Down syndrome girl has cosmetic surgery (3 Viewers)

[Bacilli]

although i disagree with cosmetic surgery!

your statement was pathetic man, so if you had a grandma that was in her 80's or 90's, and she gets very ill, DONT bother taking her to the hospital, shes nearing her age and shes going to die soon theres no point.

sad.......indeed

Wtf?

 

[i-love-maynard]

Shit, the cold heartedness of some people on BoS really gets to me. Fuck.......

 

[youBROKEmyLIFE]

If the person in question understood why they were getting cosmetic surgery, is it fair to say that they would also be capable of releasing the statement to the media themselves instead of their parents?

she's 5, her parents are doing it for her because they're looking out for her interests.

 

[boris]

she's 5, her parents are doing it for her because they're looking out for her interests.

No they're not. They're doing it so that they can feel better about themselves and so they won't feel ashamed to take her out in public.

How many kids with Down Syndrome in the world understand that they look like they've got Down Syndrome?

 

[boris]

And she's five dude. They're not doing it because she's said 'oh gay guys, I want cosmetic surgery' they're doing it out of their own selfishness.

If and when she is older and can decide for herself that she wants cosmetic surgery THEN I think it's fine.

 

[Hayley.L]

it really all depends, yes, they are giving her surgery, but kids can be amazingly cruel to people with disabilities. I live around an area where they have a centre and i see them get teased everyday. I stand up for them, but if this is a chance for a girl to have less to be teased about, well... i dont think its that bad. Then again i've never had to live with a disability, so it does come down to individual choice. i just hope it works out for her. i dont noe the full story, but im guessing its the parents allowing it? parents will do just about anything to make their childs lives a little bit easier, i dont think its selfish, if the girl ends up being happy then its all good.

 

[_dhj_]

If you put questions of consent to one side I think a girl with down syndrome ought to have more right to plastic surgery than say, some actress who's concerned about aging.

 

[KFunk]

I've never met anybody with Down Syndrome who had the capacity to determine for themselves whether they needed corrective surgery to enhance their looks.

How will she be happy? She's still going to have Down Syndrome for the rest of her short life. She probably doesn't even have the capacity to look in the mirror and say 'oh gee, I'm so sick of looking like i've got down syndrome.... oh, wait, I do have down syndrome .

It's just the parents being ashamed of the fact their kid has Down Syndrome. It's their choice, not the kids.

A few points:

- Many individuals with Down Syndrome won't have the capacity to determine the things you have mentioned. However, there are high functioning cases that exist with IQs over 70 (and into the low 80's) who will have better reflective capacity, though still limited of course. They might not necessarily come up with the idea, but they may well understand it and appreciate the potential benefits.

- Even if they can't understand the situation they may still benefit from some surgery through a reduction of social stigma and descrimination based on appearance. Does this then warrant the surgery in the long run? I'm not sure I have a definite answer to this.

- It is also worth considering the borderline case of mosaicism where the mutation leading to Down syndrome (i.e. trisomy 21) occurs during early cell divisions, shortly after fertilisation. The result is that a significant proportion, but not all, of the individual's cell population has abnormal chromosomal complement. I actually had a lecture this morning where a paediatric geneticist described a case where such a child with mosaicism had the general physical Down Syndrome appearance but whose cognitive functions were really quite normal (better than one of their non-Down siblings, in fact). Such a child is likely to become all too aware of the social burdens and descrimination that accompany their appearance.

 

[boris]

- It is also worth considering the borderline case of mosaicism where the mutation leading to Down syndrome (i.e. trisomy 21) occurs during early cell divisions, shortly after fertilisation. The result is that a significant proportion, but not all, of the individual's cell population has abnormal chromosomal complement. I actually had a lecture this morning where a paediatric geneticist described a case where such a child with mosaicism had the general physical Down Syndrome appearance but whose cognitive functions were really quite normal (better than one of their non-Down siblings, in fact). Such a child is likely to become all too aware of the social burdens and descrimination that accompany their appearance.

So then when that child is old enough they should have the option to request cosmetic surgery.

I think it's wrong that parents of any 5 year old, with Down Syndrome or not would consider cosmetic surgery purely for aesthetics. If we're talking about cosmetic surgery to improve function (like surgery on the nose to improve breathing) I can understand.

This to me just looks like the parents dont want to deal with the fact their child has Down Syndrome.

And re: my previous statement. What I meant was; you can try cosmetic surgery as a way of improving a kids chance at a normal life - but the point I was making was that getting her eyes and ears pinned back isn't going to make her Down Syndrome go away. She's still going to have Down Syndrome, so I don't know why these parents think it's going to cure the adversity she'll face for the rest of her short life.

 

[boris]

Even if they can't understand the situation they may still benefit from some surgery through a reduction of social stigma and descrimination based on appearance. Does this then warrant the surgery in the long run? I'm not sure I have a definite answer to this.

