Does God Exist? (1 Viewer)

[somechick]

im not christain........which is why it annoys me when someone says "the bible is full of contradictions therefore there is no god".....

Exactly. Many people are basing their arguements on the bible, esp. those who are against belief. Which sucks because, while they keep telling us to take philosophy classes for our intellectual and 'spiritual well-being', they have no clue about Islam.

While some others are integrating their personal issues into this arguement, esp noel gallagher who keeps on using profanities at me as a way to 'rationally' argue his point. Keep it up.

 

[GirlGoneMad]

yes ditto. just because someone knows what you are going to do doesn't mean that they make you do it. think of it this way: God knew that we were going to sin so He sent his Son, Jesus Christ, to die for us.

Jesus sent his son after man had sinned. He made the decision to send his son after man had sinned.

 

[katie_tully]

Jesus sent his son after man had sinned. He made the decision to send his son after man had sinned.

He waited long enough to send his son.

 

[soha]

What the..
This whole time I thought you were a psychotic Christian.... I take back anything I've said to you...
In that case... what's the difference between being a Muslim and a Christian? And why do the two religions have so much animosity towards each other, (a la middle east)

muslims dont believe that jesus is god or gods son
we dont believe he was crucified either
to us he is a prophet and messenegr of god
he was sent to spread the word of islam
hm..so many differences
i dunno where to start
the best way is to read the bible and read the koran
or read up about their beliefs and what not
coz theres heaps

 

[katie_tully]

muslims dont believe that jesus is god or gods son
we dont believe he was crucified either
to us he is a prophet and messenegr of god
he was sent to spread the word of islam
hm..so many differences

Muslim sounds so less radical.
There's no, Jesus born by virgin to save mankind. The whole prophet/messenger of god, to me, is a touch more believable.

Is it frustrating sharing the same god with nutcases?

 

[waterfowl]

we dont believe he was crucified either

Why not? That's historical fact!

 

[soha]

Muslim sounds so less radical.
There's no, Jesus born by virgin to save mankind. The whole prophet/messenger of god, to me, is a touch more believable.

Is it frustrating sharing the same god with nutcases?

well..i dont know..coz christianity confuses me ina sense that one minute jesus is god
then hes gods son?
and holy spirit and ghost?
and i will never understand
but no..coz our god is not like their god..let me explain how we perceive Allah(arabic word for god)
whatever ever you imagine in ur mind god is differnet from it
he exist without a place..god is everywhere..but nowhere
he has no human attributes
no mother or wife..no family
he is the creater..the benefacter..the highest ..the almighty ruler etc i can go on

we believe that jesus peace be upon him was borm by virgin mary
but thats the proof that hes a prophet and messenger..
that his birth was special and a miracle by God
its rather simple..not difficult to comprehend when u put the pieces of the puzzles together

 

[somechick]

I did not for one second assume that shit you said.

*we are like the animals and plants we live with on earth. We're not.

WE ARE ANIMALS! The human race derives from primitive apes and shit, from 10s of thousands of years ago. So don't give me that shit.

*Can you possibly accept that one day you, whatever your real name is, will die just like a plant in your garden and thats it?

Yes I can accept that one day I will die and my body will be put in a coffin, I'll have makeup put on and some nice clothes put on and lowered into a grave, and rot, and have bugs eat me away. And that will be it.

However, my name will live on, everybody's name lives on, even your dear old Jebus. My name will live on for years, my memory will last as long as my family and friends last.

*All the things you've felt in your lifetime mean nothing? Your family means nothing?

That, to me, is complete and utter crap. All the things I've felt in my lifetime DOES and WILL MEAN SOMETHING. When I have kids, when my kids have kids, everything I feel and think will be reflected in them. I will be reflected in them, it's called genes. I don't need a god or religion to have meaning. My family means a fuckload to me, we have traditions, birthdays, anniversaries etc, we spend them together under the happiness of our family, not under God, and it means something to us. my family doesn't need a God or bogus religious beliefs to feel good about ourselves, or to feel safe, or whatever believing in a God does for you.

I can get thru life without believing that something is working on this world. I can love my family and friends without a God. I can firmly believe that when I die, people will remember me and I won't just die like some plant in the garden, my memory will live on, my family will go on meaning something because my family will keep growing because of me, and my role in my family.

1. lol, that post wasnt even directed at you so dont get so firey. go back to the page and see who i qouted.
2. I never said you cannot do all that stuff without belief. Please re-read.
3. We are not EXACTLY like animals. But I can see some people displaying that kind of character.
4. If you think that your that unimportant, insignificant as to think of your afterlife that way, go for your life (?) . What were you before you were born?
Clearly you're only here to do some bible bashing, and not open your ears so go on.

 

[soha]

Why not? That's historical fact!

no
he wanst
someone was in his place yes
but it was not jesus..
we believe he was raised to the second level of heaven
and on the last dinner the youngest of the 12 took his palce and god shanged his features to make him look like jesus
because you cannot kill a prophet and messenger of god
plus you cannot kill a god
or a son of god
seriously
and you cna not be a god..if ur human..and u eat and shit and cry and feel pain..and etc
what kind of god is that?

