Does God exist? (16 Viewers)

[HotShot]

If ANYONE can levitate, under controlled conditions (It can be arranged to be done through the Australian Skeptics, I'm sure) you are eligible to win $1 million US from the James Randi Educational Foundation.

http://www.randi.org/research/index.html

As for all the stories of levitation... there are also alot of stories of wizards, elves and goblins too.

It is also possible to trick people into thinking you're levitating using a technique such as;

http://www.magiclearn.50megs.com/photo2.html

There is also one i've seen where you put a mirror diagonally inside a milk crate, a hole on one side of the mirror and cardboard on the other. Using basically the same technique (but masking it a bit better) you can make it appear although you are levitating.

the one with the yogi had no special effects it was done in from spectators and there were strings, ropes mirrors etc found... levitation is rare and not everyone can do it but it is possible..

 

[Not-That-Bright]

the one with the yogi had no special effects it was done in from spectators and there were strings, ropes mirrors etc found... levitation is rare and not everyone can do it but it is possible..

When you go watch a show performed by a skilled magician, do you know instantly it's a trick? Of course not. Tricks are supposed to TRICK people, if it wasn't able to everyone would just point at it and say 'that's a trick'.

Read:

Yogi Pullavar’s attendants erected a small tent in an open area. Yogi Pullavar began by ritualistically pouring water in a circle around the tent. Shoes were prohibited within the area marked by the circle. Yogi Pullavar then entered the tent where he remained hidden from view for a few minutes. The attendants then removed the tent. Yogi Pullavar was seen suspended horizontally several feet above the ground. He was in a trance, lightly resting his hand on top of a cloth covered stick. He did not exert pressure on the stick. He apparently used the stick as a point of reference rather than for support. Many photographs were taken from various angles of this exhibition. Witnesses were permitted to thoroughly examine the levitation. They thoroughly searched for strings, props and any means of possible support above, below and around the levitating Pullavar. Nothing was found.

After four minutes the attendants erected the tent around Yogi Pullavar to shield him as he made his descent. P.Y. Plunkett positioned himself so that the sunlight enabled him to discern Pullavar through the thin cloth tent walls. Plunkett said that he noticed Yogi Pullavar gently swaying for a short time while still in mid-air. Then, he slowly sank in a horizontal position to the ground. The process took around five minutes to complete.

When the tent was again removed, Yogi Pullavar was laying on the ground, still in a deep trance. Volunteers were asked to try to bend Pullavar’s limbs. His arms and legs could not be bent from their position. Attendants had to splash water on Yogi Pullavar and rub him down for five minutes before he came out of his trance and was again able to use his limbs.

Sounds EXACTLY like a magic trick to me.

HotShot, please don't tell me you are that gullible.

 

[SkyScout]

You know what? All of you should endorse into journalism... all of you have perfect abilities to only pick out and quote from the others the bits that you want to tok about or perhaps are those the only sections that you're able to comprehend and understand with that pea size brain of yours... hmm something to ponder on...

 

[Generator]

You really are a fucking dim-wit,

You're one straw away from hurting the camel, Sam.

Nolanistic, it would be great if you could rise above Sam's petty personal attacks and just counter his arguments. Now, I do realise that this is exactly what you have been doing, but it looks as though your patience is starting to fray, so I thought that it would be best to just drop you this little reminder.

 

[Generator]

You know what? All of you should endorse into journalism... all of you have perfect abilities to only pick out and quote from the others the bits that you want to tok about or perhaps are those the only sections that you're able to comprehend and understand with that pea size brain of yours... hmm something to ponder on...

Another pathetic personal attack. Fantastic.

I hate having to state the obvious, but personal attacks are not allowed. From this point on, I will not waste my time be asking those of you ignoring this simple rule to mind your language, rather I will just act in a manner commensurate with the offence.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

You know what? All of you should endorse into journalism... all of you have perfect abilities to only pick out and quote from the others the bits that you want to tok about or perhaps are those the only sections that you're able to comprehend and understand with that pea size brain of yours...

