Does God exist? (18 Viewers)

[Sy123]

no offence but is this like a 'fact' and where does it say. Honestly I am trying to be more religiously involved but need stuff cleared up

one or 2 sentences should do

Well this is what philosophers and theologians mean by 'God', it is the 'definition' you can say.

This is the problem. Believers in God keep asserting that God is simply outside of time and space and does not need a cause without actually proving that God has these attributes.

I have already proven that God has these attributes

Why does the Big Bang need a cause and why does god not need a cause?

Since the causal premise is that everything that begins to exist has a cause.
God did not begin to exist and thus does not have a cause
The universe began to exist with the Big Bang, and thus has a cause

All theists do is define some being to have conditions external to time and say "herp derp he doesn't have to fit logic because we define him not to fit into the rules".

What an ignorant statement, you have completlely sidestepped everything the argument says and you decide to focus on a nuanced statement that I have already refuted

Why does god not have to fit the same rules as the big bang? Why does the big bang need a cause?

Addressed above

 

[Stygian]

You proved that the universe had a cause, not the Big Bang. Try again.

 

[Queenroot]

hmmm I should but I am curious to whether or not s/he exists

ftfy

Well if god exists then when you die tell s/he to re-create the universe because s/he did a shit job of giving everyone "free will" and now the world is facked

 

[Stygian]

Please refute my cosmic hooker Sy123.

 

[Sy123]

Why should we seek truth instead of carnal desire? Carnal desire is fantastic.

If you don't want to seek truth then by definition you are a dumbass and thus I have no desire in talking with you

So this god of yours doesn't get affected by what we do why does he insist on burning us for eternity if we don't do what he wants, especially since if he exists he has seales our fate without any free will of our own to change it.

Who said we don't have free-will?

Oh so no other god can exist because they don't fit your definition of a god. K den.

That's not what I said

 

[Sy123]

You proved that the universe had a cause, not the Big Bang. Try again.

The Big Bang is part of the Universe, the Big Bank is an event that marked the beginning of the Universe

Please refute my cosmic hooker Sy123.

Hookers aren't immaterial, nor are they timeless, spaceless, nor do they possess perfect Knowledge and Power

 

[Stygian]

If you don't want to seek truth then by definition you are a dumbass and thus I have no desire in talking with you



Who said we don't have free-will?



That's not what I said

Oh wow, way to rage hard. Just because I prefer to enjoy my life instead of seeking irrelevant hypothetical knowledge of the universe that changes nothing about the world once I find out, that doesn't make me a dumbass. If anyone is a dumbass it's someone so dependent on what a hypothetical being tells them to do that their entire purpose in life is not to have any capacity for themselves to do what they want and instead live it doing what some imaginary being wants them to do.

I said that if god knows what our fate is we have no free will to change it.

And it is what you implied when you said those are not "actual" gods.

 

[seventhroot]

Well this is what philosophers and theologians mean by 'God', it is the 'definition' you can say.

is there a list I can find where these philosophers and theologians said stuff?

 

[Stygian]

The Big Bang is part of the Universe, the Big Bank is an event that marked the beginning of the Universe



Hookers aren't immaterial, nor are they timeless, spaceless, nor do they possess perfect Knowledge and Power

Do you even understand science? Read up on the concept of singularity and the Big Bang.

You have provided no reason as to why the Big Bang or the universe needs a cause.

Why can't a cosmic hooker have perfect knowledge and power? That is part of the definition of the cosmic hooker after all. And the cosmic hooker is immaterial, it has immaterial cosmic sex that you cannot understand because you live in the physical realm.

 

[iBibah]

So for a homosexual person, "indulging" in their sexuality with which they were born is a sin.

So if you're born gay, you have to be truly sorry for the "sin" that God gives you at birth in order to be forgiven? What kind of crazy logic is that?

Bro did you even read what I said?

First of all, anyone who has a sexual fantasy over anyone else (homo or not) is considered to be sinning. Yes its that's "crazy".

Secondly, I never said you be sorry for being homosexual or for having temptations to sin. I said you have to be sorry for actual sins.

Basically a sin has to come as a direct result of one's free will, so for someone who is homosexual or short-tempered (which can lead to excessive violence) for example, the fact they're homosexual or short-fused doesn't make them a sinner. It's if they act on that temptation.

i.e if i'm a married (or unmarried in fact) man, and I see another women who I think is hot. And I start fantasising about her and indulging in those thoughts, im sinning. Same if I were to actually have sexual relations with her. But if i saw a hot girl, and while sexual thoughts sneaked into my head I attempted to fight them and not indulge in them, then i'm not sinning.

 

[Sy123]

is there a list I can find where these philosophers and theologians said stuff?

Though I think he has some weird and untenable views, I think William Lane Craig does a good job of explaining these things to a layman, he has a lot of things on youtube and the sort

 

[Sy123]

is there a list I can find where these philosophers and theologians said stuff?

