Does God exist? (4 Viewers)

[volition]

christians have teachings which guide them to their beliefs. And that faith has the common belief.
And obviously, you can never prove God exists. Thats a strong notion in christianity, FAITH. Apart of being christian means you dont need evidence. This DOESNT prove God exists obviously, why? as i said he cant be proven.

Alright, I'll ask you the same question that I asked Erin. Why do you choose one God over another?

 

[StGeorgeDragons]

Alright, I'll ask you the same question that I asked Erin. Why do you choose one God over another?

i didnt choose one God over another. Firstly There is only one God. I believe jewish, islam and christian God is the same thing. and also all religions in the world, i think its just somehow different interpretations. And i was born into christianity, and have grown up with it. Ive believed in it.

If i wasnt born into christianity, id still believe in one God, but id probably still recognize all relgions as being valid and take parts from them. Right now i respect the other religions and believe in some of their teachings, its possible.

Just as long as u understand, there is as much prove that God doesnt exist as there is he does. Theres only petty reasoning, that doesnt get u anywhere. This thread is pointless.

 

[Lundy]

What about polytheistic religions?

 

[Captain Gh3y]

A religion without a Goddess is halfway to atheism!

 

[davin]

Just as long as u understand, there is as much prove that God doesnt exist as there is he does. Theres only petty reasoning, that doesnt get u anywhere. This thread is pointless.

Its virtually impossible to have proof something doesn't exist. One can just cast doubt in circumstances where there is a lack of proof that something does exist.

Example: the only way to prove there is no Loch Ness monster is by draining the lake. very complicated. But the fact that there is not a large amount of significant, undismisible evidence for the Loch Ness monster allows us to then reach the conclusion that there does not appear to be such a thing.

Similarly, the question against God is that to many, there is lacking that irrefutable evidence that there is a god of any fashion.
The question isn't, is there more proof for God or against, but is there any objective evidence for God that cannot be explained otherwise, beyond such things as interpretting specific segments of holy texts to somehow reveal something unknown at the time if other areas of the same texts are wrong. What evidence is there for a god, gods, etc that can be seen from the natural world and doesn't require first accepting some sort of religious beliefs to see said evidence.

 

[StGeorgeDragons]

What evidence is there for a god, gods, etc that can be seen from the natural world and doesn't require first accepting some sort of religious beliefs to see said evidence.

None. There never will be.

If there was evidence, then everyone in the world would believe in God, wheres the fun in that? You wouldnt be able to have this thread. So many wars would be avoided. Everyone would be in peace. How would you live your life, imagine if you knew someone was watching you 24/7.....

AND LET ME STATE.... im not saying at all this proves God, im giving you some reasoning.

 

[Generator]

None. There never will be.

If there was evidence, then everyone in the world would believe in God, wheres the fun in that? You wouldnt be able to have this thread. So many wars would be avoided. Everyone would be in peace. How would you live your life, imagine if you knew someone was watching you 24/7.....

AND LET ME STATE.... im not saying at all this proves God, im giving you some reasoning.

Reasoning? For the record, we would be at war with or without religion - in terms of war and society, religion is just one way of othering those who are different.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

christians have teachings which guide them to their beliefs. And that faith has the common belief.
And obviously, you can never prove God exists. Thats a strong notion in christianity, FAITH. Apart of being christian means you dont need evidence. This DOESNT prove God exists obviously, why? as i said he cant be proven.

If you can't prove it, why do you believe it?

 

[davin]

Reasoning? For the record, we would be at war with or without religion - in terms of war and society, religion is just one way of othering those who are different.

i think his point was that if everyone knew there was a god, everyone would act peacefully.
however, wars aren't caused by people who think there's a god vs people who don't, or entirely by people who don't think there's a god, it is very often caused by people who believe there is a god and believe they know what said god wants. the danger of religion isn't the disbelievers, its people who do horrible things in the name of god and use religion as their justification. In that sense, if anything, there would be more wars of that fashion if there was proof that there just was a god. The current wars right now between the western generally christian world and the islamic world are exactly an example of groups that believe there is a god and both think god is on their side. the issue between the jews and palestinians is another.

of course, there's been plenty of wars unrelated to religion, like both world wars, and plenty of killings carried out either against religion, like many deaths in the holocaust, or by athiest governements, such as russia and china, but the existance of religion, and its fanatics, have led to plenty of deaths in their own right.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Religion makes people do a lot of stupid things.

If you had turned on your TV recently you'd have seen millions of people running around a building like lunatics, injuring thousands of themselves in the process.

 

[Generator]

i think his point was that if everyone knew there was a god, everyone would act peacefully.

however, wars aren't caused by people who think there's a god vs people who don't, or entirely by people who don't think there's a god, it is very often caused by people who believe there is a god and believe they know what said god wants. the danger of religion isn't the disbelievers, its people who do horrible things in the name of god and use religion as their justification. In that sense, if anything, there would be more wars of that fashion if there was proof that there just was a god. The current wars right now between the western generally christian world and the islamic world are exactly an example of groups that believe there is a god and both think god is on their side. the issue between the jews and palestinians is another.

of course, there's been plenty of wars unrelated to religion, like both world wars, and plenty of killings carried out either against religion, like many deaths in the holocaust, or by athiest governements, such as russia and china, but the existance of religion, and its fanatics, have led to plenty of deaths in their own right.

