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Does God Exist? (2 Viewers)

thejosiekiller

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i have no idea what you r going on about because you keep on going about knowing christianity, but u have to accept that is not every1s faith and even christians cant "prove" the existence of god

im not going on about ur views because ur views have just turned into the opposite view of anyone else's

try again notthatbright im sorry i understand this goes around in cricles, but you have to realise the question you asked and the "guidelines" to the question are still pointless regarding you want people to say no
 

Not-That-Bright

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I have a question for the theists, you have asked me 'why don't you just end it if it's all meaningless',
to which i've replied...
'"Have you ever built a snowman?" After all, snowmen are ephemeral objects, soon to be melted in the sun. A snowman has no ultimate purpose or goal, and in a few weeks there will be no trace of it's ever existing. We build snowmen because all of us, theists and atheists, live here and now. In the context of our own brief mortal lives, we are able to enjoy this life and gain pleasure from ultimately pointless acts. It is fun to build a snowman, or climb a mountain, or watch the sunset, or go for a long cycle ride in the countryside. The purpose of these things is not "out there" somewhere, waiting to be achieved - the meaning is in what it means to ourselves. I am not overly concerned about some future fifty billion years from now, but I am concerned about the future of humanity here, now and for the generations that follow. That is the context of a mortal life, and that is why I "bother" to live and damn well have fun while I'm doing it.

There is no meaning to life itself. There is no purpose to the universe. You can, however, give life meaning through your actions. Make the world a better place for yourself, your contemporaries and your descendents. '
My question if for you people saying that each person can have their own little belief and be happy and justified... how do you find meaning knowing that? that everyone is just going through life living out their own 'version' of reality? don't you think that's kinda pointless?
What do you people believe the purpose of life is.
 

Not-That-Bright

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thejosiekiller said:
i have no idea what you r going on about because you keep on going about knowing christianity, but u have to accept that is not every1s faith and even christians cant "prove" the existence of god

im not going on about ur views because ur views have just turned into the opposite view of anyone else's

try again notthatbright im sorry i understand this goes around in cricles, but you have to realise the question you asked and the "guidelines" to the question are still pointless regarding you want people to say no
So they have an existance in something they have no idea is there?
They believe in something on the basis that it's possible, or that it can't be proven to be fake.
It is possible that I am a god, and it cannot be proven to be fake (my powers are too high for you to imagine). Therefor i have as good a basis believing i am God as christians do believing in their christian God.

No, i don't have the 'opposite view of everyone else' i share common views with alot of people, that doesn't make them right however.
 
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thejosiekiller

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im sorry ur bullshitting again- ur not smart by ridiculing religion...hope you realise that and why you do it because your just avoiding the question
 

Not-That-Bright

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hmmm.... maybe you people have never thought about it...
People become atheistic for many reasons. A popular misconception among theists is that we have some terrible experience (lose a loved one, for example) and ask "How can I believe in a God that allows this to happen?", or start to hate God for allowing it to happen. It should be noted that in order to hate God, you actually have to believe in Him. People who claim to hate God (for whatever reason) are not, by definition, atheists. An atheist may hate a religion, or hate what people do in the name of a God, but an atheist cannot hate something that she does not believe in (it would be like hating dragons for eating princesses).

Another misconception is that people choose to become atheists. It's as though we say to ourselves, "Well, I really do believe in God, but I'm just going to pretend I don't believe.". Atheism is not a choice - you don't wake up one morning, flip a coin, and declare yourself to be atheist. It is not a teenage fad, nor is it a rebellious act (although some people are driven to atheism by constant preaching). It is not an arbitrary decision - "What shall I have for breakfast today? Erm... toast. What colour carpet should we choose this year? Erm... green. What god should I believe in? Erm... none." - it doesn't work like that.

