Does God Exist? (1 Viewer)

[MoonlightSonata]

yes ok this is getting annoying if u believe that u were abducted for aliens i have no say on the matter- every1s perceptions on life and god is their own...do u not understand faith is embedded in everybody individually?? its not a collective thing that requires a vote and discussion as u would like to believe

u believe what u want- mock faith all you want it wont change the fact i have my own perceptions about faith

This thread is not about giving an empty statement about what you believe. It is about WHY you believe something. All you have said, over and over, is that you believe there is a God. You have not given ANY reasons why God exists.

and agnostocosm isnt about having no proof btw its more to do with the confusion of organised religions and the "right path" for every individual. things do not come into existence because you prove them because for me being agnostic is about having faith in something beyond me and everything and believing that there is purpose. being agnostic is not a strict way to have beliefs- its what you make of it around all the confusion

I'm sorry but you are mistaken. From Dictionary.com:

ag·nos·ti·cism

1. The doctrine that certainty about first principles or absolute truth is unattainable and that only perceptual phenomena are objects of exact knowledge.

2. The belief that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist.

why should i prove what u consider "undeniable" proof to show you god exists- no one can, but that doesnt mean he doesnt exist

I am not saying God doesn't exist! I am saying that there are no valid reasons or evidence for you or anyone to believe that God DOES exist.

it means if u have faith in life and that it has meaning and not just random without meaning- i believe we live for a reason- for oursleves and others to work with and sometimes against each other

Well thats wonderful but that does not in any way show that there is a God.

 

[jm1234567890]

You have to draw the line somewhere...

There are somethings that simply cannot be prooved false,
such as me saying that there's a monkey behind you that you cant see, hear, or sense...
or that I am your god but i am too powerful for you to comprehend it,
or that your a brain in a glass jar being fed complex information tricking you into thinking this is reality....

The line that should be drawn is commonsense..

If you restict your self with commonsence you are limiting your creativity....

if people stuck to common sence many great scientific discoveries wouldn't have been made.

such as high temperature super conductors, does it make sence to you the ceramics would
conduct with no resistance when cooled to low temperatures?
The theory behind this discovery hasn't been proved yet. In fact, the discovery disproved
many past theories.

 

[Dougie]

So you believe you could be the messiah and just not know it yet?

sure, u could be too.
and there is no way anyone can prove that there is a God. It's a belief, and once you pass that problem, things get a little easier.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I only restrict myself to commonsense when dealing with issues such as these...
I'm a fairly creative person, i write/play music... i make art... philosophy helps me in that

There is no reason for me to think that I am god... doing it just wouldn't make sense, i'm not going to deny that people have the belief... but i'm perplexed as to if they have asked all these questions... why?
I see someone comming to the conclusion that there is a christian, muslim, etc god as the same as someone comming to the conclusion that they can jump over the moon, and you seem to agree.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

sure, u could be too.
and there is no way anyone can prove that there is a God. It's a belief, and once you pass that problem, things get a little easier.

So there is no way for anyone to prove that there is a God? Well this now means that anyone believing in God is doing so without valid grounds.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I'm getting that idea from dougie and jm, i think they're simply trying to tell us in a nice way to let people believe what they wanna....

I just want to establish from them, do they agree that a persons belief that they can jump over the moon is as justified as a belief in jesus? If so i will be happy.

 

[thejosiekiller]

So you believe you could be the messiah and just not know it yet?

can you believe that there is no spoon- go on all you want about limitless possibilites, please join the discussion u started.

and for the last time u have to accept i am not making empty statements- these are my beliefs, i have stated why i believe he exists- it is you who cannot accpept or understand them

and if you feel u need to look up a dictionary to find ur belief thats pathetic in my opinion- as i said that was my perception of agnosticism

"I am not saying God doesn't exist! I am saying that there are no valid reasons or evidence for you or anyone to believe that God DOES exist." i have been sayin the same thing except that the opposite- how can u say that a lack of prrof does nor prove he exists or not? it ur own opinion on the matter

"Well thats wonderful but that does not in any way show that there is a God." its my perception og life- not my reasoning. stop analysing every little thing and taking them out of context because for some reaosn u have a problem with my beliefs- u r just as bad as ppl who discriminate islam ppl calling them fundamentalists and terrorists for not being able to accept they have their beliefs and we have to accpet them as long as they do not interfere with our lives immediately

 

[jm1234567890]

I see someone comming to the conclusion that there is a christian, muslim, etc god as the same as someone comming to the conclusion that they can jump over the moon, and you seem to agree.

Why not? we may be able to jump over the moon in the future....

and i have said you choose to believe in commonsence. Well, that is your belief
i'm not going to challenge it. How is believing in commonsence different to
believing in god.

the only difference between the two is that one is more widely accepted.

 

[jm1234567890]

Anyway, the topic is the existance of god not the belief in god.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

can you believe that there is no spoon- go on all you want about limitless possibilites, please join the discussion u started.

