Do you agree with this AWAs/IR Laws bulldust? (2 Viewers)

Do you agree with having basically all of your rates taken off you as an employee?


  • Total voters
    42
K

katie_tully

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Have you ever heard about the Cowra Abbotoirs and what the IR laws did to that place?
LOL WANT TO KNOW A STORY ABOUT THE COWRA ABBOTOIRS?

They were asked to go onto reduced wages TO KEEP THE ABBOTOIRS RUNNING BECAUSE IT WAS RUNNING AT A LOSS. SO THE OPTION WAS, TAKE A PAY CUT FOR A FEW MONTHS OR LOSE YOUR JOB COMPLETELY.

So what happened? They shut and a heap of twats lost their jobs because they werent willing to see the sense behind the decision.

Don't play 'omg didnt you hear of' here sweetheart.
 

Aerath

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The most heavily biased poll I've ever seen before. And for the record, I voted "yes".
 

Born2baplacebo

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Yeah but when you live in the bush like I do, there's not many jobs out here to get.

"John Howard says get another job. But out here in the bush, there's not many other jobs to get."

"the employer should hae every right to shaft your arse," yeah, BUT, to a certain degree. They do not have the right to blackmail you into keeping your own job. "Yeah, you can have your job, but you can't have your rates. It's either keep your rates and lose your job, or keep your job and lose your rates."

It's so screwed. And think of the pregnant women as well, wanting to have maternity leave. What's stopping the employer saying "okay we can handle this news two ways, you can have your baby or you can keep your job"?
 
K

katie_tully

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Yeah but when you live in the bush like I do, there's not many jobs out here to get.

"John Howard says get another job. But out here in the bush, there's not many other jobs to get."

"the employer should hae every right to shaft your arse," yeah, BUT, to a certain degree. They do not have the right to blackmail you into keeping your own job. "Yeah, you can have your job, but you can't have your rates. It's either keep your rates and lose your job, or keep your job and lose your rates."

It's so screwed. And think of the pregnant women as well, wanting to have maternity leave. What's stopping the employer saying "okay we can handle this news two ways, you can have your baby or you can keep your job"?
Plenty of jobs in the bush. Generally people are lazy and dont want to do the work that is available.

Why should a small business owner foot the bill because some chick is having a baby?

do not have the right to blackmail you into keeping your own job.
I think you'll find that's illegal and if you have proof you can take the employer to court. ;) You dont have to sign the agreement.
 
K

katie_tully

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Yeah but if you don't you get fired.
No.
You cannot be forced to sign an AWA. They cannot threaten you with being sacked, that's also illegal.

Stop reading the leftist bullshit propaganda and actually read the AWA legislature.
 
K

katie_tully

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Post it then. Post the legislation and prove me wrong.
I could draw a picture of a monkey flinging shit at its reflection in the mirror and I'd still prove you wrong.
 

withoutaface

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katie_tully said:
I could draw a picture of a monkey flinging shit at its reflection in the mirror and I'd still prove you wrong.
Is the fecal matter unionised?
 

Born2baplacebo

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It gives the employer unfair advantage over the employee. The unions could do a better job then these work place reforms.
 

withoutaface

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Born2baplacebo said:
It gives the employer unfair advantage over the employee. The unions could do a better job then these work place reforms.
Unfair advantage how? Unions can still exist, they just can't be forced onto employers. If enough labour was unionised (read: if enough people thought they could get a better deal through unions), then collective agreement type AWAs would be the standard.
 
K

katie_tully

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It gives the employer unfair advantage over the employee. The unions could do a better job then these work place reforms
How? Exactly how? If you want to make this big, bold claims, explicitly explain to us how it gives them an unfair advantage.

Union collective agreements
2 An employer may make an agreement (a union collective
3 agreement) in writing with one or more organisations of
4 employees if, when the agreement is made, each organisation:
5 (a) has at least one member whose employment in a single
6 business (or part of a single business) of the employer will be
7 subject to the agreement; and
8 (b) is entitled to represent the industrial interests of the member
(2) When the agreement is made, each organisation must be entitled to
25 represent the industrial interests of one or more of the persons,
26 whose employment is likely to be subject to the agreement, in
27 relation to work that will be subject to the agreement.
 

Born2baplacebo

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http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/08/23/2013408.htm

The Howard Government's radical industrial relations reforms unfairly curtail our rights at work, cut the amount of time Australians can spend with family, and erode job security.

The so-called ‘fairness test’ is full of loopholes:

  • There are around 2.5 million workers who will not benefit from the ‘test’
    because they are on already-registered AWAs & Agreements or earn
    more than $75,000 a year.
• Workers with family responsibilities are particularly at risk. Employees
whose availability to work is restricted due to family responsibilities or
other personal circumstances have no guaranteed entitlement to
penalty rates or shift pay under the ‘fairness test’.
• Non-monetary compensation can be offered to workers in exchange for
losing their penalty rates or overtime pay under these changes. And in
some cases, workers in country areas or young workers may also not recieve proper financial compensation.