Do you think I'm selective in my arguments? That I ignored something because I couldn't deal with it/understand it? Perhaps you are not talking about me, but if you are, I am not perfect, I try to address everything but perhaps I missed something - If I did, could you please point out where I did? I'm very sorry, but my pea sized brain sometimes can't differentiate between all different types of bullshit propagated by various people on this forum.

 

[HotShot]

You know what? All of you should endorse into journalism... all of you have perfect abilities to only pick out and quote from the others the bits that you want to tok about or perhaps are those the only sections that you're able to comprehend and understand with that pea size brain of yours... hmm something to ponder on...

its oks man.. chil out its only a forum..

 

[cheesman]

wats with all the physics anyway, u cant prove Gods existence with physics
if he made the universe, he would be outside it, therefore not vulnerable to the laws within it, so what makes anyone think u can prove God with physics?

just for the record, i didnt read all the posts prior to mine, so i may have got the wrong impression

 

[P_Dilemma]

As demonstrated by these latest posts, the world is less about God and more about people.

-P_D

 

[cheesman]

yes but God didnt build a house/universe around him for he is outside of it and not subject to the laws within it, since not being subject to the laws within this house/universe is part of wat makes him God
besides, normally with houses, you can just walk out

 

[HotShot]

Hahahahahahahahahahhaahahhahahah. Thank you so much. That's awesome. I just thought of God creating the universe, seeing people like sam [with his apparent omniscience, which allows him to see teh fuchar] and going "Fuck this for a game of soldiers, I'm going to the pub."

And theoretically there's no beer too large for God to drink, therefore, he must be drinking the world's LARGEST beer.

or SMALLEST BEER...

 

[sam04u]

LMFAO, I called the number he posted here is what it said "The BLA BLA you have reached is unavailable, to proceed to notify the caller that you called hang up, regular charges apply to proceed."

WTF?


Edit: or jesus juice...

 

[rehan]