 

[katie_tully]

well..i dont know..coz christianity confuses me ina sense that one minute jesus is god
then hes gods son?
and holy spirit and ghost?
and i will never understand
but no..coz our god is not like their god..let me explain how we perceive Allah(arabic word for god)
whatever ever you imagine in ur mind god is differnet from it
he exist without a place..god is everywhere..but nowhere
he has no human attributes
no mother or wife..no family
he is the creater..the benefacter..the highest ..the almighty ruler etc i can go on

we believe that jesus peace be upon him was borm by virgin mary
but thats the proof that hes a prophet and messenger..
that his birth was special and a miracle by God
its rather simple..not difficult to comprehend when u put the pieces of the puzzles together

I don't buy any of it, but I find it so much more credible than Christianity.

Each to their own.

 

[soha]

Why not? That's historical fact!

no
he wanst
someone was in his place yes
but it was not jesus..
we believe he was raised to the second level of heaven
and on the last dinner the youngest of the 12 took his palce and god changed his features to make him look like jesus
because you cannot kill a prophet and messenger of god
plus you cannot kill a god
or a son of god
seriously
and you can not be a god..if ur human..and u eat and shit and cry and feel pain..and etc
what kind of god is that?...

 

[soha]

I don't buy any of it, but I find it so much more credible than Christianity.

Each to their own.

lo...u dont have to buy it
its just our beliefs
feel free to ask any questions
even tho im muslim and happily muslim
i like to ask questions about other religons
just to know..its always good to have that extra knowledge

 

[waterfowl]

plus you cannot kill a god
or a son of god
seriously
and you cna not be a god..if ur human..and u eat and shit and cry and feel pain..and etc
what kind of god is that?

No you can't kill Jesus, thats why he rose again.

""The teaching of the Bible concerning the Trinity might be summarized thus. God is a Tri-unity, with each Person of the Godhead equally and fully and eternally God. Each is necessary, and each is distinct, and yet all are one. The three Persons appear in a logical, causal order. The Father is the unseen, omnipresent Source of all being, revealed in and by the Son, experienced in and by the Holy Spirit. The Son proceeds from the Father, and the Spirit from the Son. With reference to God's creation, the Father is the Thought behind it, the Son is the Word calling it forth, and the Spirit is the Deed making it a reality.


We "see" God and His great salvation in the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, then "experience" their reality by faith, through the indwelling presence of His Holy Spirit.

Though these relationships seem paradoxical, and to some completely impossible, they are profoundly realistic, and their truth is ingrained deep in man's nature. Thus, men have always sensed first the truth that God must be "out there," everywhere present and the First Cause of all things, but they have corrupted this intuitive knowledge of the Father into pantheism and ultimately into naturalism."""

 

[soha]

no i will never accept and comprehend it
well thats our teachings and beliefs
im not looking for anwers im just telling you what we as muslims believe
i have had many ppl try and explain trinity to me
and it will never make sense
im not stupid
i just dont accept it..but you might
i dunno..some people understand it
i dont..

 

[Kierkegaard]

If god exists, why does he exist necessarily? There are alot of things on earth that exist, albiet not necessarily.
It is possible god exists. It is also possible he doesn't exist.
If he exists necessarily, then he exists. But what's to prove he exists, and what's to prove that his existance is necessary?
Point 4 cancels out point 9 and 10.

1) Perfection is not contingent, its existence is necessary.
2) You misunderstand. The axiom can only be rejected by asserting that it is impossible for God to exist.
3) Well, the 10 lines of reasoning prove that he exists quite adequately (that's the whole point of it). If God exists, God exists necessarily is based on the assumption that if God exists, God is the creator ex nihilo and embodies existence and truth in himself. It comes from possible world semantics, which I shan't go into here.
4) Point 4 does not cancel out points 9 and 10. Point 4 comes from the most basic rule of logic: the rule of exculded middle. Either A is true or A is false. It only asserts 'if's.

 

[katie_tully]

1) Perfection is not contingent, its existence is necessary.
2) You misunderstand. The axiom can only be rejected by asserting that it is impossible for God to exist.
3) Well, the 10 lines of reasoning prove that he exists quite adequately (that's teh whole point of it).
4) Point 4 does not cancel out points 9 and 10. Point 4 comes from the most basic rule of logic: the rule of exculded middle. Either A is true or A is false. It only asserts 'if's.

It's too hot to argue, and I have redskin stuck in my teeth.

I'll just leave it with
Either A is true, or A is false. As there is no definate answer, A is floating in limbo until further notice.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

That thing only depends on wether god exists necessarily...

 

[katie_tully]

That thing only depends on wether god exists necessarily...

Which can only work if God exists. In which case, the existance cannot be proven or disproven, making the assumption that god is or is not necessary, invalid.

 

[Kierkegaard]

...and whether it's possible that God exists. They're the major axioms of the argument. As I said, teh reasoning is entirely sound, it can't be flawed. The only way to reject the argument is to reject one or more of the axioms. It doesn't take much for an atheist to reject the argument, there's a neat way of doing so, but I wont give away any trade secrets. I'll let someone else try their hand at logically rejecting the argument.

 

[Kierkegaard]

katie_tully is on the right track. An atheist would reject the conclusion that God exists and because of this the atheist would reject the premise that it is possible that God exists (proposition 2). So, by rejecting the conclusion, we must logically reject one of the premises, which makes the coclusion invalid. It does beg the question, but it's strong enough an argument to cast a great deal of skepticism over the validity of the conclusion. For the atheist, this rejection is conclusive and for the theist, it casts some doubt on the conclusion of the modal ontological argument.