Does God exist? (24 Viewers)

do you believe in god?


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mirakon

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FINALLY

If god is so above us humans in status, why does he require acknowledgement for his creation from us "servants" when he can do anything with ease?
Also how are we servants? If he is so mighty he wouldn't need servants.


That is my unique way on proving god is a myth.

This is my definition of religion...
"Religion is a thought made by an intelligent being (humans) to satisfy the curiosity [developed by this intelligence] of the unexplainable questions in life"


If you are pro-religion, please feel free to discuss any points I have raised. I assure you; you're logic does have a "down-to-earth" answer. No pun intended... maybe a little intended
I acknowledge the fact that you have already considered your argument and have presented with with thoughtfullness. Although it seems quite accurate however, I do see one problem with it. In fact it is a general question which I ask:

Can logic be used to disprove God? Assuming he exists, God would be omnipotent by definition and the sole creator of Logic itself, meaning he does not have to abide by the laws of logic.

This isn't really a point, merely a question. Do you agree?
 

SeCKSiiMiNh

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I acknowledge the fact that you have already considered your argument and have presented with with thoughtfullness. Although it seems quite accurate however, I do see one problem with it. In fact it is a general question which I ask:

Can logic be used to disprove God? Assuming he exists, God would be omnipotent by definition and the sole creator of Logic itself, meaning he does not have to abide by the laws of logic.

This isn't really a point, merely a question. Do you agree?
Since when are law creators not bound by the laws they make?
 

englishwiz17

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I acknowledge the fact that you have already considered your argument and have presented with with thoughtfullness. Although it seems quite accurate however, I do see one problem with it. In fact it is a general question which I ask:

Can logic be used to disprove God? Assuming he exists, God would be omnipotent by definition and the sole creator of Logic itself, meaning he does not have to abide by the laws of logic.

This isn't really a point, merely a question. Do you agree?

Perhaps... that point even has me baffled to be honest, and makes believing in a higher being seem like the easiest way.

Logic and thought are traits of a "soul", it makes us who we are as individuals and seperates eachother.
To believe that we have a soul is to think that there is an intangible spirit that occupies our bodies seperate from our physical build-up.
Personally I am not convinced that the concept of a soul is real.

So I ask, does god possess a soul? Is he a physical, tangible being? I ask this since he claims to possesses the capabilities of love over all of us; therefore is affected by emotion.

However I guess you could answer this question with the consideration you asked me, "god invented the soul, therefore he is an exemption from his creation"
But then again why do you and the bible refer to God as "he"? Surely that proves that god is an actual being with a sexuality, or is it just a way of refering to him?

This point is very interesting and has given me a headache, and my response may have sounded better bouncing around the walls of my head.
You have done a lot better than my old religion teacher in year 10.
 

mirakon

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Perhaps... that point even has me baffled to be honest, and makes believing in a higher being seem like the easiest way.

Logic and thought are traits of a "soul", it makes us who we are as individuals and seperates eachother.
To believe that we have a soul is to think that there is an intangible spirit that occupies our bodies seperate from our physical build-up.
Personally I am not convinced that the concept of a soul is real.

So I ask, does god possess a soul? Is he a physical, tangible being? I ask this since he claims to possesses the capabilities of love over all of us; therefore is affected by emotion.

However I guess you could answer this question with the consideration you asked me, "god invented the soul, therefore he is an exemption from his creation"
But then again why do you and the bible refer to God as "he"? Surely that proves that god is an actual being with a sexuality, or is it just a way of refering to him?

This point is very interesting and has given me a headache, and my response may have sounded better bouncing around the walls of my head.
You have done a lot better than my old religion teacher in year 10.
My understanding is that 'He' is just way of referencing, rather than a direct implication of sexuality.

Since when are law creators not bound by the laws they make?
As they created these laws they must existed prior to it, meaning that at some point they were external to it. The fact is that therefore, assuming God exists, that he still may have the capacity to be external to logic. As a result such logical reasoning cannot provide a definitive proof in my understanding as logic comes after God and God is external to logic.

Nevertheless Secksiiminh, it is good to finally see some intelligent posters on BoS, they are surprisingly few in number, but seem to be in relatively high proportion in this thread judging from previous posts.
 

Iron

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Death was not God’s doing, he takes no pleasure in the extinction of the living. To be – for this he created all; the world’s created things have health in them, in them no fatal poison can be found, and Hades holds no power on earth; for virtue is undying.
 

Iron

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As by your will you first strayed away from God, so now turn back and search for him ten times as hard; for as he brought down those disasters on you, so will he rescue you and give you eternal joy.
 

Iron

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Amature.
All men have a conscience which points to God - nay, it is a piece of the Kingdom of God within them. If they ignore this any act against the natural law engraved upon their hearts, then they are wicked. If they remain in friendship with God and remain good people, then we do not insist that they are doomed to eternal damnation. Only God knows their real status, but we point to purgatory as the likely destination.
 

SylviaB

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do you have a friendship with god iron

like, when you talk to him does he talk back

and i mean actually talk back, not like oh look its a rainbow god loves me
 

Cazic

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Amature.
All men have a conscience which points to God - nay, it is a piece of the Kingdom of God within them. If they ignore this any act against the natural law engraved upon their hearts, then they are wicked. If they remain in friendship with God and remain good people, then we do not insist that they are doomed to eternal damnation. Only God knows their real status, but we point to purgatory as the likely destination.
We? Who is this "we" that insists for or against eternal damnation as if such insistence matters?
 