Quran: A Teacher to Modern Scientists

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Besides providing guidelines in personal, social, moral and spiritual spheres of humanity, the Quran touches upon diverse scientific topics like astronomy, geology, embryology, genetics, biology, archeology etc. Some of these are mentioned below to prove the Quran's Divine origin. [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]The Big Bang ! [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Currently, the Big Bang model of the origin of the universe is the cosmological paradigm most widely accepted by astronomers. It holds that about 15 billion years ago the universe began with the explosive expansion of a single, extremely dense matter, the primordial mass. Only after the development of radio telescopes in 1937 that, the necessary observational precision was achieved in order for astronomers to arrive at the above conclusion. What does the Quran say about our universe's origin? [/FONT]
Verse from Quran:
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"Do not the unbelievers see that the Heavens and the earth were joined together, then We split them apart." (21:30) [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Expanding Universe [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]In 1925, Edwin Hubble (after whom the Hubble Space telescope is named) provided the observational evidence for the expansion of the universe. Stephen Hawking (author of 'A Brief History of Time') states: "The universe is not static, as had previously been thought, it is expanding". So what did God reveal in the Quran, 1400 years ago? [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"And the firmament, We constructed with power and skill and verily We are expanding it" (51:47) ("We" is the Arabic plural of respect, not the Christian plural of 'trinity") [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]The Existence of Sun's Orbit [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Ancient people use to believe that the Sun revolves around the earth. Later, Nicholas Copernicus in 1512, laid his Heliocentric Theory of Planetary motion, which placed the sun motionless in the center of the solar system with all the planets revolving around it. Modern science tells us now that the sun too is not still, but is in motion. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]The sun traveling at roughly 150 miles per second takes about 200 million years to complete one revolution around the center of our Milky Way Galaxy and 25 days to make one complete rotation around its own axis. See how beautifully and accurately God revealed this phenomenon in the Quran: [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"It is He who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its orbit with its own motion." (21:33) [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Conquest of Space by Human [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Human exploration and the conquest of space began with the launching of the Russian Satellite, Sputnik I on Oct. 4, 1957. Then followed the launching of humans into space, which eventually led to a manned space flight to the Moon on July 20th, 1967. Thus the dream of humanity since the dawn of civilization to go beyond the earth to the heavens was realized. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]The Quran, 1400 years ago, clearly predicted human's advancement and the possibility of space flight. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"O assembly of Jinns and humans, if you can penetrate the regions of the heavens and the earth, then penetrate them! You will not penetrate them save with a power (of God)." (55:33) [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]The Protective Atmosphere [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Earth is constantly bombarded by meteoroids that disintegrate upon the atmosphere and by lethal rays emitted by the sun. This UV radiation is absorbed by the Ozone layer forming the outer fringe of our atmosphere. Thus our atmosphere along with its Ozone layer is a protective covering for us. Life possibly could not have existed without it. How meticulously, does our Lord sustain and protect us against this atmospheric destruction. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"And We have made the atmosphere a protective roof, yet do they turn away from the Signs which these things point to." (21:32) [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Embryology [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]The Dutch naturalist Anthony van Leeuwenhoek (1632-1723) produced lenses powerful enough to prove that many tiny creatures are not spontaneously generated but are produced from eggs. The science of Embryology as we know it today did not discover many of the detailed aspects of human embryonic development until the 1970s, using powerful microscopes, ultra sound and fiber optics technology. See how the Quran described the stages of embryonic development. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"God fashioned man from a small quantity (of sperm)" (16:4) Fertilization takes place with only one sperm among several tens of million produced by man. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"Then We placed him as a drop in a place of rest" (23:13) Implantation of the blastocyst in the uterus. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"Then We made the drop into a leech like structure..." (23:14) This resemblance of the human embryo to a leech is an appropriate description of the human embryo from days 7-24, when it clings to the endometrium of the uterus. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"And He (God) gave you hearing and sight and feeling and understanding." (32:9) The internal ears appear before the eyes, and the brain (the sight of understanding) differentiates last. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Dr. E. Marshall Johnson [2] Professor of Anatomy, concluded after studying verses from Quran: "The Quran describes not only the development of external form but emphasizes also the internal stages - the stages inside the embryo of its creation and development, emphasizing major events recognized by contemporary science... so I see nothing in conflict with the concept that divine intervention was involved..." [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Gender Determination [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]The concept of "Gender Determination" as being described by geneticists, is one of the outstanding informations revealed to us in the Quran. This information is now a known fact, that sperms are the deciding factors in determining the type of gender (male or female) in the new embryo. This determination through the male sperm is due to the fact that sperms have an X and Y chromosomes, while the female ovum has only X Chromosomes (X, X). Through the Quran, The Almighty informs us that it is the male sperms that determine the type of gender for the new offspring: [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"Does man think that he will be left uncontrolled (without purpose)? Was he not a drop of sperm