Does God exist? (16 Viewers)

[davin]

you know there was still a universe before the big bang? the big bang just explains why all the planets are expanding and arranged in a particular. but what is to say there were more than one big bang? surely it is possible? either way the universe must have existed before for the big bang to occur.

um, all the planets are expanding? thats not right at all

anyway, generally speaking based off the theory of relativity, time essentially began with the big bang. we don't KNOW what there was prior to then, and we really can't use time to describe it, either. as hawking said, to talk about time before the big bang is like talking about what is south of the south pole.

It's not a question of whether or not God exists;
Its logical to believe that god/celestial force does..
The entities part, in the creation of the universe wouldn't even have to be extreme... just defining a few laws that the universe operates by... (I could explain this but it might be copied or plagiarised or misinterperted so I won't)
However, without a doubt god exists,

it entirly is a question of if god exists or not. if i roll a die and want it to be a 3, and i get a 3, all i know is that i got a 3. in effect, i take it that probability is responsible for that and not god.
i can see how one can connect god into some of the constants of the universe being what they are, and how one can then say that god is responsible, but the fact that those constants exist does not 'prove' god, because those numbers could still happen on their own.
there's PLENTY of doubt that god exists

 

[Oddy Nocki]

It's not a question of whether or not God exists;
Its logical to believe that god/celestial force does..

It's logical to believe anything. Doesn't mean that it's correct.

It certainly removes a burden. Belief results in a certain amount of comfort. Someone loves you, you're special. etc. I wish, I could have that. But any attempt to believe would be false and ultimatly make me feel empty. I can't buck pass. I don't think it acceptable; mistakes are okay, but you must accept that you are the problem and fix it.

 

[genavania]

i dont know why this thread has gone on for so long.

you cannot prove 100% that any God exists. All we as humans do is hedge our bets in one thing or other. Whether it be the christian god, allah, budda or nothing at all.

We will all find out one day and then i guess it wont matter

 

[Ror bones]

i agree with you, if there was 100% evidence proving that God existed then you wouldn't need faith in a religion and it and would be fact. isnt that why its called the christian faith.

we will find out eventually when we die. it could matter depending on if a God exists or not but it would be too late to put our faith in it/him/her because we would know for sure they existed didn't exist.

 

[genavania]

lol go pink floyd

 

[Not-That-Bright]

(I could explain this but it might be copied or plagiarised or misinterperted so I won't)

Explain away please, or link. I'm tired of your excuses and superior attitude towards us.

edit:

As for the agnostic guy... what you don't realise is that all atheists (at least that I know) agree with you, it's impossible to know 100% whether or not God exists - just as it's impossible for us to absolutely prove anything. That is why we work off provisional facts / truths... It is provisionally ture (based on the wealth of knowledge we have, and thousands of working examples) that gravity exists. Now of course, this could all just be some gigantic trick that is beyond our minds or whatever - but does that really matter?

I'll give an example of this in practice... lets say we want to disprove the existance of Santa Claus... now we might start off with disproving that reindeer can fly. Now what we do, is push them off a cliff and note whether they fly or not... now we could push thousands off a cliff, but if we don't push them all off, maybe that ONE can fly?

We are creatures of induction, so I think it's fairly clear that the logic behind saying 'well we have no evidence of the existance of god, so provisionally he doesn't exist' is a fair enough call - even tho all atheists will still say that ULTIMATELY we just don't know.

 

[ur_inner_child]

Yes, he does. Christianity is the largest religon in the world with upwards of 2.1 billion (Dedicated) Christians compared to the 1.3 billon islamic followers, and the
1.1 billion Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist peolpe in the world, and as to "The Bible is the word of God” and so it can't be used as evidence. Just ask one of the 2.1 Billion about why they belive in God. They all have a moving story, and some christians i know were stubon Atheists like you until they heard god call them.

im sorry, im having a bit of trouble locating your point.

are you playing the majority card?


aaaand another thing

Most of your morals are based on religion anyways... prior to religion man lived as savages...

hypothetically, if it was proved that God did not exist in some amazing way, and everyone was without religion, do you feel we would become so out of control?

ie do you feel that there would be no morals eg do not kill, steal, commit adultery etc?

 

[crazyhomo]

hypothetically, if it was proved that God did not exist in some amazing way, and everyone was without religion, do you feel we would become so out of control?

ie do you feel that there would be no morals eg do not kill, steal, commit adultery etc?

god is the only thing stopping him from murdering every person on the street, obviously

 

[sam04u]

It would be pointless to explain it to you all anyway...
Since it is a first hand argument... Usually people disregard first hand arguments...

Eg: So, Regardless of how much merit is in my explanation it will be challenged.

Back to the topic;

UIC, morals didn't exist pre-religion. The idea of morals is proof of religion.
Because "moral" behaviour goes against human nature.

The logic behind morals and people abiding to them is;
"God sais so"
&
"Law sais so"

Once people disregard "God", then law is forced to change; therefore there would be no reason preventing alot of "pre-existing" morals to be "forgotten".

