Does God Exist? (2 Viewers)

[Kulazzi]

IF the Quran is Gods words, do you think that these actions against women is what it God said?

i mean think about it, if god exists, he created women for a reason, and this just doesent make any sense, its stupid.

if you haven't already, read the english version rather than making judgments based on just the one article

 

[dark_angel]

if you haven't already, read the english version rather than making judgments based on just the one article

dude, i didnt make judgments based on just one article, ive debated this issue, with the exact same extract from the quran in this very thread (if i can remember)

 

[Kulazzi]

dude, i didnt make judgments based on just one article, ive debated this issue, with the exact same extract from the quran in this very thread (if i can remember)

well, if you can't remember the quote, then give me the chapter and verse numbers so I can verify this. Do you have an actual copy of the Qur'an? (don't mean to sound arrogant)

 

[dark_angel]

well, if you can't remember the quote, then give me the chapter and verse numbers so I can verify this. Do you have an actual copy of the Qur'an? (don't mean to sound arrogant)

“Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because men spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those among you who fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them.” Sura 4:34

i took this from the article purely because i couldnt be bothered searching for it on the net.

no, i dont have a copy of the Quran, and frankly i dont really want a copy (i also dont mean to sound arrogant)

 

[Kulazzi]

that is incorrect. From a copy which I personally keep it says:

"Men are the protectors and mianatiners of women, Because Allah has given the one more strength than the other and because they support them from their mean

Therefore the righteous women are Devoutly obedient, and guard In (the husband's) absence what Allah would have guard them

As to those women On whose part ye fear Disloyalty and ill-conduct, Admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); But if they return to obedience, Seek not against them, Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, Great (above you all)"

Now, this is directly from the Qur'an so I don't know where that author got their source from. Please note that I am a practicing muslim (and female!)

 

[Kulazzi]

never take Qur'an quotes out from the net. It can be misleading which is not a very good idea.

 

[dark_angel]

never take Qur'an quotes out from the net. It can be misleading which is not a very good idea.

I got this from a website.

[4.34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

No offence or anything now, this may come as a shock, but i also got this from a site.....and it has the exact same wording (EXACT) as your "personal copy".

SOOOOOOO

Now, noting that you are a practicing muslim and female, i will say that the internet can also be very precise, and that your theory has just been disproved.

Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

dont believe me?

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html

So in my personal opinion, anything that you say about the internet and its relations with the quran will wholely be ignored by me.

 

[Kulazzi]

I said it can be misleading. I've seen websites set up as Muslim websites but in fact are not and display the wrong meanings. But, our meanings are the same, but the one you took from the article is different. So, which one do you believe? What I meant was, that if you grab a personal english copy than it will be far more accurate than the net. Don't believe me? Go try it out for yourself.

 

[joujou_84]

for gods sake.......ive told dark angel 80 million times to stop getting quotes off the net..but he dosent listen....oh well

katie....let me point point all the incorrect parts of that article..

so turkish women are liberated huh....yeh banning the scarf is great liberation isnt it. if i choose to show my body to everyone suddenly this makes me liberated but if i choose to cover up...im opressed...wtf...even when i was an atheist i respected islam's law that all women must cover up.

The quran verse is showing that men excel women in the area of work and providing....this is their ROLE in islam......a man MUST provide for women, so yes he excels in this PARTICULAR area...women excel in the area of raising kids and maintaining the household...that is our role...women however can also work, yet they dont have to...

the marrying four wives business is to do with the days that men outnumbered women due to war and to prevent widows from becoming beggars or prostituting to feed their kids this verse was revealed in the quran.. it isnt practiced alot today as no one can afford 4 wives..its very hard to have this many wives as all must be treated equally....

women inherit half of wat their brothers inherit because they also inherit half their husbands wealth meaning they end up inheriting more than the male anyway...plus a male must support a family whilst a women is supported by her husband...

a womans testimony is half of a man because women allow their emotions to dictate their actions and who cares anyway since today we deal with these things through lawyers....this isnt relevant anymore. plus women are bitches and back in the day a women would make a fasle testimony saying that another women had commited fornication just so she can get back at her for something...if we were to only accept one womens testimony then alot of innocent women could have been put in a bad position.

why did mohammad marry aisha at 7...because her father abu baker was ashamed of his daughter...as men were back in the days when girls were buried alive and he walked out into the street telling ppl he had a daughter and did they want her...the prohet heard and married her to save her from ending up with someone wholl abuse her yet he did not touch her until she was older...since a seven yr old is not baligh and it is prohibited to sleep with an underaged kid.

so wats wrong with killing a women who commits adultery...?? theres nothing wrong with it...if she repents then they cant kill her..its only when she refuses to repent and says that wat she did was right.....same goes for a man.,....i dont see wats wrong with this

also a man cannot just say ur divorced three times...thats bullshit....u have to take the matter to a shiekh... u cant just divorce someone on ur own...and a girl can divorce a guy...as long as the authority has been written in her name...my friend did it...and she divorced him.....so wat that women has said is bullshit.

honour killings are bullshit too and only psycos kill their kids.