Howards new IR laws are a step backwards towards fairness.

1. No role for independent umpire (AIRC)
The new ‘fairness test’ provides no role for the independent umpire
to scrutinise AWAs. Under the new system, individual workers who
are dissatisfied with the compensation they receive for losing their
penalty rates, overtime and other award conditions have nowhere to
go.
2. Fewer workers are protected
Around 2.5 million workers are not covered by the new ‘fairness test’
and receive no protection.
3. A limited set of award conditions are
taken into account
The new ‘fairness test’ does not take into account all award
conditions when determining if the AWA individual contract is ‘fair’.
Redundancy pay, paid maternity leave, and a say on rosters for
workers were previously taken into account in the ‘no disadvantage
test’ but are now not protected and can be abolished with no
compensation to workers.
4. AWAs are not checked before they apply
to workers’ wages and conditions
Under the new system, AWAs are checked only after they start to
apply. This means that workers lose their award conditions first, and
then the ‘fairness test’ is applied later.
With the ‘no disadvantage test’, workers agreements were tested first
to ensure workers were not disadvantaged. Only then, did the agreement start.

DO NOT RESTORE workers’ rights to protection from unfair dismissal;
DO NOT GUARANTEE that negotiations over work conditions will result in workers
being financially better off than they would have been under their award;
DO NOT ENSURE workers have a right to collectively bargain where that is what the majority in a workplace want;
and
DO NOT ADDRESS the fundamental power imbalance between large corporations and an individual workers when negotiating AWA individual contracts.
 
K

katie_tully

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lol.
Nobody cares about the bullshit spewed by the ABC.

1. No role for independent umpire (AIRC)
The new ‘fairness test’ provides no role for the independent umpire
to scrutinise AWAs. Under the new system, individual workers who
are dissatisfied with the compensation they receive for losing their
penalty rates, overtime and other award conditions have nowhere to
go.
I explicitly remember reading in the reform that an employee has the right to have an outsider appointed person review the the AWA.

4. AWAs are not checked before they apply
to workers’ wages and conditions
Under the new system, AWAs are checked only after they start to
apply. This means that workers lose their award conditions first, and
then the ‘fairness test’ is applied later.
Read the section on 'Lodgement of the AWA'

That has to be the biggest load of crap you've posted yet. None of it was substantiated with fact. None of it had an example extract from the AWA bill to back it up. FICTION.
 

Born2baplacebo

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Then explain the loopholes.


The Howard Government’s new IR laws will affect everyone's right to get help when they need it most. The Government has made it harder for unions to protect and represent employees by:

Making it harder for employees to ask unions to make workplace visits.
Making it harder for unions to legally take industrial action when negotiations break down.
Increasing penalties for unions and workers.
 
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K

katie_tully

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Then explain the loopholes.
What loopholes? There are no loopholes. There are dumb employees and unscrupulous employers who would take advantage of their employees, yes. But are you trying to tell me this didn't happen at all before the AWA's? I don't think so.

All you keep doing is posting these stupid links from bullshit artists like the ABC. Why do you think the AWA's are ripping off employees?
 

Born2baplacebo

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Because it's an easy way of the employers firing the employees.

Oh here's another fact:

Around 1.6 million Australian working people rely only on awards to protect all their pay and conditions. Millions of other workers have relied on awards to underpin their basic rights and conditions. The Howard Government has abolished the award safety net.

Prior to the passage of the Howard Government's IR laws, almost all working Australians enjoyed the protection of a strong award system.
 
K

katie_tully

Guest
Sigh.

The principal object of this Act is to provide a framework for
9 cooperative workplace relations which promotes the economic
10 prosperity and welfare of the people of Australia by:

(c) providing an economically sustainable safety net of
minimum wages and conditions for those whose employment
is regulated by this Act;

(g) ensuring that awards provide minimum safety net
entitlements for award-reliant employees which are
consistent with Australian Fair Pay Commission decisions
115 Objects of Part
The objects of this Part are:
(a) to ensure that minimum safety net entitlements are protected
through a system of enforceable awards maintained by the
Commission;
(3) An award may include terms about the matters referred to in
2 subsection (1) only to the extent that the terms provide minimum
3 safety net entitlements.
(1) An employer, employee or organisation bound by an award may
4 apply to the Commission for an order varying the award on the
5 ground that that the variation is essential to the maintenance of
6 minimum safety net entitlements.
 

withoutaface

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Born2baplacebo said:
Because it's an easy way of the employers firing the employees.

Oh here's another fact:

Around 1.6 million Australian working people rely only on awards to protect all their pay and conditions. Millions of other workers have relied on awards to underpin their basic rights and conditions. The Howard Government has abolished the award safety net.

Prior to the passage of the Howard Government's IR laws, almost all working Australians enjoyed the protection of a strong award system.
What the fuck are you on about? Where's your evidence that these people didn't only choose the Awards because AWAs weren't available at the time?
 

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