Does God exist? (4 Viewers)

[Riet]

Hmmm... I suppose however that logic and science, under which Occam's Razor is applied are limited within known space-time and hence have no relevance beyond space-time when the Universe was created.

The universe wasn't created in spacetime it is finite but boundary-less.

If there is no evidence of any god, and no need for one for life on earth to continue functioning occam's razor dictates that no god exists, much less any as specific as specified by world's religions. Also Occam's Razor is a philosophical and logical rule it is not bounded by space-time.

Also congratulations on essentially saying: "When you ignore all reason and probability, you can believe what you want!" Ignorance is bliss but the stupid still look foolish.

 

[Riet]

Sustain with food perhaps but like, we have ~other shit~.

 

[Name_Taken]

The universe wasn't created in spacetime it is finite but boundary-less.

Can someone clarify this please?

 

[Riet]

Asking what was before the universe is like what's asking north of the north pole. It exists but there is no boundary.

In A Brief History of Time Hawking writes:

One could say: "The boundary condition of the universe is that it has no boundary." The universe would be completely self-contained and not affected by anything outside itself. It would neither be created nor destroyed. It would just BE.

 

[Iron]

Yes and human life is merely a participant in this Being without beginning or end - this life that must be the God who contains both the alpha and omega

 

[ClockworkSoldier]

Futility is a wonderous thing.

 

[NewiJapper]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riet
The universe wasn't created in spacetime it is finite but boundary-less.

Can someone clarify this please?

Well, from my understanding and reasoning..I think the universe being finite means that in our universe where things exist, really only extends to so far while anything beyond that is consisted of nothing-ness. Hence it is somehow finite but boundary-less at the same time.

At least that's how I can see that that statement could be understood as true. Hope that made sense

 

[Name_Taken]

Well, from my understanding and reasoning..I think the universe being finite means that in our universe where things exist, really only extends to so far while anything beyond that is consisted of nothing-ness. Hence it is somehow finite but boundary-less at the same time.

At least that's how I can see that that statement could be understood as true. Hope that made sense

Ah k thanks, so although there is an infinite volume of where matter may BE, but there is only a finite section of that infinite volume where matter IS?

 

[SeCKSiiMiNh]

sorry, that's not Gods fault.


ecologically, the world can sustain a population 30x what it is now..


but no, we use 1000kg of grain, to produce 1kg of beef, as well as
45 424.9 liters of water to produce one pound (600ish grams) of beef.

to fuel our vast demands for energy, we clear rainforests to produce corn for biodiesel.

where there are fertile lands which can grow potatoes, wheat, rice, etc, we use to grow cotton, tobacco, coffee, tea ... cash crops.

pfft.
nice points of reasoning..

Lol. Answer this mate. Why did god help save a couple of old farts from cancer and stuff when we know he could do much better and prevented an earthquake hitting china, or another earthquake hitting haiti or the tsunami in 2004 (or was it 2005?)? ORRR even spared one life by preventing a stray bullet from entering a church and killing a poor christian boy (Boy in church killed by stray bullet) ?

 

[Name_Taken]

Lol. Answer this mate. Why did god help save a couple of old farts from cancer and stuff when we know he could do much better and prevented an earthquake hitting china, or another earthquake hitting haiti or the tsunami in 2004 (or was it 2005?)? ORRR even spared one life by preventing a stray bullet from entering a church and killing a poor christian boy (Boy in church killed by stray bullet) ?

God loves everyone equally. He is just as likely (well I don't know this exactly, since I can't imagine what being in His position is trully like) to save a satanist from death as He would be to save the Pope. Obviously should He choose to intervene in this world to save someone (anyone, Christian or not) from death, one would assume He had reason enough to do so.

If you believe in Him, dying, in whatever way, natural disaster, cancer, being murdered, will signal the end of your time in this life, and the dawn of your eternal life in Heaven.

Why would you be so desperate as to stay in this life for as long as possible, when it is only a fleeting prelude to the eternal next life? If you believe, you see death as not the end, but the dawn of a new beginning.

 

[SeCKSiiMiNh]

God loves everyone equally. He is just as likely (well I don't know this exactly, since I can't imagine what being in His position is trully like) to save a satanist from death as He would be to save the Pope. Obviously should He choose to intervene in this world to save someone (anyone, Christian or not) from death, one would assume He had reason enough to do so.

What POSSIBLE reason could he have for saving some middle aged woman instead of some poor 4 year old with his life still ahead of him?

If you believe in Him, dying, in whatever way, natural disaster, cancer, being murdered, will signal the end of your time in this life, and the dawn of your eternal life in Heaven.

Why would you be so desperate as to stay in this life for as long as possible, when it is only a fleeting prelude to the eternal next life? If you believe, you see death as not the end, but the dawn of a new beginning.

Would you like me to end your life now then?