Women are equals in islam...their is no such thing as oppression of women in islam...maybe ur family chooses to oppress u..but thats got nothing to do with islam...and if u say ur honour killing is in the name of islam...then ull be the first to enter hell....

 

[somechick]

Man, this article makes me angry, seriously, if this is NOT islam, then why is it written in the Quran, why is it still happening????

Let me ask you a question, you are in australia right now, this is why you can answer these posts with such vivaciousness and empathy, but if you are in a country such as pakistan and saudi-arabia, will you even have these rights????

And i dont think that islam is perhaps the best religion which "deals with women". Ive heard my father talk and rave on about how he saw so many people executed in front of him, and i think its attrocious. But shit, what can we do? Its not like one of the biggest religions can change its practices instantaneously.

I dont know why but i took this very offensively and sounded racist to me.
Listen, I am a female muslim and I am proud to be considered Australian. I am very lucky to have been brought up here, which is why I am thankful for a voice.

Now, you answered your own question in your question. ITS CULTURE NOT RELIGION WHICH MAKES MEN ACT LIKE IGNORANT SHITS. I hate the fact that people automatically think of facist arab men whenever they hear the word 'muslim'. Thats the way the media have branded us. And it seems to me how much distinction is placed between western and eastern females, when we are not at all different. How is it that we have a lack of females in parliment still? We are all, every country, working towards a goal. So dont assume that in Eastern countries it is universally accepted to beat females. There is a lack of law in certain countries, which explains things like Sharia law- the use of religion to legitimise claim/law.
Nevertheless, can you account for the numerous tales of incest, murder, etc that are the tales from the Bible? Of course not. The Bible and Christianity changes with changing culture and time.
Islam will not change. That is the way it is. It is not a flaw of religion, it is a flaw of culture.

 

[joujou_84]

wats ur point dark angel......wats wrong with the verse.....

 

[Kulazzi]

damn! I can't rep you joujou! Excellent post.

 

[dark_angel]

I dont know why but i took this very offensively and sounded racist to me.
Listen, I am a female muslim and I am proud to be considered Australian. I am very lucky to have been brought up here, which is why I am thankful for a voice.

Now, you answered your own question in your question. ITS CULTURE NOT RELIGION WHICH MAKES MEN ACT LIKE IGNORANT SHITS. I hate the fact that people automatically think of facist arab men whenever they hear the word 'muslim'. Thats the way the media have branded us. And it seems to me how much distinction is placed between western and eastern females, when we are not at all different. How is it that we have a lack of females in parliment still? We are all, every country, working towards a goal. So dont assume that in Eastern countries it is universally accepted to beat females. There is a lack of law in certain countries, which explains things like Sharia law- the use of religion to legitimise claim/law.
Nevertheless, can you account for the numerous tales of incest, murder, etc that are the tales from the Bible? Of course not. The Bible and Christianity changes with changing culture and time.
Islam will not change. That is the way it is. It is not a flaw of religion, it is a flaw of culture.

arent some forms of culture derived from religion?

 

[Kulazzi]

no. They're totally two different things that shouldn't be put under one category. My culture is very different to my religion.

 

[dark_angel]

wats ur point dark angel......wats wrong with the verse.....

my point was that i just proved that quotes from the net can be accurate

and i dont know what is wrong with the verse, beating is beating, even if it is lightly or strongly

 

[somechick]

arent some forms of culture derived from religion?

Yes. And to answer in your own words 'some' not all.
But what's to stop George Bush waging war in the name of God as he did? Obviously religion can be used as a tool for/by the ignorant.

 

[dark_angel]

no. They're totally two different things that shouldn't be put under one category. My culture is very different to my religion.

is wearing a hajab culture or religion?

 

[joujou_84]

is wearing a hajab culture or religion?

religion.....

 

[Kulazzi]

my point was that i just proved that quotes from the net can be accurate

and i dont know what is wrong with the verse, beating is beating, even if it is lightly or strongly

Lightly beating is totally different from strong beating. Hence the word "lightly" in brackets from the verse. Don't tell me you don't know the difference. And, it is totally different from the article one.

 

[dark_angel]

Yes. And to answer in your own words 'some' not all.
But what's to stop George Bush waging war in the name of God as he did? Obviously religion can be used as a tool for/by the ignorant.

george bush is nothing, if he does not faithfully beleive and pray/believe to god.