The idea that atheism is some sort of rebellion is a common one, but also quite absurd. I often hear people saying that I'm rebelling because I don't like the idea of "something bigger than me", or I don't want to be accountable to a higher power, and so on. If that was the case, then I would not be an atheist, because I would still believe in the God I was trying to get away from! I do not merely say I am an atheist in order to make life easier for myself - I actually am an atheist. I do not believe in the gods of the Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Christians and all the rest. If I was just rebelling, then surely I would know that God would still be there, waiting for me when I die. The accusation of rebellion seems to come from theists who are simply unable to accept the fact that there are hundreds of millions of people in the world who just do not believe in their god, or anyone else's. The idea that "everyone believes in something" is so deeply ingrained in their psyche, and their own belief is so deeply held and important to them, that the only way they can deal with non-belief is to deny that it actually exists (or they start saying that atheism is itself a religion). It's funny, but I've never heard of a Christian saying to a Hindu "Ah, but you really do believe in Jesus Christ, you're just in denial. When are you going to stop pretending? All this worship of Vishnu is just rebelling against what you know in your heart is true!"

People do not choose atheism - they realise that they have lost their faith and have therefore become atheist (some even fight against it, and it can be traumatic to lose your faith if that faith has been a major part of your life). One of the common reasons for this is that people simply realise that (for themselves, at least) better, more complete and coherent explanations about Life, The Universe And Everything can be found outside of religion - the universe just makes a lot more sense without any sort of God involved. We see no evidence of a Creator in cosmology or biology (which covers just about everything); nothing is known to exist or happen for which the only possible explanation is Divine Intervention. Many, if not all, of the answers given by religions range from vague and ambiguous, through incoherent and contradictory (unless you just have "faith" that they are correct), down to ad-hoc explanations which cannot be tested (or are easily refuted and demonstrably false pseudo-science). Many of the rules and regulations laid down by religion tend to be arbitrary or irrational, and those that are not do not appear to be Divinely Revealed anyway. People lose their faith when their religion has nothing substantial to offer, and better answers, philosophies and ways of life can be found elsewhere.

It should be remembered that everyone, you included, is born an atheist - babies do not believe in God. Your religion often depends on your upbringing - if your parents are Southern Baptists, you will probably also be a Southern Baptist. If your parents are Muslims, then you will probably be one also. Which God do you believe in? I'm betting it's entirely dependent on geography. It's a bit of a lottery, isn't it?

Aren't you lucky to have been in a country that just happens to worship the One True God? =)

I became an athiest when the world (and indeed the universe) in which I lived was entirely consistent with one that has no God, no Creator, no Guiding Intelligence. There was no valid reason to believe that any sort of a God existed. God became just another supernatural critter that people seriously believed in despite the lack of evidence, like Bigfoot, alien-abductor and lake monsters. I don't necessarily think that all religious people are deluded, irrational nuts (although a minority certainly are - see my feedback pages). I just think they're mistaken, and may very well hold perfectly rational and coherent reasons for their beliefs.

I saw that many people had different reasons for believing in Gods, including (somewhat over-simplified):

* They had simply been indoctrinated at an early age, and the beliefs became so much a part of their life that the idea of questioning or doubting simply never occurred to them. They believe it because they have just always known it to be true. (As mentioned above, people usually end up with whatever the religion of their family happens to be.)

* They feel that we must be here for a purpose. The universe and this beautiful Earth cannot all be a pointless accident, and God is the best explanation. We are all here for a reason, but only God knows exactly what that reason is and we'll just have to trust him.

* A sense of justice. It's not fair for evil people to commit all sorts of terrible acts and simply escape punishment by dying. The idea of heaven/hell ensures that good people are rewarded and bad people are suitable punished.

* A deep objection to being merely "animals". Many creationists, for instance, are offended at the idea that humans simply evolved along with all other animals. God made us separate and special, and we have a "soul" but the animals do not (biological snobbery?).

