Does God exist? (9 Viewers)

[katie_tully]

Lol, it's funny how people like you think they know what life is and what comes next. You see you're only non-religious because of the first stage of discovery. The first stage of discovery is discovering our origins, and you don't know this yet, but the best theory we have on the beginning of the universe is wrong.
When you can see that it was inevitable for our universe to be created then you'll have the real questions to deal with.

You wouldn't be an atheist if there was no big bang theory (which is extremely weak). I'm not saying any religion is automatically correct, but there is a God and what it does, and why it does it is beyond me. I guess irrational guesses is something that a heretic might do to protect their beliefs. I have to admit though, to me miracles isn't what makes me believe in God, it's the logic and the understanding and feeling associated. If religion only makes you feel guilty then you've made some wrong choices.

I look at it this way. It's possible for somebody to roll 100 6's in a row on a dice. It's just probably never happened before, but it's very very possible.

Awesome. A psychic. How did you ever guess that the big bang theory is the reason I stopped being a Catholic?
That is quite possibly the most retarded thing I've read in this debate yet. I stopped being religious well before I understood the 'theory' of the Big Bang. In actual fact the 'big bang' had no bearing on my decision to relieve myself of the burden that is the stupidity of religion. Nor does it today.

You talk about logic, yet you then go on to say you don't understand and that how there is a God is beyond you. That appears to me to be blind faith, not logic.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

when did i say that God 'controls' all things?

It's a typically held view of God.

that is not true...people have free will and control their own actions

So if I wanted to do something God COULD NOT stop me? If he could, but just chooses not to, then my point remains imo.

[/quote]

I've never met anyone that can levitate personally. Only words of mouth. But apparently, most of those who can are unable to control the time of their levitation. Let's put it this way. They don't have controls over that.

Does this sound convenient to you? I'm just wondering why you would accept that someone can do something as wild as levitate based off of witness reports?

Btw, it has been mentioned that these supernatural phenomena are not to be publicly displayed.

Again... very convenient. Why not display them? It would help bring more people to your belief.

Anyway, the reason for not publicly showing off these abilities is that it will disturb the normal human society.

Err... you falun gong already is disturbing normal human society, also, another convenient excuse. I can't get over that you've just accepted that people can levitate (defying physics, known science, etc etc etc) just because of word of mouth.

If humans have seen all these amazing display of abilities, everyone would be here to practice it. Even the evil ones that are not meant to practice Falun Gong will do so. So here you go. Only those who had the fate possibliy will be able to cross the maze.

Yes Falun Gong sure does have a history of turning away people that aren't 'good' enough... Do you really believe that's why these powers are not shown? I'm begining to worry that you've been sucked in big time by these guys, these excuses are so incredibly convenient to prevent testing of their claims that I just can't see how you don't smell a rat.

You're probably wondering how I knew all these practitioners. I know two who have been friends of mine since the beginning of highschool. They are just really nice people.

I'm sure they are really nice people, I've met fundamentalist christians who are really nice, until you find out about the hellfire.

Actually, my dad has been practicing it for 6 years now. Some of those visions I've heard come from him.

Which probably makes it all the more hard for you to doubt, it's difficult to challenge people you look up to/close family members. For yourself though, try to put yourself in the shoes of an extemely critical person... to the point of being a cynic and just analyse what you believe.

Believe it or not, a lot of them are actually top VCE scorers.

I believe it, very smart people can believe silly things.

lol modern medicine....can modern medicine explain how (i mentioned this earlier) a friend of mine had a teacher with a brain tuma, she was close to death and science and modern medicine could not save her, the docs said she has a few weeks to live

well her father in italy prayed constantly and asked God to take him instead, because he loved his daughter so much and she was young and he was near the end anyway.

well, the teacher is alive and well today, teaching again. and her father passed away due to....yep you guessed it....a brain tuma.

whats your explanation for that miss?

and i have plenty more miracles to bring up so dont think im out of amunition

While I'll just suggest this was a made-up story, can you provide any specifics on the brain tumor? If she was 'near death' due to a brain tumor I imagine there's a high likelyhood that she suffers from some form of brain damage today.

anyway it looks like we are living in the end times, since what is written in the Book of Revelation has already begun....so sooner or later you will know that God does indeed exist

People have always believed they're in the end of times... what makes you think you're any closer?

 

[katie_tully]

The thing some of you need to understand is that under duress the brain can do amazing things.
It's like when you go on a ghost tour to an old sanitarium or something. You're so convinced that it's haunted that out of the corner of your eye you see a figure, or a head on a fence post. They're complete figments of ones imagination and can be proved to be nothing more.

Much like these 'miracles'. When you trick the brain into believing something for long enough, it's not out of the question for the brain to manifest images.

 

[katie_tully]

People have always believed they're in the end of times... what makes you think you're any closer?

Remember a while back, NTB, when the argument from the god squad was that the Bible is not to be taken literally, and that it's basically just full of metaphors.

