Does God exist? (4 Viewers)

[littlewing69]

Didn't jesus say stuff? didn't jesus reveal some stuff about god/the world?

Yes he did. Some of his words have been interpreted into Christian practise, others are largely ignored. Other concepts have pretty much been invented. As hard as you try, you'll find scant evidence for the Trinity in Jesus' words. Nor will you ever see Jesus say that heaven is a sure bet if you just "accept Jesus into your heart". These things may be loosely scripturally based, but Jesus did not say them. Indeed, Jesus' most important words, the Sermon on the Mount, is rarely implemented in any real sense. Modern Christianity doesn't resemble the religion Jesus outlined in this inspiring sermon. As such, it isn't fair to say that Christianity is just the Bible, or vice versa. Some denominations are closer to Biblical tradition, some interpet it differently, others have lots of extra-scriptural practise/beliefs.

 

[davin]

However whether you're Christian or Atheist, I'm sure you'll agree that everything that exists in the Universe today must at some point have come into existence

can we expand that one to god?

 

[littlewing69]

can we expand that one to god?

Touche. The classic refutation of the "first cause" argument from God.

Edit: to be fair, he did say "everything that exists IN the Universe". Christians take God as being both transcendant and immanent, and so God exists both in and out of our realm of existence. As such, the Christian could say that the immanent part of God HAS come into existence simultaneously with the creation of the Universe, while the transcendent part of God has always been.

 

[bazookajoe]

Also how can you take the word of what is written in Genesis? I mean how do these people know how the earth was created. Sorry If I sound ignorant. Did God like tell the authors what happened, or is it just like a Dreamtime story or Greek Mythology. Do you think Apollo existed and was a God? I mean aren't there just as many architectural designs and temples and such depicting some of his stories?

2.1 billion followers can't be wrong! Plus the Jewish I guess.

 

[otay]

How do you know that Brazil/Spain/China or some place you have never visited exists?

Ahaha are u kidding me?

 

[otay]

2.1 billion followers can't be wrong! Plus the Jewish I guess.

What about the other 4 billion? They can be wrong I guess? Mate your logic is awesome

 

[gerhard]

What about the other 4 billion? They can be wrong I guess? Mate your logic is awesome

someone has to be wrong
if your an athiest/agnostic, then more than 4 billion must be wrong

 

[littlewing69]

What about the other 4 billion? They can be wrong I guess? Mate your logic is awesome

I'm pretty sure he was joking. If not, yes, he is an imbecile. Classic "argument from popularity".

 

[blue_chameleon]

Oh, I get it. You got upset that there's people here who have quite a strong justification for disagreeing with you, but because you're so pigheaded in your religious beliefs instead of debating you've decided to just sit back, belittle them, and gloat to yourself about how superior you are.

Umm, wtf?
No, you dont get it.

Look again.

Step back and you will see that this is a debate that neither side will ever win. Ever.

I wasnt actually aiming my comment to anybody in particular. You have your quite blunt opinion of me, and heck........thats fine mate. If that you happy, then go for it.

I just thought that you of all people would have realised when it is time to move on.

 

[littlewing69]

Umm, wtf?

Step back and you will see that this is a debate that neither side will ever win. Ever.


I just thought that you of all people would have realised when it is time to move on.

You can move on if you wish. The rest of us are having a discussion about an important philosophical issue. No one need "win".

 

[davin]

facts aren't democratic

 

[UnIqUe_PrInCeSs]

hey peeps.....read this ...it's really good

Fw: Somebody's Raising Their Kids Right!

One day a 6 year old girl was sitting in a classroom. The teacher
was going to explain evolution to the children.

The teacher asked a little
boy: Tommy do you see the tree outside?
TOMMY: Yes.
TEACHER: Tommy, do you see the grass outside?
TOMMY: Yes.
TEACHER: Go outside and look up and see if you can see the
sky.
TOMMY: Okay. (He returned a few minutes later) Yes, I saw the
sky.
TEACHER: Did you see God up there?
TOMMY: No.
TEACHER: That's my point. We can't see God because
he isn't there.
Possibly he just doesn't exist.

A little girl spoke up and wanted to ask the boy some questions.
The teacher agreed and the little girl asked the boy: Tommy, do
you see
the tree outside?
TOMMY: Yes.
LITTLE GIRL: Tommy do you see the grass outside?
TOMMY: Yessssss!
LITTLE GIRL: Did you see the sky?
TOMMY: Yessssss!
LITTLE GIRL: Tommy, do you see the teacher?
TOMMY: Yes
LITTLE GIRL: Do you see her brain?
TOMMY: No
LITTLE GIRL: Then according to what we were taught today in
school, she
possibly may not even have one!
(You Go Girl!)
"FOR WE WALK BY FAITH, NOT BY SIGHT"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that forward expresses my views very clearly, that you don't have to see something to believe it.
But then again, that's only my opinion and you don't have to agree with me.
K L8er:wave:

 

[AntiHyper]

Actually thats wrong, you can get a CT scan and you can see the image of our brain.