* Comfort. Many people find it very comforting to believe that a loving God is always watching over them and caring for them, and when anything good or bad happens to them, this is all part of his Plan for their life. Also, religion is obviously very comforting when faced with the death of a loved one. It's much easier and more reassuring to believe that Grandma is free from pain now, up in Heaven with Jesus where she's waiting for us to join her for eternity, than to think that she has simply ceased to exist and the universe will have forgotten her in a couple of generations.

* Afterlife. It seems almost incomprehensible to believe that when your body dies, your existence ends. Sensation and awareness are so much a part of our existence that it is extremely difficult to imagine no longer being able to experience anything. Try to imagine that, for example, a big meteor crashes into your house and instantly kills you at the end of this paragraph. We just cannot imagine not existing or abruptly ceasing to be aware and conscious, and so it is quite natural to think that something will continue to exist after the death of our brain. It's a short step from there to accepting the idea of an immortal soul, and heaven or reincarnation or some other form of afterlife.
 

eviltama

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My question if for you people saying that each person can have their own little belief and be happy and justified... how do you find meaning knowing that? that everyone is just going through life living out their own 'version' of reality? don't you think that's kinda pointless?
What do you people believe the purpose of life is.
What a silly question... 'how do i find meaning in knowing that?' ROFLMAO. Its like saying how do i find meaning in knowing that we have a fairly decent education system to provide kids with the basic tools of life... Why shouldn't i find meaning in thinking that everyone has their own belief and can be happy and justified with that belief? Its the same as finding meaning in the theory of original and free thought/thinkers. If people are happy living this version of reality, then good-o on them. As long as they ain't hurting no one else and don't force their beliefs on others then why shouldn't they have that right... why shouldn't we all?
I don't think its pointless in any way, shape or form... because you make that way, you choose the form and you pick the shape of your belief. The purpose of life.. is to live. If that wasn't the purpose then why do we exist at all? Maybe we are the organic supercomputer in Hitchhikers, but still our purpose is to live to achieve that result... nothing changes for us.
 

Not-That-Bright

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Everyone having their own beliefs must negate to you that a bunch of them are just lies people are telling themselves (including my beliefs).
There can only be in reality... ONE truth to you, so you must feel other peoples lives lack meaning.. or perhaps yours is the wrong belief?
 

eviltama

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Not-That-Bright said:
Everyone having their own beliefs must negate to you that a bunch of them are just lies people are telling themselves (including my beliefs).
There can only be in reality... ONE truth to you, so you must feel other peoples lives lack meaning.. or perhaps yours is the wrong belief?
Why can there be only ONE reality? ONE interpretation of that reality? There are several billion people living on earth who all view things differently, who all live in different situations, who all have basically nothing in common other than the fact that they are human and they have a belief system (or several depending on your culture). I don't believe theirs (or yours) is any more real, or fake than my own. You can have your beliefs, if its a whole bunch of lies then that is in your lap not mine. But if you say 'well i believe in fairies with cute little tutu's and one of them is my guardian angel' i'm gonna be like o_O, but that is your belief and you have the right to have that belief.. i can't (shouldn't) criticise you for having that belief.

There is no right belief.. hence there is no wrong one. And its wrong to think that there has to be a right and a wrong belief. Its discriminating without thought. My belief is just as valid as yours, as anyone elses, there is nothing to say otherwise. Why doubt others unless you doubt yourself? Do you doubt your belief?
 

Not-That-Bright

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I doubt my belief all the time...
Are you you saying that when these people die, each of them is going to experience their own belief of what an afterlife is? is that your belief?

Any belief that is based on nothing more than 'faith' isn't that strong...
It is a belief based on its belief.
 

eviltama

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Not-That-Bright said:
I doubt my belief all the time...
Are you you saying that when these people die, each of them is going to experience their own belief of what an afterlife is? is that your belief?