Though I think he has some weird and untenable views, I think William Lane Craig does a good job of explaining these things to a layman, he has a lot of things on youtube and the sort

 

[Sy123]

I am continuing to respond to you because I thought that you could actually learn something, but instead you have proven yourself to be an ignoramous

Oh wow, way to rage hard. Just because I prefer to enjoy my life instead of seeking irrelevant hypothetical knowledge of the universe that changes nothing about the world once I find out, that doesn't make me a dumbass.

Yes it is dumbass

If anyone is a dumbass it's someone so dependent on what a hypothetical being tells them to do that their entire purpose in life is not to have any capacity for themselves to do what they want and instead live it doing what some imaginary being wants them to do.

Its not imaginary, its the reality

I said that if god knows what our fate is we have no free will to change it.

There is no connection between God's foreknowledge and with free will

And it is what you implied when you said those are not "actual" gods.

No it is not implied

If you want to say that there are many finite gods, then that is refuted by already saying that we have proved that there is only 1 MGB that exists, so if your ideology, whether you talk about gods or God with whatever definition you prefer, if it does not have a single MGB as we have proven it, then that ideology is false

Do you even understand science? Read up on the concept of singularity and the Big Bang.

I know about it much more than you do

You have provided no reason as to why the Big Bang or the universe needs a cause.

Everything that begins to exist has a cause

Why can't a cosmic hooker have perfect knowledge and power? That is part of the definition of the cosmic hooker after all. And the cosmic hooker is immaterial, it has immaterial cosmic sex that you cannot understand because you live in the physical realm.

Since hookers don't have perfect knowledge and power? Putting the word cosmic in front of it does not qualify anything

 

[Stygian]

Prove that our purpose is to find truth instead of being happy and doing what we want.

If god is a reality how come you haven't proved god is a reality yet lol.

Actually there is, if god knows we have a particular fate that means that we will inevitably reach that fate meaning we don't have free will to change that.

And you obviously don't because your argument for why the big bang has a cause and god doesn't is "god is defined as not having a cause because we can attach random definitions to things and that somehow shows they actually do exist" and "the big bang needs a cause because I say so". Prove that the big bang needs a cause, all you are saying is that it needs one because it exists. Why does it need a cause if it was the start of everything? Why can't it be this first cause that you have just said god is?

Exactly, and attaching the word god to a definition doesn't qualify it either. Touche.

 

[Sy123]

Prove that our purpose is to find truth instead of being happy and doing what we want.

1 - Islamic conception of God exists
2 - In Islam our purpose is to find truth
3 - Therefore our purpose is to find truth

Which just shows how what you are trying to press on to is really a side point, because I'm not going to try and prove (1) in this thread

If god is a reality how come you haven't proved god is a reality yet lol.

I have actually lol.

Actually there is, if god knows we have a particular fate that means that we will inevitably reach that fate meaning we don't have free will to change that.

Why does having the will to change God's knowledge imply free will?
Considering you made an embarrassing blunder by talking about how God began to exist, I suggest you do more research before posting further, before exposing more funniness

And you obviously don't because your argument for why the big bang has a cause and god doesn't is "god is defined as not having a cause because we can attach random definitions to things and that somehow shows they actually do exist" and "the big bang needs a cause because I say so". Prove that the big bang needs a cause, all you are saying is that it needs one because it exists. Why does it need a cause if it was the start of everything? Why can't it be this first cause that you have just said god is?

Honestly, are you just stupid or are you playing a joke on me?

I have repeatedly talked about this

Read my posts, please

Exactly, and attaching the word god to a definition doesn't qualify it either. Touche.

I mean that saying cosmic hooker does not make a hooker not a hooker
You are talking with no meaning

 

[Stygian]

No you haven't proven god exists at all and your refusal to show how the Islamic god in particular exists means that you can't say that truth is the purpose of our existence. Nor have you at any point shown that we need some objective purpose in our existence.

And again, that is just an elaborate way of avoiding the point, the point being that if god exists and god knows our fate that means a pre-determined destiny exists which contradicts our ability to have the free will to change it.

Your talk about this has consisted of you just repeating the statement that the big bang needs a cause because it happened without actually at any point showing why. Repeating your statement as fact without showing it is not in any way proving it.

I am talking with meaning, by definition the cosmic hooker is different from the hookers we know of on earth. You can't argue with that because that's the definition.

Please try to disprove the cosmic hooker for me o wise one.

 

[Stygian]

Anyway, I'm gonna give up on you because all you do is go around in circles and then amusingly act like you know everything because people don't engage you in lengthy debate. Just a heads up for you, it's not that you're too smart for them, it's that you're too narrow-minded, elitist and silly to engage in any long discussion and there is no hope in actually getting anywhere in any conversation with you involving talking about philosophy or an issue.

 

[neo o]

You're accusing someone of going around in circles in a single issue thread that's almost ten years old.

 

[jdennis]

First of all, anyone who has a sexual fantasy over anyone else (homo or not) is considered to be sinning. Yes its that's "crazy".

I'm starting to think George Orwell plagiarised 1984 out of the Bible.

Why is it that human nature seems to be defined as sin (ie having sexual fantasies)? What kind of God creates people to instinctively behave in a way that he says is sinful?

 

[Stygian]

You're accusing someone of going around in circles in a single issue thread that's almost ten years old.

This is also true.