I know what he meant, and it's a point that I consider to be invalid. I don't agree with the suggestion that without religion such wars and atrocities would not be taking place and that extremists are necessarily religious - as I said, we humans are quite capable of othering those who are different with or without religion. A particular group doesn't need a religion to be of the opinion that it is right and more deserving than those outside of the group, after all.

Edit: Removed a pointless 'also'

 

[StGeorgeDragons]

I know what he meant, and it's a point that I consider to be invalid. I don't agree with the suggestion that without religion such wars and atrocities would not be taking place and that extremists are necessarily religious - as I said, we humans are quite capable of othering those who are different with or without religion. A particular group doesn't need a religion to be of the opinion that it is right and more deserving than those outside of the group, after all.

Edit: Removed a pointless 'also'

that wasnt the point i was arguing in my comment, i was describing the consequences if everyone believed 100% in a God. You all took the wrong part to focus on in my comment. Forget about the war stuff, it wasnt my suggestion at all, i said it could be a consequence. Imagine if God could be proven. It would completly change the way we all act. Even those who say they believe in God, with evidence, imagine the fear in living.

I cant believe u had all those post about the way comment, that wasnt the focus at all. U all just focused on the part of wat i said which is arguable. If we know God exists, would u think twice about swearing at someone, invading someone? U could look at it like that.

 

[volition]

i didnt choose one God over another. Firstly There is only one God. I believe jewish, islam and christian God is the same thing. and also all religions in the world, i think its just somehow different interpretations. And i was born into christianity, and have grown up with it. Ive believed in it.
If i wasnt born into christianity, id still believe in one God, but id probably still recognize all relgions as being valid and take parts from them. Right now i respect the other religions and believe in some of their teachings, its possible.

I don't think this answer is really good enough. First of all, Judaism, Christianity and Islam are not the ONLY 3 religions in this world. There are thousands of religions, with many(if not all) of them claiming to be the 'one true' religion. So you say that you've found a way to 'reconcile' the beliefs of every religion in the world together? I doubt it. There are far too many conflicting beliefs to be able to do that. If you just 'pick n mix' bits and pieces, tell us why you do that then.

This 'taking parts from all, but there's still one god' is akin to a Hindu and a Christian getting together and saying that both of their religions lead to the same end, when Christianity's texts state that "Jesus is the ONLY way to salvation". Do you see the point I'm making here? Basically, most religions seem mutually exclusive. Believe this, not that! THIS book is the True Book! No False Gods! Or ELSE! But, as usual, people pick the bits they like and discard the bits that they don't.

I need you to tell me why you think your particular beliefs are correct and why you've seen fit to just 'pick and mix' religion.

 

[transcendent]

even if there was a God, and it can be proven, human nature gets the better of us. we do what we like to a certain degree and in certain circumstance we will do what we like regardless of consequences. God or not there will always be misery. at least without religion i don't feel repressed.

 

[davin]

that wasnt the point i was arguing in my comment, i was describing the consequences if everyone believed 100% in a God. You all took the wrong part to focus on in my comment. Forget about the war stuff, it wasnt my suggestion at all, i said it could be a consequence. Imagine if God could be proven. It would completly change the way we all act. Even those who say they believe in God, with evidence, imagine the fear in living.
I cant believe u had all those post about the way comment, that wasnt the focus at all. U all just focused on the part of wat i said which is arguable. If we know God exists, would u think twice about swearing at someone, invading someone? U could look at it like that.

plenty of people who DO believe in god do those sort of things, anyway though. On the opposite side, I don't do things like swear at people, even though i don't believe there is a god, just because i try to do what is right.
People use God as justification so much that if there was enough to proof there was a God, but his desires couldn't be determined objectively, there would still be just as much being done by people that feel they are doing what god wants, even if it is what others would consider very morally objectionable.


there was a religious figure, I believe of Hinduism, that at some religious conference of all the religions abck in the, 1800s i think, had said that all religions are the same because its like they're all just different paths on the same mountain, but in the end they all reach the top.

 

[volition]

Davin, I really doubt that all religions are the same just 'different paths on the same mountain' becuase they preach different things. Some beliefs are plain and simply put, irreconcilable.

I believe that you do not need a 'sacred text' to tell you what to do. I believe that even without Christianity/religion you can be a moral person, by just adhering to what could be called 'procedural fairness', and a heightened self-awareness (for example, I wouldn't like to be assaulted in the street, hence I don't do it to other people). I don't believe that the Bible is necessary for society to function well, although I will admit that some of the messages contained in the Bible are good ones, such as 'love thy neighbour'.

On the other hand, there are also some 'questionable' teachings in the bible, (maybe I'm just interpreting them wrong). But for example, have a look at 2 Kings 2:23-24, where basically a bunch of kids pay out a guy for being bald. The bald guy curses them in the name of the Lord, and 42 she-bears come out of the woods and maim/kill the kids. That's some brilliant teaching there isn't it?