An example of this;
The Family Law Act 1975 = 300% Increase in divorces.
Thats just one example...

Alot of our beliefs are based on morals which wouldn't exist without religion.. and would cease to exist a few generations after religion is disregarded.

Think of how illogical the statement that; "The universe came into existance without the aid of a celestial force is;"
If you can prove that; then you can fairly be an atheist... otherwise you're an "imbecile"; Because you use that as an argument but can't fully explain it?

Atleast, I can explain phenomena with my "theory"/Religion of the creation of the universe... Can you?

 

[hiphophooray123]

1+1 = 2 is a necessary truth, an absolute truth. Maybe not the language used or numbers whatever, but the proposition is an absolute truth. (this is in reply to some post on page 83)

and no, god has not been proven to exist so far, thomas aquinas couldn't provide good arguments and neither can anyone else, so far god has NOT been PROVEN to exist. It is still just a plain old belief that sucks and is corrupting everyone.


and please, anyone who uses the design argument is a complete fool.

 

[Bobness]

don't bring morals into the debate of religion. its been recognised (bah i need citations but you can do a quick google search if you want) that humans are born with an innate sense of morality and EMPATHY which changes and develops with their experience in the world

God exists to those with faith and an open heart. Hell read the bible first before disparaging His existence and if you DO remain skeptical then there is nothing much others can do to make you believe in Him. “And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him” (Hebrews 11:6). If God so desired, He could simply appear and prove to the whole world that He exists. But if He did that, there would be no need for faith. "Then Jesus told him, 'Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed'” (John 20:29).

http://www.gotquestions.org/Does-God-exist.html

there this site has quite a nice view on God's existence from a Christian perspective. sorry if this has been provided before but i am so NOT going to trudge through the 99 pages in this thread.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Alot of our beliefs are based on morals which wouldn't exist without religion.. and would cease to exist a few generations after religion is disregarded.

I think i've explained how our morals have come into being, without a god, and how the morals in religion are there and so uniform because the morals made the religion not the other way around - why do you disagree with me? I just said that you know... humans are social animals, animals which look out for each other are more likely to live longer than ones that don't (at our evolutionary level), so the reason why we have these morals about caring each other is because they're programmed into our genes.

Does God exist? I find it interesting that so much attention is given to this debate. The latest surveys tell us that over 90% of people in the world today believe in the existence of God or some higher power. Yet, somehow the responsibility is placed on those who believe God does exist to somehow prove that He really does exist. To me, I think it should be the other way around.

That first sentence made me not continue reading.

But if He did that, there would be no need for faith.

Duh. Now why have faith in something you have no evidence for, you just like the sound of? This thread is about evidence, not just 'lol read the bible and u know if u don't believe after that u sark' - there is no good reason to believe the bible to be found in the bible.

 

[hiphophooray123]

self preservation

 

[Bobness]

morals and religion like i've already said are not inherently linked

that's just elitism

 

[Mr. Sabuncuoglu]

im 100% certain he exists lol...

 

[Not-That-Bright]

im 100% certain he exists lol...

lol... cool man, what makes you so certain?

 

[hiphophooray123]

paradox of the rock:

1. since god is supposed to be all powerful he would be able to create a rock so heavy that even he couldn't lift it

2. but if he can't lift it, then he wouldn't be all powerful

3. therefore, god is not all powerful.


this argument always makes me laugh , coz i picture a naked man trying to lift a rock

 

[Generator]

UIC, morals didn't exist pre-religion. The idea of morals is proof of religion.
Because "moral" behaviour goes against human nature.

... and many, if not all, facets of religion are based upon social orders that existed prior to the creation of the whichever faith is being discussed.

Nobody here is denying the role that religion has played over the years, but you are in the wrong if you are trying to suggest that social orders and notions of 'right' and 'wrong' only came into existence with the rise of Abraham.

As NTB and others have said, sam04u, we are social animals, and in order to function within a society we require some form of social order so that we may interact with and belong to the soceity in question. Such social orders are an inherent part of our social make-up, and they aren't the sole preserve of religion (nor did they first come about as a result of a 'religious revelation').

Atleast, I can explain phenomena with my "theory"/Religion of the creation of the universe... Can you?

"It was a god" isn't an explanation.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

2. The greater the disability or handicap of the creator, the more impressive the achievement is.

Haha yea i read a website talking about that point before... about how when christians marvel at how awesome God is, they're forgetting that he's omnipotent... he's perfect! The analogy the guy in the essay uses is 'it's like a professional clown juggling 2 balls and expecting people to be impressed'.

 

[davin]

Think of how illogical the statement that; "The universe came into existance without the aid of a celestial force is;"
If you can prove that; then you can fairly be an atheist... otherwise you're an "imbecile"; Because you use that as an argument but can't fully explain it?

Atleast, I can explain phenomena with my "theory"/Religion of the creation of the universe... Can you?

Think of how illogical the statement that "The universe came into existance without the aid of the flying spaghetti monster" is. If you can prove that you can fairly not believe in the flying spaghetti monster, otherwise you're an "imbecile"