emitted (in humble form)? Then did (God) make and fashion (him) in due proportion. And of him He made two sexes, male and female..." (75:36-40) [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Existence of Pairs in All Creation [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Before the dawn of the modern era, humans conceived that only animal life was divided into two genders, male and female. Then the discovery was made that this phenomenon was present in plants and vegetation too. We have found this reality existing in every creation, animate as well as inanimate, though in different forms. In electricity, these two genders can be classified as positive and negative. North and south pole describe it in magnetism, electron and proton in atoms, matter and antimatter etc. Even bacteria could be positive or negative, while the truth is, this creation is made of pairs. At the time the Holy Quran was being revealed in the 7th century C.E., we knew of pairing in animals and plants only, but the Quran describes the phenomenon in the most lucid manner: [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"Hallowed is He, Who created pairs in all things, those that grow from the earth and of themselves, and what they know not." (36:36) [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]The Quranic statement: [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"...And what they know not" is as true today, as it was when Holy Quran was revealed. Though we have discovered that every created thing exists in pair, we have yet to discover many things that exist. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]We have expounded scientific marvels from the Holy Quran to convince sincere seekers of truth that it is the infallible Word of God. No mortal being can ever speak with such authority, finality, knowledge, perfection, and precision coupled with exotic beauties of expression, as does God in the Quran. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]By realizing these Truths about the Quran and the religion of Islam revealed by our Creator and Sustainer, many modern scientists are turning towards it. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Dr. Keith Moore [3], Professor of Embryology, after analyzing the verses of the Quran for three years comments: "It has been a pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Quran about Human Development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God or Allah because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later" [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Dr. Maurice Bucaille [4], French Physician, after studying Quran and comparing it with modern science, addressed the French Academy of Medicine in 1976 proclaimed: "Our knowledge of these disciplines is such, that it is impossible to explain how a text produced at the time of the Quran could have contained ideas that have only been discovered in modern times". [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Dr. Joe Leigh Simpson [5], Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology, proclaims: "...These Hadiths (sayings of Muhammad) could not have been obtained on the basis of the scientific knowledge that was available at the time of the writer (7th century)...It follows that not only is there no conflict between genetics and religion (Islam) but in fact religion (Islam) may guide science by adding revelation to some of the traditional scientific approaches... There exist statements in the Quran shown centuries later to be valid which support knowledge in the Quran having been derived from God". [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Dr. Tejatet Tejasen [6], Professor of Anatomy, attending the Eighth Saudi Medical Conference, stood up and likewise announced: "From my studies and what I have learnt at this conference, I believe that everything that has been recorded in the Quran 1400 years ago must be true. That can be proved the scientific way". [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]These men of knowledge, in their unbiased studies of the Quran, all proclaimed its truthfulness as a Revelation of Almighty God. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"Soon we will show them Our Signs in the (furthest) regions (of the earth) and in their own soul, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth..." (41:53) [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Guidance to humanity proclaimed in the Quran is complete and applicable to all societies and all times. Whether we are living in the Stone Age or the Space Age, riding in horse pulled carriages or flying in Space Shuttles, we haven't changed a bit. We still possess physical and emotional desires, we live in societies, interact with one another, establish social, political and economic systems; thus the relevant need for guidance by our Creator in all these spheres of our life. Islam is the only religion which is totally compatible with scientific facts and provides complete, explicit and clear guidance in all spheres of life. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]The Quran was revealed in Arabic, but translation of its meaning are available in English and other languages for non-Arabs. Likewise Islam is not restricted to people of the east or Arabs, it is a universal religion revealed for all of mankind. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]We invite all sincere humans to study Islam with an open mind. Don't blindly follow the whims and paganistic influences of the environment around us. God bestowed upon us this superb mind to seek and live the truth; for we all will be accountable on the Day of Judgment for our beliefs and deeds. Don't delay your salvation. Welcome to Islam! [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]References: [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]1) Dr. T.V.N. Persaud, Professor and Head of the Department of Anatomy, University of Manitoba, Canada, received in 1991 the most distinguished award presented in the field of Anatomy in Canada, the J.C.B. Grand Award. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]2) Dr. E. Marshall Johnson, Professor and Chairman of the Department of Anatomy and Developmental Biology, and the Director of the Daniel Baugh Institute, Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, USA [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]3) Dr. Keith Moore, Professor of Embryology, Department of Anatomy, Univ. of Toronto, Canada, recipient of numerous awards and honors, including in 1984, the J.C.B. Grand Award, which is the highest honor granted by the Canadian Association of Anatomists. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]4) Dr. Maurice Bucaille, French Physician, Author of 'The Bible, the Quran and Science, Seghers, Paris, 1987. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]5) Dr. Joe Leigh Simpson, Professor and Chairman of the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas, and the President of the American Fertility Society. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]6) Dr. Tejatet Tejasen, Professor and Head of Department of Anatomy, Faculty of Medicine, University of Chiang, Thailand[/FONT]