Let's have a look at something else presented in the bible. Hmmm... what about Luke 6:30, where it basically says "if someone asks you for money, give it to them and if somebody takes something, do not ask for it back". How's that for absolute morality? Next time you find a person who literally believes everything in the Bible, quote this verse and ask them for their money... after all, it's part of their sacred text and the language used is pretty clear... not much else you can interpret it as. If you asked them for their money and they didn't give it to you, they'd feel bad now wouldn't they? So just go and do the 'right thing' and don't feel ashamed as you take their money (note: obviously this may not apply to people who don't take the Bible literally, because they'd just rather re-interpret the bible to suit whatever they want to do)

 

[davin]

Davin, I really doubt that all religions are the same just 'different paths on the same mountain' becuase they preach different things. Some beliefs are plain and simply put, irreconcilable.
I believe that you do not need a 'sacred text' to tell you what to do. I believe that even without Christianity/religion you can be a moral person, by just adhering to what could be called 'procedural fairness', and a heightened self-awareness (for example, I wouldn't like to be assaulted in the street, hence I don't do it to other people). I don't believe that the Bible is necessary for society to function well, although I will admit that some of the messages contained in the Bible are good ones, such as 'love thy neighbour'.
On the other hand, there are also some 'questionable' teachings in the bible, (maybe I'm just interpreting them wrong). But for example, have a look at 2 Kings 2:23-24, where basically a bunch of kids pay out a guy for being bald. The bald guy curses them in the name of the Lord, and 42 she-bears come out of the woods and maim/kill the kids. That's some brilliant teaching there isn't it?
Let's have a look at something else presented in the bible. Hmmm... what about Luke 6:30, where it basically says "if someone asks you for money, give it to them and if somebody takes something, do not ask for it back". How's that for absolute morality? Next time you find a person who literally believes everything in the Bible, quote this verse and ask them for their money... after all, it's part of their sacred text and the language used is pretty clear... not much else you can interpret it as. If you asked them for their money and they didn't give it to you, they'd feel bad now wouldn't they? So just go and do the 'right thing' and don't feel ashamed as you take their money (note: obviously this may not apply to people who don't take the Bible literally, because they'd just rather re-interpret the bible to suit whatever they want to do)

i only brought the part about paths up the same mountain up as the topic of all religions just being acceptable had been discussed. i was reminded of that little bit from the last class i took on religions a few years back

if the rest was a responce to me, in no way do i think that you need religious texts, or even religion, to act morally. for starters, i'd like to think that i act morally, and i'm not, nor have i ever been, religious. for me, then, knowing for sure that there was a god would in no way suddenly get me to act 'more moral'.

 

[Generator]

that wasnt the point i was arguing in my comment, i was describing the consequences if everyone believed 100% in a God. You all took the wrong part to focus on in my comment. Forget about the war stuff, it wasnt my suggestion at all, i said it could be a consequence. Imagine if God could be proven. It would completly change the way we all act. Even those who say they believe in God, with evidence, imagine the fear in living.

I cant believe u had all those post about the way comment, that wasnt the focus at all. U all just focused on the part of wat i said which is arguable. If we know God exists, would u think twice about swearing at someone, invading someone? U could look at it like that.

Ah, if you looked back at my post that actually followed your own, you would have realised that I questioned such 'reasoning' (admittedly in a brief manner) and made note of the fact that we are capable of othering those different to us with or without religion. The particular post that you are questioning was largely in response to davin's post, a post that expanded upon your own.

For the record, I did consider your point of view, and as I said I'm of the opinion that it is invalid. It is a point of view that assumes the world and neglects human nature.

 

[erin_tonkin]

in answer to the question of why i choose Christianity and not just some other religion is because of grace. I have read the bible and found out about Jesus who is the son of God and came to earth to save everyone from death. He was crucified to pay the price for all the bad things that we do. Now im no axe murderer but i know that If it were the things that I did that got me to heaven I would be nowhere near.

All other religions I have studdied have so many flaws in them and I know christianity to be true. I cant prove it but I believe it and have faith in it and i just know.

Also to the question whether I think my religion is the only one. Yes I do. Christianity is fundamentally different to all other religions. You simply cannot believe that they are all right as they each contradict each other.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

in answer to the question of why i choose Christianity and not just some other religion is because of grace. I have read the bible and found out about Jesus who is the son of God and came to earth to save everyone from death. He was crucified to pay the price for all the bad things that we do. Now im no axe murderer but i know that If it were the things that I did that got me to heaven I would be nowhere near.

All other religions I have studdied have so many flaws in them and I know christianity to be true. I cant prove it but I believe it and have faith in it and i just know.

Also to the question whether I think my religion is the only one. Yes I do. Christianity is fundamentally different to all other religions. You simply cannot believe that they are all right as they each contradict each other.

Please, if you are going to take part in this thread, offer a sensible contribution. Do not simply say "I believe this and I know it's true."