Does God Exist? (3 Viewers)

[eviltama]

The real question is... why do they believe <insert relevent deity here> exists? do they believe just because they believe? if so that kinda comment was ruled out of this debate in the beginning lol

The only person who can question that persons beliefs is someone who also believes in X deity. And if you wanted to just make it a general 'why do you believe?' question, no answer they came up with for you would be good enough unless you too believed in some variety of deity, or in that particular deity. It wouldn't make sense to you.

 

[ur_inner_child]

So you believe that blissful ignorance is ok?
So you'd also believe that we should censor our children from violence, not teach them about wars etc?

I dunno if it's just me but, are you kinda implying that God, undoubtably doesn't exist? You don't know. All signs point to it so far, but you still don't know, so using examples and words like "ignorance" implies that God does not exist, definetly and unmistakably. You've been Christian before. Somewhere, beneath all the awareness you have over the constructs, flaws and faulty religions, there's a part of you that doesn't know, I'm sure of it??? You have no idea about what happens after you die, you simply know that you die. You might rot and then there is nothing, or you might be in heaven/hell kicking yourself. So using "ignorance" is rather awkward, perhaps, only to me I guess, implying that you DO know that there is no God, definetly, unmistakably. I'm not arguing against you particularly. I'm just in awe of your confidence about it lol

 

[Not-That-Bright]

So what your saying is that in order to be convinced to believe... i already need to believe? that's not right.

 

[eviltama]

I TOTALLY understand this.
God exists when you let Him exist.
And before you rebutt,
Define existance...
Okay, mind boggling now. That was a good post though eviltama. I loved it.

Define existance how is the rebutt to that. How can i define existance to you, to make you understand where i'm coming from.... OF course there are those stubborn people who are like 'He exists... cause i said so..' or 'because of the bible' or '<insert lame non-sensical excuse here>'. It's true, that its fair enough to belive in the existance of some so called deity but unless you can prove it to others, he/she only exists to you and to those who agree with you.... For everyone else its a non-issue because they don't have that belief and they don't need to credit his/her existance.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I was using the word ignorance because he was talking to it comming down to what the individual wants to believe... not everyone can be right if their beliefs are contradictory, so yes some of them would be ignorant.

No, i'm sorry but i'm not even agnostic... even tho i have experienced religious experiences... prayer followed by better feeling... my logic prevails over the reason for this happening.

 

[ur_inner_child]

Define existance how is the rebutt to that. How can i define existance to you, to make you understand where i'm coming from.... OF course there are those stubborn people who are like 'He exists... cause i said so..' or 'because of the bible' or '<insert lame non-sensical excuse here>'. It's true, that its fair enough to belive in the existance of some so called deity but unless you can prove it to others, he/she only exists to you and to those who agree with you.... For everyone else its a non-issue because they don't have that belief and they don't need to credit his/her existance.

Well I was in a different frame of mind, and I guess I didn't explain it right, but hell my brain hurts from ext eng.... apologies for the confusion

 

[Dougie]

Define existance how is the rebutt to that. How can i define existance to you, to make you understand where i'm coming from.... OF course there are those stubborn people who are like 'He exists... cause i said so..' or 'because of the bible' or '<insert lame non-sensical excuse here>'. It's true, that its fair enough to belive in the existance of some so called deity but unless you can prove it to others, he/she only exists to you and to those who agree with you.... For everyone else its a non-issue because they don't have that belief and they don't need to credit his/her existance.

and if the individual believes, then they shouldn't worry about everyone else...
anyone else notice the lovely circles we go in...
and no-one has any proof against my rather unique belief yet?! no surprise, argueing against a belief is like argueing against who someone is. There are no right and wrong answers, it's up to the individual! aarrgghh!!!
<<repetitive ramble>>

 

[Not-That-Bright]

and if the individual believes, then they shouldn't worry about everyone else...
anyone else notice the lovely circles we go in...
and no-one has any proof against my rather unique belief yet?! no surprise, argueing against a belief is like argueing against who someone is. There are no right and wrong answers, it's up to the individual! aarrgghh!!!
<<repetitive ramble>>

I agree. It is impossible to just change someones belief if they are stuck in it... and choose just to believe it because it is their belief.
However i feel through this discussion we have been able to acertain that a belief in a christian god is no better founded than a belief in a flying goat god called galgamesh...