Any belief that is based on nothing more than 'faith' isn't that strong...
It is a belief based on its belief.
I don't know what happens in 'the afterlife' any more than anyone else does. Any discussion on that (i believe) can on speculate on what happens then. And i don't see why people can't have their own views and beliefs on that topic... just like any other topic.. politics, sport etc. Though personally i do think it would be interesting IF we all experienced our own form of afterlife... but yeah mine would be hella confusing tho so i don't think i'd really want that...lol

Faith is just as strong as any other ideology. Its the persons belief... will power and strength that dictates how strong 'faith' is. I believe in the Fey, but having no proof of their existance my belief is only as strong as i am in their existance. *shrugs* Same goes for anyones belief... its only as strong as the individual.
 

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thejosiekiller said:
im sorry but this is bshit i dont intend to stay once again for a long time, but you ask the question whether you BELIEVE god exists? and require proof/reasoning in your answer.....im sorry thats a stupid question because how can anyone be satisfied with any proof and or contemplate the impossible. it should be a simple question and shouldnt require anyone to prove their beliefs because your beliefs are your own and are a construct of the mind.

The fifty-seventh time this question has been asked:

If you don't have any proof for believing it, why do you believe?
 

Not-That-Bright

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It's because we can't contemplate the impossible... I swear... you guys are such romantic idealists... I bet you all believed in santa claus lol

Seriously, the sorta thing i hear theists talking about is the same sorta comments i hear about santa claus in childrens movies 'believe in the impossible!' 'just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist!'
But, when the movie ends... you switch back to reality... oh no, santa is fake.
 

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There seems to be a great deal of spurious talk about how everyone can be right and that its all a matter of interpretation.

Whether there is or is not a God is a straightforward proposition that is either true or false. If you believe there is a God, provide a reason. It's very simple! No reasons have yet been given, mere statements of belief have been given.

Here's the difference:

(a) Belief:
"I believe in God"

(b) Reason:
"I believe in God because X"
 

+Po1ntDeXt3r+

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faith is a blind hope that there is something which makes the decision that controls randomness of the universe.. why genes evolve as they do.. why some ppl get sick and others dont.. 'luck' almost..

to me the uncertainty principle in physics and there is a eqv in maths that says that there is a limit to humans understanding and how we describe our world..

mine is the hope that 'God' is tat one that pushs those unseen decisions..
 

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I have to reiterate this is not a discussion as to the morality of believing something. We're not going on about tolerance here, we know that, its common sense. The question is, "Does God exist," so there's no need to go on about how people should just let everyone believe what they want, etc.
 

Not-That-Bright

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Ok, we understand that people hope, we understand that everyone has different beliefs and perspectives on beliefs, we understand that people ARE ENTITLED TO HAVE THAT BELIEF, what we are asking is how did you come to that belief? the only answer so far is 'because i have faith', meaning that because you believe you believe, how do people that never believed before manage to get into the religion?
 

+Po1ntDeXt3r+

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i honestly dont kno how to 'prove' it.. in fact i dont think u can

its too subjective.. the faith has helped me in my life and the belief keeps me going.. action --> results so i choose to believe it..

honestly i once saw a death and the only peace i got was my faith

godels theorem and Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle just showed me that science isnt goin to get me all the way..
 

eviltama

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MoonlightSonata: I believe in the existance of a/the God/s because in nature there is a chain... always on this chain there is someone above you, with more power than you, and so on. That is why i believe in the existance of something/one i cannot touch, hear, see or have any sort of physical relationship with. This is of course my reason.. and my reason only.

Not-That-Bright: I came to my belief through various sources of education as well as observation of happenings occuring within the last 20 years of my so called existance. And as for people getting into religion.. like all things relating to religion its a personal choice, conscious or unconscious. Sometimes is a lack they think they must fill, sometimes is just something they walk into, sometimes its <insert excuse here>... what ever way they get into it, i think its more important how strong their belief is rather than what their belief is or how they came to it. (unless of course we're talking brainwashing cults here or something just as forceful..)
 

Not-That-Bright

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Well that's fine.
It is a fair argument that you believe because of comfort, it does not mean god exists but i'm not going to persecute anyone who admits they can't prove it.. but need it for comfort.
 

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