I wonder why it is that they choose to believe some things are the direct word of god, and why other things are 'metaphors for something else'.
Is the word...convenience?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Lol, it's funny how people like you think they know what life is and what comes next. You see you're only non-religious because of the first stage of discovery. The first stage of discovery is discovering our origins, and you don't know this yet, but the best theory we have on the beginning of the universe is wrong.
When you can see that it was inevitable for our universe to be created then you'll have the real questions to deal with.

You wouldn't be an atheist if there was no big bang theory (which is extremely weak). I'm not saying any religion is automatically correct, but there is a God and what it does, and why it does it is beyond me. I guess irrational guesses is something that a heretic might do to protect their beliefs. I have to admit though, to me miracles isn't what makes me believe in God, it's the logic and the understanding and feeling associated. If religion only makes you feel guilty then you've made some wrong choices.

I look at it this way. It's possible for somebody to roll 100 6's in a row on a dice. It's just probably never happened before, but it's very very possible.

I've answered your pseudoscientific bs many times mate, you really don't have anything. It was 'inevitable' for our universe to be created? That's not necessarily wrong but how does that give us any problem. THE BEST you have possibly come up with, if we accept your logic/theory, is that the universe was created by something... You then somehow magically fill the gaps to make that something a benevolent allpowerful god. As far as I can see with confronted with more problems you just venture further and further into abscurity to justify your beliefs. You need to learn when to cut your losses.

 

[katie_tully]

I look at it this way. It's possible for somebody to roll 100 6's in a row on a dice. It's just probably never happened before, but it's very very possible.

Um... Honey, I'm doing a statistics subject this semester. Allow me to point out a few...er, 'errors' with that logic. If it's 'never happened before', the chance of the event can not be 'very, very possible'.

 

[robbie1]

People have always believed they're in the end of times... what makes you think you're any closer?

as i mentioned before, because what is written in the Book of Revelation has already begun....i dont care if some nut cases said the world was gonna and in the yr 2000....they werent Catholics, and if they were, they are very deluded Catholics.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

What is written in the book of revelation could be taken to mean anything, you just suit it to what you want, just as all other 'end of time' people do.

 

[robbie1]

No, no she won't. You as a catholic should know that. Getting into heaven in Catholic theology is not dependent on belief.

Not in any way, shape or form. The reward of heaven is given to those who perform good deeds. Those who do good, those who act as a force for God on this earth. Those who are good of heart. Being Anti-Religious does not stop you from eternal life in Catholic Doctrine.

This is why there was a schism, dude, this is why luther split from these cats, because Luther felt that only unwavering belief would bring salvation, whereas the Catholics said that belief may be an aspect of it, but doing good is so much more.

in the end it is up to God to decide who enters heaven.

most souls find themselves in purgatory first, some unfortunately go straight to hell and there is no escape from there.

virtually nobody goes straight to heaven, one recent exception was Pope John Paul II....the vast majority go to purgatory for purification before entering heaven.

so yes, it is possible to enter heaven one day without necessarily being a believer, but i would imagine that person would spend a very long time suffering in purgatory.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

virtually nobody goes straight to heaven, one recent exception was Pope John Paul II.

You know this do you?

 

[robbie1]

You know this do you?

Yep.

1. He lived like a saint - and this will be officially acknowledged by the Church soon enough.

2. The Mother of God appears at Medjugorje in Bosnia & Hercegovina monthly with messages given to a select few who in turn pass it on to all the faithful.
After his death, Mary appeared with him by her side

I have decided that this will be my last post in this thread. Some of the stuff I read here is deeply offensive and sometimes it even ruins my whole day. It makes me sick actually. But then I stop and think how much it actually hurts Jesus, and what I am feeling cannot be compared to what he is feeling, since it is him, the Son of Man, who you people are rejecting.

All I'll say now is that the rise of an atheistic civilisation was foretold by Mary in one of her many revelations. Its all falling into place. Laugh now, but in the end the faithful will be victorious, just as Jesus was.

Thanks to those who didnt resort to personal insults - ur inner child, not that bright, a few more but their names escape me right now.

This thread is really bad for your soul, so my advice to my fellow believers (there arent that many of you here) is to leave. Leave the athiests to their business. They arent going to live forever, they will face God one day....and may he have mercy on them all.

Peace.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Yep.

I am amazed at your divine connection.

1. He lived like a saint - and this will be officially acknowledged by the Church soon enough.

The church can never be wrong?

Some of the stuff I read here is deeply offensive and sometimes it even ruins my whole day. It makes me sick actually.

If it's offensive report it, but I'd hazzard a guess to say you're just someone that doesn't really want any sort of debate and it annoys you because people here disagree with you. I hope you'll come back and continue the debate because it is important for you to hash out your views and hear opposing views in an environment full of people that maybe you don't get along with, I think it makes us stronger people.