I think if you asked christians if they would believe in a flying goat god called galgamesh all of them would say no, yet they believe in a christian god... such a random world we live in

 

[Dougie]

must agree, otherwise it keeps going round in circles!
and i agree anyway...

 

[Dougie]

still, no takers on "everything is somewhere"
difficult to argue, hey

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Yea... weird how christians, muslims, jews etc would call that stupid...
In my mind that tells me that if they were objective, they'd probably think their own religions stupid too.
But i dunno... lol nah jk i'm sure if they think a religion with the same kinda basis as theirs is stupid, that therefor makes their religion also stupid...

 

[Dougie]

yeah, only thing is i merge it with christianity, and it still works nicely...anyway, i might just be a looney after all!!!

 

[hmm?]

ok... hows bout this....
The idea of God sacrificing himself to himself, in order to prevent himself sending us all to Hell for commiting sins because of the way he made us, and which he knew we were going to do anyway, is a little hard to swallow don't you think?

Inner Child.... read this -> http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/judgmentday.html

i dont no if ne1 has replied 2 this alredy..i havnt red ne further on...Maybe i should use proper English so my argument looks credible.
Ill start with saying that i dont know much about philosophy nor will i try to give any flashy "explanations" of anything. (I like to be self-reflexive).
Id also like to apologise to anyone in advance if i have offended them because this is not my intention - i am merely stating my opinion among many others.

This is the fundemental basis of one religion, which i agree...does has flaws. Im not a Christian Scholar and i cant understand how individuals can place a human being as a god (or the son of god? gosh i dont understand that either, how can he be both ("God why have you forsaken me?!")?).
But i ask what your argument is regarding other religions and their belief in the existence of God?
I know that Islam values the existence in one God and that the Holy Koran is unlike any other religious script. It has not been written by individuals not by Prophet Mohammed's friends but rather it has been sent to him by God from God. (How did prophet Mohammed just happen to learn to read the Koran (remember - he was illiterate - who allowed him to do that?)) The scientific miracles it explains (frm about 1500yrs ago) are miraculous! It even metions the idea of a kind of "big bang". How could anyone 1500yrs ago know that there are waters where the salt and the fresh never transfused? How could anyone explain in such detail the miracles of birth of...anything, other than he who created these things in the first place?!

Just for thought.
But i would like to read your reply to this.

 

[thejosiekiller]

I agree. It is impossible to just change someones belief if they are stuck in it... and choose just to believe it because it is their belief.
However i feel through this discussion we have been able to acertain that a belief in a christian god is no better founded than a belief in a flying goat god called galgamesh...

I think if you asked christians if they would believe in a flying goat god called galgamesh all of them would say no, yet they believe in a christian god... such a random world we live in

im sorry but this is bshit i dont intend to stay once again for a long time, but you ask the question whether you BELIEVE god exists? and require proof/reasoning in your answer.....im sorry thats a stupid question because how can anyone be satisfied with any proof and or contemplate the impossible. it should be a simple question and shouldnt require anyone to prove their beliefs because your beliefs are your own and are a construct of the mind.

this thread is going in circles because you ask for proof of people who believe
and the people who ask you to believe dismiss the the proof.

another thing is the concept of god- every1 has a different opinion.

basically the only answer you are looking for is no
trying to justify god/whatever doesnt exist changes nothing at all because you still have life- what matters are people's beliefs that your unwilling to accept

 

[Not-That-Bright]

im sorry but this is bshit i dont intend to stay once again for a long time, but you ask the question whether you BELIEVE god exists? and require proof/reasoning in your answer.....im sorry thats a stupid question because how can anyone be satisfied with any proof and or contemplate the impossible. it should be a simple question and shouldnt require anyone to prove their beliefs because your beliefs are your own and are a construct of the mind.

this thread is going in circles because you ask for proof of people who believe
and the people who ask you to believe dismiss the the proof.

another thing is the concept of god- every1 has a different opinion.

basically the only answer you are looking for is no
trying to justify god/whatever doesnt exist changes nothing at all because you still have life- what matters are people's beliefs that your unwilling to accept

You are a lost cause, nothing i say will ever get through to you. I like talking to people like hmm? and dougie because they give feed back.... talk fairly, you just keep going on with incoherant nonsense that i continuously have to explain to you is fundamentally wrong.