Iron

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do you have a friendship with god iron

like, when you talk to him does he talk back

and i mean actually talk back, not like oh look its a rainbow god loves me
Christianity is all about Encounter with Christ. We experience Him thru the Eucharist, thru communion with eachother and thru nature. It's not an insane, vocal conversation (which youre getting at), but rather a quiet whispering of presence in the wind and everyday life. It is something, the 'soul' if you like, that alerts us to not only God's existence, but also His mercy, compassion and love for us, His children. Thru constant, humble prayer and meditation we are kept alive to the reality of this presence and thereby guided in our actions and strengthened on our walk, our Pilgrimage, thru the valley of the shadow of death.
We fear no evil for He is with us.
 

trickx

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Christianity is all about Encounter with Christ. We experience Him thru the Eucharist, thru communion with eachother and thru nature. It's not an insane, vocal conversation (which youre getting at), but rather a quiet whispering of presence in the wind and everyday life. It is something, the 'soul' if you like, that alerts us to not only God's existence, but also His mercy, compassion and love for us, His children. Thru constant, humble prayer and meditation we are kept alive to the reality of this presence and thereby guided in our actions and strengthened on our walk, our Pilgrimage, thru the valley of the shadow of death.
We fear no evil for He is with us.
The first half of this description is exactly like a pantheist.

The last half ruins it.
 

ademayd

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tangent much? thread specifically says no referene to religous books. and can we please argue it in terms of: is it logical for there to be a creator or is it not logical
 

Bond/Catalyst

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There's 970 pages here so I dunno if this has been covered before, but what of Aquinas's Quinque Viae? It's true that the whole world has been going on about this for thousands of years and that it is unlikely that on a HSC forum full of hormone charged teenagers and young adults we're gonna get an answer about whether or not God exists, so instead of concocting our own wonderful theories why not take a look at those people who are a just a tad smarter than we all are. :uhhuh:



Any religious person, nay, any theist may "feel" the prescence of God and see something that for themself is enough proof. Personally, the only proof I require rests somewhere along the whole mysterious, complex and perfect structure/being of the world, nature and Christ/God train of thought, which you atheists dont care for, so how about a rebuttal to some ontological arguments from Thomas Aquinas, one of the greatest teachers and doctors of the church. You guys want ontological argument, so go, disprove the Quinque Viae till your heart's content.

  • The Argument of the Unmoved Mover
  • The Argument of the First Cause
  • The Argument from Contingency
  • The Argument from Degree
  • The Teleological Argument
Thomas Aquinas, "The Five Ways"—Introduction: The Aristotelian Background and even Quinque viae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia are interesting.

I have two pillars of my faith. One is my own personal relationship and communion with God which I dont expect atheists to understand, and tahts OK. The other is the work, dogma and teaching of the Church over many centuries, by doctors, Popes and theologians and the like who are more intelligent and perhaps more rational (one might think that Ironic, but still) than I will ever be in interpreting the Word of God.

Make of this as you wish.

Oh and if there was no God, then there would be no atheists hahaha
 
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G4_SuperTeam

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wouldnt it make more sense to try and accept people and their beliefs instead of insulting them because they dont share ur particular beliefs??

The fact remains, that in this day and age, we can neither prove nor disprove the existence of god. as far as this discussion goes, its like asking which came first, the chicken or the egg.
 

morning storm

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The fact remains, that in this day and age, we can neither prove nor disprove the existence of god. as far as this discussion goes, its like asking which came first, the chicken or the egg.
This in general is a very simple and ultimately naive thought process. No such fact remains at all.

Firstly you perpetrate perhaps the most common of sins in this debate bandying about with the idea 'that neither side can be definitively proven or disproven'. When attempting to discern the truth in any area, it is up to the group or person suggesting the theory to provide evidence for its feasibillity. In failure of this basic duty, it is the theorists who have failed to sufficiently prove their point, and not the group of 'sceptics'.

The onus to prove the existence OR non existence of God rests purely on religion and not atheism. This is because it is religion that is making the claim.

In any other realm of thinking this becomes very clear. When a man asks "did you know every person on earth has an invisible leprechaun that rides around on their shoulder all day," we reject his idea because there is no evidence for such a claim. In this scenario the man who believes in the invisible leprechaun is outted as a lunatic, and no such confusion or ambiguity exists because we innately understand that leprechauns are imaginary.

This is contrasted to the question of the existence of God, which possesses a certain default credibility due to both the logevity of the debate and most of all its alleged 'transcendent and unquantifiable' nature, (which allows the bypassing of the same reason and logic that makes us declare the leprechaun man crazy.)

Invisible leprechauns do not exist and everybody readily and fully accepts this despite the fact we cannot prove it to be untrue.

That's not even addressing the fact that science and atheism can also disprove God's existence through its proposition of a hugely more viable alternative approach, with rules of nature and physics that are rigorous, reliable and testable. All those things which were once too complicated; that necessitated the existence of a God to explain, are becoming quantified and understood.

It then becomes interesting to wonder if we will ever move so far along this path of understanding, that we will reach a point where the question of God's existence is collectively viewed through the same lens through which we see leprechauns.
 
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SeCKSiiMiNh

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wouldnt it make more sense to try and accept people and their beliefs instead of insulting them because they dont share ur particular beliefs??

The fact remains, that in this day and age, we can neither prove nor disprove the existence of god. as far as this discussion goes, its like asking which came first, the chicken or the egg.
There is proof on the chicken and egg thing mate. CNN.com - Chicken andeggdebate unscrambled - May 26, 2006
 

Bond/Catalyst

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Nice how the thread is called "Does God Exist" and there I go trying to be faithful to the thread and actually propse an argument or five and it is nicely ignored. Mad thread.
 

theism

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wow how did i miss this thread.

Okay guys,
i as the resident apologetic theist, will try to answer your serious and mature questions that you have about the existence of God, Christianity or Jesus Christ.
 

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