Does God exist? (17 Viewers)

[lengy]

The reason there are Atheist groups in the States is because Atheists are discriminated against there and are apparently more distrusted than Muslims and that says something.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I agree, but given that all those rights you mentioned are protected by law, including the atheist's right to proclaim his/her belief in atheism, what would be the point of an organised atheist movement?

People have said the same about racism, sexism etc. Sure an atheists right to not believe is protected by law in Australia/the US etc but that's just the begining of the struggle. The second part is to change people's perceptions of atheists as a whole, get people to learn to accept that we're always going to be around not believing and respect us equally.

If people can't accept atheism that's their problem.

But it's our problem too, we live in a society where we must interact with each other and if a large group of people doesn't like a smaller/less powerful group of people problems will occur.

A movement would only serve as a focus point for religous fundamentalists to vent their anger at, and would probably only increase discrimination.

To disagree with this I'd ask you to consider the womens, gays and black civil rights movements of the 60's (though I don't want to dare draw comparisons to say the descrimination against atheist is anything like any of those cases were in the 60's). While it is true that these groups became a focus point for those who were against them, it's also true that they ultimately managed to sway public opinion through solidarity & strength.

 

[Valeu]

You're right I guess.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I'm not sure If I am right, to be honest I've taken different stances over even just the past 6 months. I worry about what some sort of 'atheist solidarity' movement might actually turn atheism into.

 

[S1M0]

Atheism is merely disbelief in God, there are many different ways people justify such disbelief or frame it, but essentially it comes down to the same thing.

People take their atheism pretty seriosuly though. I remember one kid who argued about the existance of God in SOR class, he eventually got booed and told to shut up by the class (he's not very well liked).

If its merely a disbelief in God, then why should they care? My take on it thats it more of a belief in the non-existance of God.

 

[ur_inner_child]

I personally feel it is more reactionary. I certainly got a bit louder as people started delving into my personal life and tell me that moving away from home was sinful (honour thy mother and father) and how I should be sorry, go back home etc. Then start pitying me and sending me "passages" and dragging me out for bible D&M's.

Most atheists I know are quite sincere about it all. They hold that so long as religious people do not ram it down their throats, it's respected. People can believe whatever they want to believe. If I am treated in this sincerity, it will unquestionably be returned.

I think in atheism in a public forum, whereas we have a topic at hand, it might sound a tad forceful. Everyday life is an entirely different matter.

 

[ali.falfa]

Athiest don't go around preaching Athiesm the way Theists go around 'saving' non-believers. Clearly the Theists need to shut up.

Some Do.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

If its merely a disbelief in God, then why should they care? My take on it thats it more of a belief in the non-existance of God.

Well in the case you're refering to it probably not only has to do with his belief in the non-existance of God but also his desire for people to appreciate his perspective on the matter.

 

[Josie]

I've never been verbally assaulted by a random atheist in the street telling me to not believe in God. The number of times I've been pulled aside by Theists- can't count.

 

[ur_inner_child]

Some Do.

massive minority, relatively.

 

[bshoc]

I've never been verbally assaulted by a random atheist in the street telling me to not believe in God. The number of times I've been pulled aside by Theists- can't count.

Thats because atheists don't have a singular ideology to promote.

Atheists tend to intrude via select causes, either ones derived from an atheistic perspective or promoting something atheistic in nature, usually under some thin veil of alternate causation in order to get at least some of the majority christians on-side. Which shows as most atheists are left or far-left politically, and seeking to undermine "christian" (or what they percieve to be as christian) values or causes.

I don't know whether thats just by chance, or because public scrutiny would reveal the basis of atheistic beliefs to be just as unproveable as any other religion, thus exposing atheists for the hypocritical psuedo-scientist wannabes that they are. The tearjerking reality most atheists tend to ignore is that their beliefs are a religion like any other, and thus are in for endless scrutiny to come.

That and the fact that every country that has ever gone down an atheist path went under rather quickly - quite an eloquent proof for religion if anything.

 

[bshoc]

I personally feel it is more reactionary. I certainly got a bit louder as people started delving into my personal life and tell me that moving away from home was sinful (honour thy mother and father) and how I should be sorry, go back home etc. Then start pitying me and sending me "passages" and dragging me out for bible D&M's.

Sounds like some sort of east Asian perversion of christian beliefs, either that of some extremist American baptist organisation, I'll bet the former.

Most atheists I know are quite sincere about it all. They hold that so long as religious people do not ram it down their throats,

Lol yeah right ...

 

[bshoc]

Bullshit. The single ideology is that there is no god.

Atheists have no agreement as to what fills the "god" void.

 

[Josie]

Nothing needs to fill it. There just is no God.

You're confusing atheists and agnostics.