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Embryology in the form that appears in the koran was already known in greece by hippocrates, I believe.

The rest can be put down to 'um k'.

How's bout this:

You provide me an example of someone using the koran to come to a hypothesis about some aspect of the world, that then ends up being true through research. You see, 'predictions' that occur AFTER THE FACT (i.e. with the big bang one, muslims did not come up with the big bang hypothesis from the koran, what they did was after the hypothesis came into existance they matched it up with those verses) aren't all that convincing.

Also, 1,000,000 other holy books and 1,000,000 other predictive texts make the same sort of 'after the fact' predictions. Why believe yours other the others?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Yea the 'pairs in all creation' thing could mean anything. Like one example, you could use quantum physics and I believe there's a theory that moving one atom here can influence another atom somewhere else in the universe (or something along those lines). That could be the pairs in all creation thing...

Seriously tho, it's all after the fact. The only one that I'd say isn't after the fact is embryology, in which case we know that hippocrates had written it before muhammed. How muhammed got access to such knowledge? Who knows - but it's surely a bit of a stretch to claim even tho hippocrates/the greeks had already known about it, that muhammed didn't find out about it by some trade route or whatever - but from God

It also ignores the obvious scientific inaccuracies in the koran, for example:

"Look further at the bones, how We bring them together and clothe them with flesh ..." (Al-Baqara 2:259)

The Koran gives the impression that first the skeleton is formed, and then it is clothed with mustle. Dr. Bucaille knows perfectly well that this is not true. The muscles and the cartilage precursors of the bones start forming from the somite at the same time. At the end of the eighth week there are only a few centers of ossification started but the fetus is already capable of some muscular movement.

Christians, Muslims etc... please stop trying to use your holy book to prove the existance of God.

 

[crazyhomo]

Ancient people use to believe that the Sun revolves around the earth. Later, Nicholas Copernicus in 1512, laid his Heliocentric Theory of Planetary motion, which placed the sun motionless in the center of the solar system with all the planets revolving around it. Modern science tells us now that the sun too is not still, but is in motion. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]The sun traveling at roughly 150 miles per second takes about 200 million years to complete one revolution around the center of our Milky Way Galaxy and 25 days to make one complete rotation around its own axis. See how beautifully and accurately God revealed this phenomenon in the Quran: [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"It is He who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its orbit with its own motion." (21:33)

yeah, god was so totally more accurate than those scientists who actually specified where, how fast and how long. god pwned them. i can't believe the 'swim along' theory isn't being taught in science classrooms, considering its obvious accuracy

p.s. where is the pair in organisms using asexual reproduction? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prokaryote

 

[AntiHyper]

Snails have a penis & a vagina so a whole group of them can form a circle to penetrate and be penetrated by one another.

 

[sam04u]

We've got a few snails in these forums right here... you know they're a bit slow....


I agree with NTB though, It's all 'open to interpretation', unless it was 100% clear and proven to be true. I think alot of the 'laws' in Islam, will prove meaningful in the years to come, and that will be the best 'answer' for man. I also think that in a few thousand years, we'll contact and alien form, (Perhaps with concentrated Light), Also, a friend of mine working on Quantum Entanglement, suggest that communication throughout the universe can be done 'INSTANTANEOUSLY', faster then the speed of light. Eventually, I believe, we'll contact another life form by using 'advanced', crystography, to 'focus' light into space, it's possible with the correct de-ionisation of each electron in a helium atom, to achieve a high enough energy form, that'll be strong enough to exceed c2, which would probably be an Inter-Universal Sign, (If there is aliens, which I showed that quran suggests).

The travelling, I predict will be done by Quantum Teleportation, in our multi dimensional universe. It's even possible, that with quantum entanglement in QEM, to select any location in the universe, and change matter.

(If we do meet aliens, woudl that mean that the Quran 'proved' something before the fact? or do you suggest that 'knowing of the existance' of aliens was something after the fact? It's all difficult, but both the big-bang theory and the thought that aliens exist are not fully proven, and the quran makes suggestion to them centuries ahead of time. )

It's confusing, I say, you choose a religion you believe to be morally true. (I was reading about parisitic diseases, and there were a few 'distinct' only in pigs.)


Edit:
Islam outlaws, the eating of 'naturally' predatorial animals, even though you may argue (foot and mouth disease), these are domesticated animals tricked into eating meat. The idea is eating animals which would eat you or another life form, or is a predator is againt the islamic religion (I think).

 

[sam04u]

http://www.sfusd.k12.ca.us/schwww/sch618/Food_and_Farming/Islam_Food_and_Farming.html
http://www.sfusd.k12.ca.us/schwww/sch618/Food_and_Farming/Arab_Food.html

http://www.sfusd.k12.ca.us/schwww/sch618/Islam_New_Main.html

-Informative sites, (I found them interesting, learnt stuff I never knew)

 

[cheesman]

just for the record this thread is about the existence of a God, not what religion one should choose
so maybe try not to stray off topic cause it'll just cause further dispute