Does God Exist? (2 Viewers)

[joujou_84]

In reply to this thread, and im not sure if it has been said before, but a simple thought here:

If there is no god, why have so many people believed, over so many many years that there is? Are we all being fooled? Im talking alot of people here, more than anyone can comprehend.

i think they said something along the lines of "ppl believe in god coz it makes them feel betta abt themselves etc etc".......and that religious ppl blindly follow religion........

 

[acmilan]

Where are the skeptics, usually they jump at posts such as blue_chameleon's

 

[hmm?]

I knew you were going to make that comment right after i submitted it.
I dont want to sound like a rude person making deragatory remarks and i do apologise if thats what my post sounded like - but if i could just bring to your attention the posts of vezzellda and keen (assertively proclaiming "this is wrong!" etc) written in defence of their religion. I think mine are just a bit more subtle and I dont see you there complaining to them, telling them to tone it down a bit just because they're arguing your case.

Firstly, im not sure if there are any facts to get straight in the 1st place with modern Christianity just because everyone knows how many times its been altered. SO that there is no truth in it.

Some posts ive read on here HAVE referred to Jesus as God and i know some "Christians" who say this also -> so do you still think this is "only a minor discrepancy" , so youre saying now that different Bibles informing Christians to worship different Gods is only a minor discrepancy? Its the basis of a religion..

There you go, do you also feel that differences in the path for afterlife are only minor discrepancies - you were just challenged then by asscookie.
All the different sectors of Christianity have different teachings whether they be minor or major (which some are) is not the issue. Any discrepancy whatsoever deems God, or moreso the religion created by people imperfect and therefore invalid.

God has challenged, for over a Millennium now, for anyone to try and falsify the Quran.

Our modern, hi-tech society is still failing.
And always will.

 

[acmilan]

I knew you were going to make that comment right after i submitted it.
I dont want to sound like a rude person making deragatory remarks and i do apologise if thats what my post sounded like - but if i could just bring to your attention the posts of vezzellda and keen (assertively proclaiming "this is wrong!" etc) written in defence of their religion. I think mine are just a bit more subtle and I dont see you there complaining to them, telling them to tone it down a bit just because they're arguing your case.

Firstly, im not sure if there are any facts to get straight in the 1st place with modern Christianity just because everyone knows how many times its been altered.

Some posts ive read on here HAVE referred to Jesus as God and i know some "Christians" who say this also -> so do you still think this is "only a minor discrepancy" , so youre saying now that different Bibles informing Christians to worship different Gods is only a minor discrepancy? Its the basis of a religion..

There you go, do you also feel that differences in the path for afterlife are only minor discrepancies - you were just challenged then by asscookie.
All the different sectors of Christianity have different teachings whether they be minor or major (which some are) is not the issue. Any discrepancy whatsoever deems God, or moreso the religion created by people imperfect and therefore invalid.

God has challenged, for over a Millennium now, for anyone to try and falsify the Quran.

Our modern, hi-tech society is still failing.
And always will.

Christianity hasnt been altered, the differences between the major denominations are minor. The major reason for Protestantism emerging is because at that time corrupt catholic leaders sold passports to heaven, saying that the purchasers are guaranteed access to it. This is where people like Martin Luther came and said you cannot buy your way into heaven, it is through faith. Obviously Catholics no longer sell these passports and also believe that faith is what gives you heaven. The differences between Christian denominations are minor and it is being recently realised which is the reason for various ecumenical ventures, especially in Australia.

The fact is Jesus is not God and it is not believed by any denomination. In the Bible God himself said that he will send down Jesus, so how can it be believed that Jesus is God when God himself said that he is not. The differences in different Bible versions are minor, for example one difference would be that in one Bible the sentence says "And God said to the people Israel" whilst another may say "And He said to the inhabitants of Israel".The message is still the same.

Trust me, I have studied Christianity and various versions of the Christian bible in depth and the arguements you make are not substantial. The differences in Christian denominations also do not add discrepencies to Christianity but rather allows it to flourish as the most populated religion. That does not mean that Christianity is the only true religion nor that Islam is wrong and through my study i have actually found that it can be seen that other religions are just as valid

 

[mz_purfect]

'The heaven, We have built it with power, Verily We are expanding it' - This too me when I read it doesn't talk about an expanding universe but talks about how each generation of humans are making new young, we are increasing in population, we are expanding in knowledge as we develop, we may even exapand to other planets soon.
This can be interepreted many ways don't think that's the only way - that is just being blind. I can see that it could be about relativity but I mean if you were writing a book to tell people to praise you would you say "Expand in knowledge and power" or "Our universe is expanding"?!?