But then I stop and think how much it actually hurts Jesus, and what I am feeling cannot be compared to what he is feeling, since it is him, the Son of Man, who you people are rejecting.

I don't believe in God, so I can't reject him.

Its all falling into place. Laugh now, but in the end the faithful will be victorious, just as Jesus was.

I'm sorry but it almost seems like you're gloating at the idea that atheists are going to end up being hurt?

They arent going to live forever, they will face God one day....and may he have mercy on them all.

The catholic god? Or the generic christian god? or the muslim god? maybe zeus?

 

[lengy]

robbie1, I find some of the theistic posts offensive so it works both ways.

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

lol modern medicine....can modern medicine explain how (i mentioned this earlier) a friend of mine had a teacher with a brain tuma, she was close to death and science and modern medicine could not save her, the docs said she has a few weeks to live

well her father in italy prayed constantly and asked God to take him instead, because he loved his daughter so much and she was young and he was near the end anyway.

well, the teacher is alive and well today, teaching again. and her father passed away due to....yep you guessed it....a brain tuma.

whats your explanation for that miss?

and i have plenty more miracles to bring up so dont think im out of amunition

Nope. I can't explain why it happened. Not yet. but then again in the dark ages we couldn't explain why people died from being operated on with dirty knives...
I will suggest, though, that there is a gentic factor at work in this case, gentically both are weak against brain tumours...
coincidence could play a part in it too. My great grandmother had a heart condition, and my mother and uncle both have heart conditions...genes+ coincidence= answer
Why did God have to kill her father to save the girl?
Why did God let her get a brain tumour- if he wanted to kill her father he should have just done it directly, rather than forcing the guy to ask to be killed...sounds a little sick to me...

People have always believed they're in the end of times... what makes you think you're any closer?

as i mentioned before, because what is written in the Book of Revelation has already begun....i dont care if some nut cases said the world was gonna and in the yr 2000....they werent Catholics, and if they were, they are very deluded Catholics.

The apostles thought the end of the world was coming in their lifetime. In fact, Jesus said that some of them would not be dead by the time the world ends...and I haven't met any 2000 year old apostles wandering around so I must conclude Jesus is a liar.

A lot of people though WW2 signified the end of the world. A significant number thought it was WW1...that fact is you can use the book of revelations to 'prove' the end of the world is tomorrow...but that doesn't make it so.

 

[lengy]

People will always try to rationalise situations of overcoming unbelievable odds with something. Some will 'pray' to win lotto and never win and others will and when they win it's 'god' and when they don't it's not 'god' or whatever. They always try to reason this things. Stuff happens, good, bad. It has nothing to do with 'god'.

HI ErendilPeredil!

 

[KFunk]

ah my non-believing friend, you will see soon enough, you arent gonna live forever....where do you think you are going when you pass away?

Dude, that is such a non-answer (and a patronising one at that). Ambiguous, mystical statements make a poor substitute for reason. As to where I think I am going to go when I pass away? I don't know... but what I do know is that I have no good reason to believe that I will go to 'heaven'. Is there any chance you can come up with a reply to my original question that is better than the one quoted above?

 

[P_Dilemma]

robbie1, I find some of the theistic posts offensive so it works both ways.

Well, theist offensive + atheist offensive does not necessarily equal peace. It turns into this monster of a thread, for a start.

robbie1 isn't really offended, just pissed that not enough people think like he does, or at least act like "yes-men"...

-P_D

 

[lengy]

That's cause we have a will of our own and don't act like spineless brown-noses to some non-existent deity.

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

People will always try to rationalise situations of overcoming unbelievable odds with something. Some will 'pray' to win lotto and never win and others will and when they win it's 'god' and when they don't it's not 'god' or whatever. They always try to reason this things. Stuff happens, good, bad. It has nothing to do with 'god'.

HI ErendilPeredil!

Hi lengy

I think you really summarised the argument about miracles. Stuff happens. Not god.

I note that robbie1 has actually stopped replying...I hope he's not having a crisis of Faith.

If I meet God at the end of days, he's going to have some explaining to do...

 

[T-mac01]

Hi lengy

I think you really summarised the argument about miracles. Stuff happens. Not god.

I note that robbie1 has actually stopped replying...I hope he's not having a crisis of Faith.

If I meet God at the end of days, he's going to have some explaining to do...

I don't think this should be a business deal between you and whatever god you have in mind.

First of all, I don't like how people explain all things happened as God's mysterious way of actions. It's not mysterious. It's just that things happen for various reasons that is not relevant to us physically. Doesn't matter if its bad or good.
Just for yo, considering if God does exist which I believe so. We would certainly with no doubt recognise him as the true wisdom of all. So how can you figure out what the results are for if you think like humans with a naturally limited amount of wisdom.

Anyway, is it just me feeling that most of us have been convinced that God does exist? The topic seems to have upgraded a little bit.