You are ignoring our examples by saying they have no relevance, when they clearly do, and the fact you keep ingnoring them lends me to believe they are having a particularly damaging effect on your argument.

and for the last time u have to accept i am not making empty statements- these are my beliefs, i have stated why i believe he exists- it is you who cannot accpept or understand them

If you make a claim without backing it up, it is an empty statement. There are no two ways about this. You cannot possibly expect people to believe hugely controversial things without any evidence or reason. All you keep saying is that "these are my beliefs," but no, you have not stated why you believe God exists. Can you show me where you've done this?

and if you feel u need to look up a dictionary to find ur belief thats pathetic in my opinion- as i said that was my perception of agnosticism

So now you want to argue against the dictionary about the definition of agnosticism? You were clearly wrong in your perception of what agnosticism is, face up to it.

"I am not saying God doesn't exist! I am saying that there are no valid reasons or evidence for you or anyone to believe that God DOES exist." i have been sayin the same thing except that the opposite- how can u say that a lack of prrof does nor prove he exists or not? it ur own opinion on the matter

How can I say a lack of proof does not prove something? You might want to rethink that one

"Well thats wonderful but that does not in any way show that there is a God." its my perception og life- not my reasoning. stop analysing every little thing and taking them out of context because for some reaosn u have a problem with my beliefs- u r just as bad as ppl who discriminate islam ppl calling them fundamentalists and terrorists for not being able to accept they have their beliefs and we have to accpet them as long as they do not interfere with our lives immediately

You need to do a course on logic, or even basic philosophy, or something. I am not dicussing the morality of believing something, I am discussing the validity of that belief - whether it is true or false. All you want to do is say that you believe it, and that we have to be tolerant of that. But we are not saying anything about that, we are simply discussing whether or not God exists.

 

[thejosiekiller]

So there is no way for anyone to prove that there is a God? Well this now means that anyone believing in God is doing so without valid grounds.

if you need valid reasons for everything why do you keep on living ur life if there is no god? why do u do anything? in the end isnt it all meaningless apart from the fact to be a consumer

why cant u accept that god/life is above logic and that its only possible to find answer with faith, whatever it is for u and me and other ppl? u say there is no proof therefore no god, why cant u accpet that no proof means there is a god....its not that hard it called faith- the reasoning cannot be validated on a mass scale (unlike organised religion would believe) stems from my belief in that we were given life and the earth and everything that stems from creation- how can logic be formed after the fact has occured?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Commonsense is not something that you need to believe in to accept..
It is developed through the brains reasoning... we grow up, we learn to distinguish between right and wrong.. truths and lies... illusions and reality.

But i'm glad you established that us jumping over the moon is as realistic ... however i'd probably need more than that to believe in a god, see if we went back 400 years and used our technology to perform heart surgery on someone.. they would consider it a miracle, i believe if we keep at our current rate of advancement, the sort of thing we consider a 'miracle' now will have been solved by science...

I think the only way i could believe in a god would be for god to grant me omnipotence.

 

[jm1234567890]

regarding the people agruing agaisnt the existance of god, what do you consider as a proof to something?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

if you need valid reasons for everything why do you keep on living ur life if there is no god? why do u do anything? in the end isnt it all meaningless apart from the fact to be a consumer

If i have to quote this one more time i'll explode...

"Have you ever built a snowman?" After all, snowmen are ephemeral objects, soon to be melted in the sun. A snowman has no ultimate purpose or goal, and in a few weeks there will be no trace of it's ever existing. We build snowmen because all of us, theists and atheists, live here and now. In the context of our own brief mortal lives, we are able to enjoy this life and gain pleasure from ultimately pointless acts. It is fun to build a snowman, or climb a mountain, or watch the sunset, or go for a long cycle ride in the countryside. The purpose of these things is not "out there" somewhere, waiting to be achieved - the meaning is in what it means to ourselves. I am not overly concerned about some future fifty billion years from now, but I am concerned about the future of humanity here, now and for the generations that follow. That is the context of a mortal life, and that is why I "bother" to live and damn well have fun while I'm doing it.

There is no meaning to life itself. There is no purpose to the universe. You can, however, give life meaning through your actions. Make the world a better place for yourself, your contemporaries and your descendents.

Atheists can, and often do, lead a full and enjoyable life. We know that this is all we get, and all that everybody else gets, so we do the best that we can for ourselves and others. It's no good praying for people dying in a third-world country - there's no God to help them, only people. If people don't do it, nobody else will.