Keen

I really dont know what you're talking about here because I have never before heard this view. Apparently it sounds as if this is your 'personal' interpretation of this statement. And yes sometimes there can be more than one implication of a single word in the ancient Arabic that the Quran is written in hence you will find that there exists various translations of it. However, within the context God stated this statement, the word "heaven," as stated in the verse I quoted, is used in various places in the Qur'an. It is referring to space and the wider universe. Here again, the word is used with this meaning, stating that the universe "expands." The Arabic word "moosiaaoona" in the term "inna lamoosiaaoona," translated into English as "it is We Who are steadily expanding it", comes from the verb "evsea," meaning "to expand."

Most importantly the word 'heaven' ('wa samaa') in Arabic is clearly denotated as referring to the wider universe not something about expanding generations or moving to other planets. Yes if Allah wants us to praise Him then it befits Him to talk about the expanding universe because it gives us a hint of His sheer magnificence and power. I think it its a perfect reminder to a Muslim of Allah's utter Omnipotence.

 

[Xayma]

Where are the skeptics, usually they jump at posts such as blue_chameleon's

Well purely because it is the same reason people believed the world was flat, people believed that the aether existed etc.

 

[§eraphim]

In reply to this thread, and im not sure if it has been said before, but a simple thought here:

If there is no god, why have so many people believed, over so many many years that there is? Are we all being fooled? Im talking alot of people here, more than anyone can comprehend.

i will accept the challenge to refute this outlandish claim with my feeble rebuttals...haha...rebuttal is a funny word^^

HAHA i think its actually very easy to answer this question

"Are we being fooled?" - I think its more like we are fooling ourselves into thinking that a supreme being exists. As mere mortal beings we are confused and ignorant little things, so we invent things like God and Heaven to overcome our ignorance and confusion---> thats why we have "faith in things unseen". utter bullshit....

"Are we being fooled" - Yes, by other perverted little beings called bishops and priests....the enforcers of organised religion who get their power trip out of telling us ordinary folk what to do.

Ppl are naturally weak. We are social creatures and although individually we like to think of ourselves as independent, reasoning entities, in reality most of us just follow a herd mentality. You really gotta give it to those prophets...they must b really charismatic, and yes, manipulative, storytellers to be able to fool ("convert" in religious speak) the herds of peasants. And then of course there is conversion by the sword, by the stake, etc. Ppl are weak and will believe anything.

2ndly, religion and religious people cause more wars than solve them. And yes, i do believe in the theory of the "clash of civilisations".

I know im a bit off topic but here goes. By Judea-Christian conventions, we normally associate the supreme beings, lets say God, as a peaceful loving kind of guy who created all so that we may multiply and prosper, yaddah yaddah. Why isn't the antithesis of the conventional God, ie, Satan, a valid alternative as a supreme being? Ie, sum1 who creates the world for it to destroy itself, who creates beings like us to destroy ourselves, so that what was once order turns into chaos. This isnt to say that I condone the ritualistic practices in Satanism, but I dont think Satanism should be overlooked as another monotheistic faith

In conclusion, faith exists because people want to believe in it.

 

[KeypadSDM]

If you're not agnostic, I feel sorry for you, I really do.

That being said I have faith God exists, the weak anthropic principle just doesn't do it for me (Why are we here? Because you can ask that question.).

 

[acmilan]

I know im a bit off topic but here goes. By Judea-Christian conventions, we normally associate the supreme beings, lets say God, as a peaceful loving kind of guy who created all so that we may multiply and prosper, yaddah yaddah. Why isn't the antithesis of the conventional God, ie, Satan, a valid alternative as a supreme being? Ie, sum1 who creates the world for it to destroy itself, who creates beings like us to destroy ourselves, so that what was once order turns into chaos. This isnt to say that I condone the ritualistic practices in Satanism, but I dont think Satanism should be overlooked as another monotheistic faith

What you have said here is a common misconception of Satanism as devil woshippers and child-abusers with rituals involving group sex and sacraficing virgins. In fact there is little evidence for this and the misconception arose into the public back in the old days when their sect was considered wicked. A true satanist does not approve of ritual killings. In reality the worhip of natural human desires is what is emphasised, not worshipping Satan. They believe in the Devil, but not in the form in which Christians believe in a God. To them teh Devil is more of a pagan concept, in essence conjured up by man and embodying the parts of human nature that the Christian Church and other religions have tried to suppress - essentially animal instincts sucha s power and sexuality.