 

[Name_Taken]

What POSSIBLE reason could he have for saving some middle aged woman instead of some poor 4 year old with his life still ahead of him?

Lol, like anything. Its not that He wanted the 4 year old to die, like just because He didn't stop it from happening means He killed the 4 year old. The dickhead with the gun did. He just didn't intervene with that guys free will to be a dickhead and mess around with a gun, and committing murder.

Would you like me to end your life now then?

Haha, no not really ;P

I have goals I'd like to achieve in life, before I die. Just because death is a new beginning, doesn't mean I can't wait to die, or will take risks and do stupid things in the hope of dying.

Its just when I inevitably do die, for w/e reason, its not something to be sad about.

 

[SeCKSiiMiNh]

Lol, like anything. Its not that He wanted the 4 year old to die, like just because He didn't stop it from happening means He killed the 4 year old. The dickhead with the gun did. He just didn't intervene with that guys free will to be a dickhead and mess around with a gun, and committing murder.

Failure to act is just as bad. God had every means at his disposal to prevent that bullet from hitting the boy but god was negligent!!! He had a duty of care to save that boy and he didn't!

Haha, no not really ;P

I have goals I'd like to achieve in life, before I die. Just because death is a new beginning, doesn't mean I can't wait to die, or will take risks and do stupid things in the hope of dying.

Its just when I inevitably do die, for w/e reason, its not something to be sad about.

Goodness gracious. What could you possibly want to achieve in life that you must put going to heaven on hold? Couldn't you achieve those things in heaven?

 

[Name_Taken]

Failure to act is just as bad. God had every means at his disposal to prevent that bullet from hitting the boy but god was negligent!!! He had a duty of care to save that boy and he didn't!

Lol, no he gave people the free will to do what they want, even break His rules, i.e. killing another. Hes not going to stop them, simply becuase their mistakes will cause consequences to innocent others, thats something for them to consider before they shoot of a gun like morons.

God (I imagine) would only get involved in human affairs when there are very good reasons for doing so, else He disrupts the whole notion of free will, if you sorta see where I'm comming from.

God has no duty of care to anyone lol. The kid died, but for all you know may be enjoying eternal life now. I feel sorry for his parents though.

Goodness gracious. What could you possibly want to achieve in life that you must put going to heaven on hold? Couldn't you achieve those things in heaven?

Lol, get married, have kids, make the world a better place

TBH I don't know what I want to devote my life to ATM haha (IDK do you?), but I want to at least contribute to the greater good in some way.

Just because its a prelude, doesn't make it irrelevant, you can still endevour to accomplish things.

 

[SeCKSiiMiNh]

Lol, no he gave people the free will to do what they want, even break His rules, i.e. killing another. Hes not going to stop them, simply becuase their mistakes will cause consequences to innocent others, thats something for them to consider before they shoot of a gun like morons.

God (I imagine) would only get involved in human affairs when there are very good reasons for doing so, else He disrupts the whole notion of free will, if you sorta see where I'm comming from.

God has no duty of care to anyone lol. The kid died, but for all you know may be enjoying eternal life now. I feel sorry for his parents though.

God saved a couple of old farts and people scream "MIRACLE" yet he allowed about 300,000 (on average) to die each day from accidents, murders, old age (and not to mention hundreds of thousands who die from tsunamis and earthquakes).... etc.. this is something that I will never understand.

Lol, get married, have kids, make the world a better place

TBH I don't know what I want to devote my life to ATM haha (IDK do you?), but I want to at least contribute to the greater good in some way.

Just because its a prelude, doesn't make it irrelevant, you can still endevour to accomplish things.

You can do all that in heaven

Also, a question about heaven. Since it's heaven, you'll live forever right? What age would you be? Would you be reborn like normal, then grow to a certain age and stay that age? Or would remain as you were on the day you died, except of course, with a heavenly halo on your head? Could you die in heaven? Probably no, but what if you were stabbed, decapitated and quartered? Would we get to meet god? Maybe get an autograph maybe?

 

[Name_Taken]

God saved a couple of old farts and people scream "MIRACLE" yet he allowed about 300,000 (on average) to die each day from accidents, murders, old age (and not to mention hundreds of thousands who die from tsunamis and earthquakes).... etc.. this is something that I will never understand.

I don't see your point, death is inevitable. In a population of 6 billion hundreds of thousands will die each day (as are born). Whether through accidents, old age or crime, people die all the time.

Death is not a bad thing, even if you are not religious you have to accept that it is totally inevitable, the only difference is when, where and how (and the individual has a degree of choice in these).

You can do all that in heaven

Also, a question about heaven. Since it's heaven, you'll live forever right? What age would you be? Would you be reborn like normal, then grow to a certain age and stay that age? Or would remain as you were on the day you died, except of course, with a heavenly halo on your head? Could you die in heaven? Probably no, but what if you were stabbed, decapitated and quartered? Would we get to meet god? Maybe get an autograph maybe?