 

[jm1234567890]

if you need valid reasons for everything why do you keep on living ur life if there is no god? why do u do anything? in the end isnt it all meaningless apart from the fact to be a consumer

I disagree, you don't need god to have meaning in your life

 

[MoonlightSonata]

if you need valid reasons for everything why do you keep on living ur life if there is no god? why do u do anything? in the end isnt it all meaningless apart from the fact to be a consumer

There are a million reasons to live. As I've said before, we don't need our identity handed to us on a platter. There is nothing wrong with giving our own lives meaning ourselves.

why cant u accept that god/life is above logic and that its only possible to find answer with faith, whatever it is for u and me and other ppl? u say there is no proof therefore no god, why cant u accpet that no proof means there is a god....its not that hard it called faith- the reasoning cannot be validated on a mass scale (unlike organised religion would believe) stems from my belief in that we were given life and the earth and everything that stems from creation- how can logic be formed after the fact has occured?

Yeah! You're right! Why do we need valid grounds for believing something! Who cares about valid grounds! Let's all invade another country shall we? After all, we don't need valid grounds for everything, do we now?

But seriously, "its only possible to find the answer with faith"? What is faith? Belief without evidence. So its only possible to find answers without evidence. Right. I can think of plently of answers for you that don't have evidence. Why don't you believe in my previous example, the flying goat-god Gorgamel?

If you don't have any reason for believing it, then why would you believe it?

 

[Dougie]

I see someone comming to the conclusion that there is a christian, muslim, etc god as the same as someone comming to the conclusion that they can jump over the moon, and you seem to agree.

no, that's been proven impossible many times, for one by me
but in the future who knows!

So there is no way for anyone to prove that there is a God? Well this now means that anyone believing in God is doing so without valid grounds.

sought of... i believe in God, but has there really been any valid ground to believe in God in the 1st place. Once you start believing, you can prove it with biblical truths, etc. But you can only get to that reasoning if you BELIEVE in the first place

I'm getting that idea from dougie and jm, i think they're simply trying to tell us in a nice way to let people believe what they wanna....

I just want to establish from them, do they agree that a persons belief that they can jump over the moon is as justified as a belief in jesus? If so i will be happy.

Yes, if someone wants to believe something, they shouldn't be cut down for it. a person's belief is maybe the single most important thing to a person, because without it, everthing else they do is undermined.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

regarding the people agruing agaisnt the existance of god, what do you consider as a proof to something?

this question only has ambiguous answers which take away from the point of the discussion... no one i have ever met has provided a solid logical reason how there is a god, why there is a god...etc

That's enough proof for me to believe the chance of there being a god is fairly minimal, even in a universe as large as ours.

 

[thejosiekiller]

You are ignoring our examples by saying they have no relevance, when they clearly do, and the fact you keep ingnoring them lends me to believe they are having a particularly damaging effect on your argument.



If you make a claim without backing it up, it is an empty statement. There are no two ways about this. You cannot possibly expect people to believe hugely controversial things without any evidence or reason. All you keep saying is that "these are my beliefs," but no, you have not stated why you believe God exists. Can you show me where you've done this?



So now you want to argue against the dictionary about the definition of agnosticism? You were clearly wrong in your perception of what agnosticism is, face up to it.



How can I say a lack of proof does not prove something? You might want to rethink that one



You need to do a course on logic, or even basic philosophy, or something. I am not dicussing the morality of believing something, I am discussing the validity of that belief - whether it is true or false. All you want to do is say that you believe it, and that we have to be tolerant of that. But we are not saying anything about that, we are simply discussing whether or not God exists.

im ignoring ur examples like 2+2=4 and the elephants because they are irrlevant- we are talking about life and the existence of god while ur going on about logic and limitless possibilites that are being examined in their own right - instead of relating them to whether god exists

you keep on demanding proof and ill keep on telling u my beliefs dont require proof, u can keep on going but ur not going to convince me otherwise because ur being repetitive and insulting- it wont work

every1 has their own perception about faith- u are not a collective organism, you are an individual and every1 has different ideas and if u feel comfortable by looking up faith in a dictionary and becoming part of a group of people instead of looking into the matter yourself and finding your own beliefs- just because "your" beliefs are an exact replica of another persons make me me think less of your argument and ur desire for proof.

proof is not the essense of everything- if you need to prove that god exists, how would you do it? and would it change your life, would you be afraid for being wrong and that he does exist? cause if i found out he doesnt exist it wouldnt bother me, im satisfied with living my life the way it is and wouldnt change anything

 

[Not-That-Bright]

im ignoring ur examples like 2+2=4 and the elephants because they are irrlevant- we are talking about life and the existence of god while ur going on about logic and limitless possibilites that are being examined in their own right - instead of relating them to whether god exists

How is the example of the elephant irrelevant? You're claiming that because it cannot be proved it's not there, it is there. It is a good example which shows just how ludicris this notion can become...

Everyone might have their own perceptions of faith... but no perception that believes in a god has much of a basis, how many gods have there been? how many people of the past knelt down before priests and prayed to their sun god? laughing at the people before them who prayed to the moon god. Now christians,muslims, etc think of the sun god people, and they laugh as they kneel down before their one true god.