I know that was off the topic but your arguement was mainly based on your own opinion, some of which, as the one above, is not totally correct.

 

[malkin86]

yes, Satanism isn't about that.

may I recommend www.religioustolerance.org ? It's very good.

I read in New Scientist once that when investigating the 'paranormal' - eg. power of prayer, that a believer will get more results that skew to what they believe than a nonbeliever. I don't think this is just the believers changing the results, more that they are more likely to count weak positives as positives.

 

[§eraphim]

If you're not agnostic, I feel sorry for you, I really do.

That being said I have faith God exists, the weak anthropic principle just doesn't do it for me (Why are we here? Because you can ask that question.).

actually im buddhist but i dislike christianity for my own personal reasons.

 

[blue_chameleon]

do we all come from nothing, and go to nothing? from ashes to ashes?

Does everything that happens in life get put down as being a coincidence?

 

[Generator]

Hah why is that only a god may bring supposed order? Is it not possible that life may 'find a way' on its own?

 

[blue_chameleon]

In conclusion, faith exists because people want to believe in it.

Er...sorry buddy but you're mistaken.

Faith is created from doings that can not be put down to coincidence. For example, a simple guy was in a shopping mall one day and he says "God if you are real, make somebody stand on their head over near that coke machine!" A follower then hears from God "go and stand on your head over near that coke machine", so they do. Do you really think an average person would just out of the blue, stand on their head infront of a coke machine in a mall?

 

[spiny norman]

I don't understand the point of this thread. I think nobody shall be converted after reading/posting in it.

That said, I'm agnostic. I would think it ignorant of me to blindly accept that this must be what happens once I die, so I generally keep an open mind about all religions. Especially cults.

 

[blue_chameleon]

Hah why is that only a god may bring supposed order? Is it not possible that life may 'find a way' on its own?

What do you mean?

Put religion aside, what do u think will happen when you die? You get buried, and you body breaks down, and thats it? When you die, thats it.

When you closing your eyes and the last seconds of your life pass by, you see it as being you just go to sleep, forever? That is too hard for me to comprehend.

 

[joujou_84]

I don't understand the point of this thread. I think nobody shall be converted after reading/posting in it.

That said, I'm agnostic. I would think it ignorant of me to blindly accept that this must be what happens once I die, so I generally keep an open mind about all religions. Especially cults.

whos here to convert anyone????

 

[spiny norman]

Sorry, you misunderstand.

What I'm saying is nobody will be swayed by the debate here. 164 pages in, and the agnostics are still agnostic, the Christians still Christian, the atheists still atheist, the Muslims still Muslim etc. All that will happen is that people will be polarised and angered. I suppose I don't really comprehend why you would want to start a topic that so many people would be incredibly impassioned about.

 

[joujou_84]

Sorry, you misunderstand.

What I'm saying is nobody will be swayed by the debate here. 164 pages in, and the agnostics are still agnostic, the Christians still Christian, the atheists still atheist, the Muslims still Muslim etc. All that will happen is that people will be polarised and angered. I suppose I don't really comprehend why you would want to start a topic that so many people would be incredibly impassioned about.

no i understood........no one is here to change anyone...........its just a debate.......and a sharing of religions.......i personally have learnt alot from this thread abt other religions........and why should anyone get angry.......in life u have to accept that others have their own opinion and its probably a better idea to understand this persons opinion rather than ignorantly lash out at them and this thread allows ppl to understand where others are coming from......

 

[Generator]

What do you mean?

Put religion aside, what do u think will happen when you die? You get buried, and you body breaks down, and thats it? When you die, thats it.

When you closing your eyes and the last seconds of your life pass by, you see it as being you just go to sleep, forever? That is too hard for me to comprehend.

With that line I just meant to respond to the coincidence point and say that life is capable of producing at least a semblance of order and that you should not just assume that divine intervention is the reason for life's supposed order.

I do not know what will happen when I die, but I find it far more likely that I will live on within the realms of memory (that's it) and not the spiritual realms of the occult (something after).

Do you really think an average person would just out of the blue, stand on their head infront of a coke machine in a mall?

Not the average person, but I could easily picture a social heckler doing such a thing .