Heaven is not in this universe if you will. Its in a seperate dimension of existence, as is God. While I'm here, what is wrong with aspiring to make the world a better place, now? and help those in need?

I won't choose to die either. I could kill myself, or get someone else to kill me, but this would equate to murder (even the murder of oneself). One could hardly say they are trying to reach eternal sinless life through a sin itself.

You can't die in Heaven, it is eternal life, as Hell is eternal death. And you can't marry in Heaven;
In Matthew 22, the Sadducees, in an attempt to discredit Jesus, came to Him with a question regarding marriage and the resurrection. Jesus answered them with these words: “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (verse 30).

I asked the same questions too actually (what do you look like in Heaven etc.), and not many people could offer an answer. Like, if a person died after their arm had been amputated, would they have one arm in Heaven, and if you died when you're 100 will you be old and frail etc.

What will we look like in Heaven?

Its a really good website, it could prob answer a lot of your other questions as well.

 

[SeCKSiiMiNh]

I don't see your point, death is inevitable. In a population of 6 billion hundreds of thousands will die each day (as are born). Whether through accidents, old age or crime, people die all the time.

All I'm trying to say is that I don't understand why god would save some people (who have lived a long full life) instead of someone who still has a full life right ahead of them? I mean, if that bullet had miss the boy by like, an inch, then my "disbelief" in god would of course be shaken.

 

[Name_Taken]

All I'm trying to say is that I don't understand why god would save some people (who have lived a long full life) instead of someone who still has a full life right ahead of them? I mean, if that bullet had miss the boy by like, an inch, then my "disbelief" in god would of course be shaken.

(Pasted for convenience):

This is one of the most difficult questions in all of theology. God is eternal, infinite, omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. Why should human beings (not eternal, infinite, omniscient, omnipresent, or omnipotent) expect to be able to fully understand God’s ways? The book of Job deals with this issue. God had allowed Satan to do everything he wanted to Job except kill him. What was Job’s reaction? “Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him” (Job 13:15). “The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away; may the name of the LORD be praised” (Job 1:21). Job did not understand why God had allowed the things He did, but he knew God was good and therefore continued to trust in Him. Ultimately, that should be our reaction as well.

Why do bad things happen to good people? The biblical answer is there are no “good” people. The Bible makes it abundantly clear that all of us are tainted by and infected with sin (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 6:23; 1 John 1:8). Romans 3:10-18 could not be clearer about the non-existence of “good” people: “There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one. Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit. The poison of vipers is on their lips. Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed blood; ruin and misery mark their ways, and the way of peace they do not know. There is no fear of God before their eyes.” Every human being on this planet deserves to be thrown into hell at this very moment. Every second we spend alive is only by the grace and mercy of God. Even the most terrible misery we could experience on this planet is merciful compared to what we deserve, eternal hell in the lake of fire.

A better question would be “Why does God allow good things to happen to bad people?” Romans 5:8 declares, “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” Despite the evil, wicked, sinful nature of the people of this world, God still loves us. He loved us enough to die to take the penalty for our sins (Romans 6:23). If we receive Jesus Christ as Savior (John 3:16; Romans 10:9), we will be forgiven and promised an eternal home in heaven (Romans 8:1). What we deserve is hell. What we are given is eternal life in heaven if we come to Christ in faith.

Yes, sometimes bad things happen to people who seem undeserving of them. But God allows things to happen for His reasons, whether or not we understand them. Above all, however, we must remember that God is good, just, loving, and merciful. Often things happen to us that we simply cannot understand. However, instead of doubting God's goodness, our reaction should be to trust Him. ”Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight” (Proverbs 3:5-6).

 

[SeCKSiiMiNh]

That's too easy! Bad things happen because god must have his reasons?!?!?! That's not good enough! What are these reasons?

 

[ilikebeeef]

To say "God exists because you can't prove he doesn't exist" is like saying that someone is "guilty until proven innocent" in the context of the Salem witch trials. There is no reliable evidence for or against witchcraft ("it is an invisible crime, is it not?"), therefore the accused, whether they committed the "crime" or not, is always guilty (you can relate this to Arthur Miller's play The Crucible ).

Screwed up system/thinking much?

Therefore, because there is no evidence for or against a higher supernatural being, you cannot say if it exists or not.

EDIT: But, one thing. God (as Christians perceive it to be), does not make sense at all. He gives free will, but threatens to send people to hell if they do not use it in a way that HE wants them to. That's blackmail. So loving, eh?

DOUBLE EDIT: And it's quite funny how people perceive God to be unchanging, stubborn and so serious. What if he has a sense of humour, makes mistakes, and learns from them? Therefore, you cannot "know" who God is (if it exists!)! How can you love something you don't know without some form of character construction going on in your mind?