I don't want to respond to you anymore.

 

[thejosiekiller]

im sorry then dont ask stupid questions and when people say yes analyse to death a point

if you want feedback and someone to tell you the same things you are thinking that is not a discussion, i understand that you cant accept things like faith without having to argue.


i have never meet someone who was so unwilling to believe god doesnt exist- what is your problem? dont ask questions then and act like a cunt

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I don't quite get what you're saying...
First the reason why i focus on christianity is because it is the religion most theists believe in, or at least most people know about.. (because they go around protesting it everywhere... tv, movies, etc, i've never had a muslim or a hindu come to my house telling me about their god).

Secondly you talked about how in the koran it mentions that allah is illiterate however learnt to read... i can first point out that you can't use a book like the bible, koran to prove anything (they could be fake...) and that secondly if it is true... he could of learnt to be literate in another way not mentioned in the text, when you think about things like this first you have to ask 'is there another possible solution?'.

The fact that a few predictions were made in a very ambiguous way isn't that impressive, throughout history people have written stories of things that have yet to come to pass.... space travel, submarines, helicopters...

Hope this helps you a bit?

 

[hmm?]

Im trying to be nice in my replies here. There's no need to be demeaning.
correstion - allah (this is the arabic word for GOD) was not illiterate - im saying that his Prophet was illiterate.
I knew you were going to come out with your post-moder proclivities which i know also cant be avoided in todays context because yes we have heard it time and time again that there is no absolute truth.
(I forgot to mention that each and every 'copy' of the Koran is exactly the same each full stop, each apostrophe all in exactly the same position - there are no discepancies with stories from different 'people')
I also doubt that you have read any of the holy scripts in your argument that the Koran is a "vague" prediction of scientific understanding.

 

[thejosiekiller]

I don't quite get what you're saying...
First the reason why i focus on christianity is because it is the religion most theists believe in, or at least most people know about.. (because they go around protesting it everywhere... tv, movies, etc, i've never had a muslim or a hindu come to my house telling me about their god).

Secondly you talked about how in the koran it mentions that allah is illiterate however learnt to read... i can first point out that you can't use a book like the bible, koran to prove anything (they could be fake...) and that secondly if it is true... he could of learnt to be literate in another way not mentioned in the text, when you think about things like this first you have to ask 'is there another possible solution?'.

The fact that a few predictions were made in a very ambiguous way isn't that impressive, throughout history people have written stories of things that have yet to come to pass.... space travel, submarines, helicopters...

Hope this helps you a bit?

first of all im not talking about christianity here- im talking about my beliefs. i dont agree with organised religion

u asked an ambigous question about whether u believe god exists? the answer is yes- do you not understand that

i made several refernecs, but none that u talk about

ud rather talk shit, i guess thats what u think of philosophy

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I'm not even talking to you thejosiekiller.

Hmm... Just because i do not know every facet of your religion doesn't mean my views aren't justified...

Atheists reject Christianity (and all the others) for a few very simple reasons. You don't need to examine every rivet on the Titanic to check its seaworthiness when you've already spotted the enormous iceberg-shaped gash in the hull.

* There are hundreds, if not thousands, of mutually exclusive religions all claiming to have The One Truth and divinely inspired, infallible scriptures.
* There are hundreds, if not thousands, of (often mutually exclusive) sects within Christianity, all claiming to have The One True interpretation of scripture. (They will also often claim that members of different sects are "not real Christians").
* There is overwhelming evidence suggesting that the history and nature of the universe (and life on Earth) bears no resemblance whatsoever to the myths of any religion.
* There is little or no objective evidence in favour of the existence of any deity.
* There are plenty of better, naturalistic explanations for the phenomena we observe around us. The explanations given by religions tend to only raise more problems than they solve.
* Most, if not all, descriptions of Deities are incoherent, meaningless, self-contradictory or refuted by simple observations (omni-benevolence and the problem of gratuitous evil, for instance).