 

[Josie]

Wait, wait, intrude? Like Exphate, I've never had my door knocked on at some obscene time of morning, my phone ring, been stopped on my way to uni, walking down the street, given a pamphlet.

I'm an agnostic, but as far as I know, they don't have secret meanings, they find no offence in christianity or any other religion as long as it's not shoved down their throats at 7am by some retard in a suit trying to convert the 900th person before he dies. Not that I'm dissing the people who do, that's their choice. My point is merely proving your "intrusion".

 

[bshoc]

Nothing needs to fill it. There just is no God.

No some form of alternate is always there, be it a scientific one or otherwise, in general true atheism is the rejection of all religion or what N-T-B likes to call "the supernatural," have that religion a "god" or not.

Nobody short of a PHD physist should be declaring their atheism superior to that of christians of anybody else.

Treat religion like a multiple choice test, there being one founding belief of religion in every question, and every question answered right as a point for religion. The average atheist could probably get a low score by randomly answering, however you have to be damn smart to get 0 in a multiple choice exam, and most atheists are not "damn smart"

 

[Josie]

Man you love the generalisations don't you. First atheists are lefties and now they're dumb shits. Awesome.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Thats because atheists don't have a singular ideology to promote.

The majority of atheists are humanists, they have as much of an 'ideology' as christians do despite their disagreements.

Atheists tend to intrude via select causes, either ones derived from an atheistic perspective or promoting something atheistic in nature, usually under some thin veil of alternate causation in order to get at least some of the majority christians on-side.

Atheists tend to promote a secular humanist society.

Which shows as most atheists are left or far-left politically, and seeking to undermine "christian" (or what they percieve to be as christian) values or causes.

It's true that alot of leftists are atheists... it's also true that alot of intellectuals, rich people, libertarians, and educators are also atheists. They're not trying to undermine christian values (the majority of which they'd also hold as secular humanist values). Alot of atheists have beliefs on issues which many conservative christians would disagree with them on (many christians would also agree with them), these are moral desisions which have nothing to do with undermining christianity and everything to do with following your own moral compass.

I don't know whether thats just by chance, or because public scrutiny would reveal the basis of atheistic beliefs to be just as unproveable as any other religion

Almost all atheists admit a philisophical agnosticism. The majority of sensible atheists will also admit that ultimately their beliefs are just as unprovable as any religion, however they will also probably put this statement into perspective by explaining that ultimately you are no more justified in rejecting any God / supernatural entity than I am in rejecting yours.

thus exposing atheists for the hypocritical psuedo-scientist wannabes that they are.

Actually I think you'll find atheists are very prominent in science, particularly at the highest levels (i.e. nobel laureates etc). For the most part those whom have been correcting science over the years have been the secular (sometimes atheist) scientists, those who are recently attempting to sculpt science to coincide with their belief system are strong theists who deploy all means of pseudo-science.

The tearjerking reality most atheists tend to ignore is that their beliefs are a religion like any other, and thus are in for endless scrutiny to come.

Any operational definition of a 'religion' worth using has to include belief in some sort of supernatural entity.

That and the fact that every country that has ever gone down an atheist path went under rather quickly - quite an eloquent proof for religion if anything.

That's not a proof for religion at all. First of all, atheism has no implications beyond the non-existance of God. Secondly, China is a case in point of a nation which claims 'atheist' status and has been fairly sucessful. Thirdly, even if a society is better off believing in religion this does not prove atheism wrong. Lastly, secular societies (which is what most atheists merely strive for / want to protect) are the most successful in the world.

Nobody short of a PHD physist should be declaring their atheism superior to that of christians of anybody else.

If you think you have a better argument than someone else you can go ahead and declare it the superior one if you so wish. The level of knowledge in your posession is of little importance, what is important is the argument.

Lol yeah right ...

Can you give me an example of where atheistic movements (in modern times of the western world) have fought for anything more than secularism?

 

[ElGronko]

Oh wizard man! Take me to your magical world of happiness where we think without brains and piss champagne!

Wizard man you truly did invent the earth and put people on it...if only those pesky dinosaurs didn't get in the way and make things complicated...

Oh wizard man, thank you for making earth the center of the universe, and the sun revolve around our flat continent and for punishing the infidels.

 

[ElGronko]

Christianity is a totally European idea.

Did all the aboriginals who hadn't even heard the term jesus all go to hell for 39 750 years because they didn't prey to god?

And the Indians?

And Asians?

And Papua New Guineans, Tongans, Maurise, New Caledonians and Balinese?

Did all the Africans all go to hell before Europeans had educated them?


Or were they they all supposed to just "know" that your god exists? Supposed to have guessed the bible?

They didn't believe in your god, so tell me, did they all go to hell?