverse judicial body within those skilled enough for the position. If you think about it, they are all old, Anglo-Saxon white males, most of which (if not all) are religious. (Although Kirby does stand out somewhat I suppose.) Wouldn't you agree that the perspectives of the bench would be broadened with the more women? Women represent roughly half of the population. Yet we have all men sitting as the most powerful men in the country making the some of most important decisions for our society.

 

[Atticus.]

Merit not sex. If there is a women out there that has the merit then she should get the job.

i 100% agree. a token female as a gesture on the panel is wrong.
merit > sex

 

[Phanatical]

Affirmative action and tokenism is stupid. The same argument could be used to ask why we've never had a High Court judge of Asian descent.

 

[Atticus.]

Affirmative action and tokenism is stupid. The same argument could be used to ask why we've never had a High Court judge of Asian descent.

and an african american president...
tokenism shits me to tears

 

[braindrainedAsh]

Neo I was simply referring to the current situation. If there is a woman who is deserving of the position then she should get it. You can't go "oh we are going to pick a woman this time"... that's all I meant.

I think that professions like law still have a very patriarchal structure though which makes it harder for women.... it is still very much the old boys club mentality amongst those at the top for what I have read and heard, and I think that should be dismantled if possible. But tokenism isn't the way to do it. Journalism can be quite similar as well, because while the majority of journalism graduates are female, the majority of top journalists are male. Often it is because these types of careers are not very compatible with maternity leave and raising children while working etc.

 

[Calculon]

Affirmative action is stupid.

The end.

 

[santaslayer]

Hmmmm....female perspective in the courts...

...hmmmmm..


humungous sentences for sexual assault...
more consideration for women who suffer stuff like 'battered women's syndrome', 'abuse', 'sexual provocation'...
more and more females getting custody...(even though females usually win cases like these)....

...hmmm...

 

[katie_tully]

Hmmmm....female perspective in the courts...

...hmmmmm..


humungous sentences for sexual assault...
more consideration for women who suffer stuff like 'battered women's syndrome', 'abuse', 'sexual provocation'...
more and more females getting custody...(even though females usually win cases like these)....

...hmmm...

In some sense that's an assult on their integrity. One would hope they would not let their gender get infront of their decision.

 

[Iron]

Hmmmm....female perspective in the courts...

humungous sentences for sexual assault...
more consideration for women who suffer stuff like 'battered women's syndrome', 'abuse', 'sexual provocation'...
more and more females getting custody...(even though females usually win cases like these)....

With respect, that is a pretty silly argument. You're considering that females are going to let their gender influence their decision making. But there are SEVEN males on the current bench! The exact same argument can be said about them - they are letting their male perspective influence everything. Didn't blink an eye about them though, did we

What's the story with Mary Gaudron? Our tutor seemed to hint that she lost her mind or some such

I think she had some health problems (and no not of the mental nature lol).

 

[neo o]

What's the story with Mary Gaudron? Our tutor seemed to hint that she lost her mind or some such

<3 Greinke.

 

[paper cup]

I'm slightly conflicted on this issue....

PRO
- I believe that having a woman is a great symbolic gesture.
- I do believe that there are inate differences between men and women.
- Men aren't really the best advocates for women.

CON
- I think while balance is important, It's rather hard to determine where balance ends... should we have an aboriginal high court justice? should we have a homosexual? should we have them broken up evenly amungst the states?
- Whoever is best qualified should get the position and I don't particulary like the idea of a woman getting in front of a man simply due to her sex.

innate.

well, seeing as affirmative action hasn't really done much....
let's put it this way, the person who is qualified and is best suited for the occupation should get it, regardless of his or her sex. However, such a policy may discriminate against women. One scenario: man and woman go for job, equally qualified but man gets job because he has more experience. Woman was raising kids at the time, unable to work. Indirect discrimination.

 

[santaslayer]

In some sense that's an assult on their integrity. One would hope they would not let their gender get infront of their decision.

When making decisions, judges not only use the 'law' as a means decision making. Many mitigating and aggravating circumstances arise. One may see such factors in a completely different light according to their own gender. It isn't attacking their integrity as such. Judges are human too. If gender won't be an obstruction to their decision then why do we 'need' female judges at all?