We can't CT scan the sky and see god.

 

[robo-andie]

Actually thats wrong, you can get a CT scan and you can see the image of our brain.

We can't CT scan the sky and see god.

Yes, agreed. It was a bad example really, but we can all understand the message.

Not everything exists in a physical sense. Sometimes, all we have is faith to guide and reassure us.
No one else can see (with their eyes) our thoughts, though we are positive they are there. No one can see our feelings/emotions or see our pain, though we know it exists.
All we can see of some things, is the cause and effect. Perhaps that's all we will ever see of God.

 

[SashatheMan]

Yes, agreed. It was a bad example really, but we can all understand the message.

Not everything exists in a physical sense. Sometimes, all we have is faith to guide and reassure us.
No one else can see (with their eyes) our thoughts, though we are positive they are there. No one can see our feelings/emotions or see our pain, though we know it exists.
All we can see of some things, is the cause and effect. Perhaps that's all we will ever see of God.

we can describe and understand to some extent how emotions work.

 

[robo-andie]

we can describe and understand to some extent how emotions work. people studied the different release of chemicals in the brain and link them to emotions, so dont try to compare it to god. because so far theres no way to test for god.

When you listen to a story and enjoy it, how do you feel?
When you think about someone you love, how do you feel?
When you hear about something great that's about to happen, how do you feel?

There are emotions linked to everything, we experience them all the time, and it is because of everything around us, not just the things we can see and touch, but the things we can feel and know, those things we can imagine. The people who strongly believe in God, surely feel an emotion when they think of him, when they hear the words of God, or when they hear of something amazing about to happen.
We understand our emotions, even when we can't see them. We understand that emotions occur as a result of our body reacting to it's environment. So even if we can't test and see if God is real, we know that the belief in him can affect people.

maybe yuo can try testing god by going into a lion pit and telling god to save you if he exists, but i leave that up to you the beleivers

Perhaps in his wisdom he would allow you to do die, and consequently save you from your suffering and doubt, by showing you heaven and himself?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I think that forward expresses my views very clearly, that you don't have to see something to believe it.
But then again, that's only my opinion and you don't have to agree with me.

People have other justified reasons for believing people have brains, they are basing their beliefs off of evidence... what are you basing your belief in God off? It's just what you've been told when you were a child and what makes you feel good now, no investigation involved.

By the way, I'd just like to point out how funny these examples are. They always have some angry professor/teacher/whatever belittling others by putting forward a simplistic atheistic pov... then some kid/dumbass/whatever apparently snaps them with some form of flawed logic. There's alot of them around, I try to take them as a grain of salt, but UnIqUe PrInCeZZ had to go and make it her argument, go and make me think that's the sort of retarded shit that affirms people's faith.

Not everything exists in a physical sense. Sometimes, all we have is faith to guide and reassure us.

That's the message, but it is (as far as we've discovered so far) just plain wrong. Everything we know of that exists, exists in the physical natural world.

No one else can see (with their eyes) our thoughts, though we are positive they are there. No one can see our feelings/emotions or see our pain, though we know it exists.

They don't have to physically see a 'thought' to know it is there, we believe it is there a) because we also have thoughts and b) because we've come up with ways of showing thought activity in the brain.

This isn't my best area of understanding tho, so please help me if you know something about our lack of knowledge here.

 

[davin]

to be fair, unique princess didn't argue that that meant there's a god, just seemed to illustrate that she felt one didn't have to see god to have faith there is one

 

[Not-That-Bright]

She is presenting the atheist argument in a simplistic light (i.e. can you see god?) to me, what the real atheist argument is, is "do you have any evidence of god?"

So when she says "You don't have to see something to believe in it." what she's really saying is "You don't need evidence to believe in something." Unless she really does believe that atheists think because you can't see a god in the sky there is no God...

It's a very small step from saying essentially you don't need any evidence to believe in something, to saying "God exists and we don't need evidence", that's all I'm against there

 

[robo-andie]

That's the message, but it is (as far as we've discovered so far) just plain wrong. Everything we know of that exists, exists in the physical natural world.

They don't have to physically see a 'thought' to know it is there, we believe it is there a) because we also have thoughts and b) because we've come up with ways of showing thought activity in the brain.

Yes, but that is only the effect of a thought, we don't know how thoughts physically exist, we just know they have measurable and visible effects on the human body (ie brain).

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I have never heard of anyone seeing thoughts as matter, nor have I heard that brain activity is not stimulated through thought.