I haven't seen the end result of the surgery, but I don't think any amount of minor cosmetic surgery will make it less obvious a person has Down Syndrome. So instead of a person with Down Syndrome are they going to become a person with severe mental retardation.

And at 5 what happens when she is an adult and decides she didnt want the surgery?

 

[chicky_pie]

They had a picture of her (Down syndrome girl) would look like in 23 years time.

not pleasant.

 

[youBROKEmyLIFE]

And she's five dude. They're not doing it because she's said 'oh gay guys, I want cosmetic surgery' they're doing it out of their own selfishness.

Do you agree that the child is going to grow up seriously disadvantaged because of their looks? If so then how can you just assume that the parents are doing it out of their own selfishness?

I think it's wrong that parents of any 5 year old, with Down Syndrome or not would consider cosmetic surgery purely for aesthetics. If we're talking about cosmetic surgery to improve function (like surgery on the nose to improve breathing) I can understand.

It's not a matter of making the child look BETTER than a 'normal' child (i.e. They're not trying to win any beauty pageants) it's just a matter of bringing the child closer to the attractiveness of their fellow peers. BTW do you disagree with children who are burns victims receiving cosmetic plastic surgery?

I haven't seen the end result of the surgery, but I don't think any amount of minor cosmetic surgery will make it less obvious a person has Down Syndrome. So instead of a person with Down Syndrome are they going to become a person with severe mental retardation.

It probably won't help too much, but hey, it's going to do a hell of a lot more than nothing.

The parents have been put at ease, and she is probably slashing her wrists by the time she realises the surgery was only because her parents were shit.

Hahaha yeah... She's really going to be angry at them for trying to help her fit in more. I mean I'm sure she'll really wish she didn't fit in so much when she's in highschool with all the nastiness that comes with being a teenage girl there.

 

[KFunk]

This to me just looks like the parents dont want to deal with the fact their child has Down Syndrome.

And re: my previous statement. What I meant was; you can try cosmetic surgery as a way of improving a kids chance at a normal life - but the point I was making was that getting her eyes and ears pinned back isn't going to make her Down Syndrome go away. She's still going to have Down Syndrome, so I don't know why these parents think it's going to cure the adversity she'll face for the rest of her short life.

Whether or not cosmetic surgery makes a difference will largely depend on the kind of neighbourhood the child is brought up in. If it is tolerant and understanding then it might not make much of a difference. On the other hand, in an environment in which 'funny looking kids' get teased and harrassed cosmetic surgery may potentially save them hardship - or at least minimise it! In any case, I don't think it has to be a purely aesthetic choice on the parents' part. Sure, it could be - I don't doubt this - but such a choice might also be driven by largely altruistic concerns (e.g. for the child's wellbeing). Childrens' social environments have profound effects on their social and intellectual development and so I don't think it is too unreasonable to suggest that cosmetic surgery might yield a significant benefit for some kids.

 

[youBROKEmyLIFE]

KFunk, my understanding is that children who are accident victims/are born with defects/burns victims are regularly given cosmetic surgery which serves no theraputic purpose more than to make them look better. Other than perhaps some perception that it's different because it's genetic disorder... I can't really tell the difference?

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

KFunk, my understanding is that children who are accident victims/are born with defects/burns victims are regularly given cosmetic surgery which serves no theraputic purpose more than to make them look better. Other than perhaps some perception that it's different because it's genetic disorder... I can't really tell the difference?

i think the difference is that a burn victim is able to make the decision themselves where a person with DS cannot, necessarily. Especially not a five year old. Hell, five year olds in perfect health are probably not able to make a decision that big for themselves yet on account of their cognitive reasoning abilities not being developed enough, let alone a five year old with a mental retardation.

 

[youBROKEmyLIFE]

i think the difference is that a burn victim is able to make the decision themselves where a person with DS cannot, necessarily. Especially not a five year old. Hell, five year olds in perfect health are probably not able to make a decision that big for themselves yet on account of their cognitive reasoning abilities not being developed enough, let alone a five year old with a mental retardation.

I'm talking about a 5 year old burn/accident victim. BTW I think the idea that someone with down syndrome can't decide things for themselves is wrong. My understanding is that the difference in intelligence for most is not much less than average and the only reason they may seem particularly less bright is because of their communication problems.

 

[Omium]

They had a picture of her (Down syndrome girl) would look like in 23 years time.

not pleasant.

stop posting.

 

[i-love-maynard]

I have a 7 yr old little sister with DS. She is absolutely wonderful how she is, but I seriously doubt she is capable of deciding on something such as plastic surgery. She doesn't communicate well, she can only speak in small sentences and has trouble expressing small things such as what she would like for breakfast. But she was diagnosed as having mild Down Syndrome. I put her on her bus every morning and I have observed her classmates who have the same condition. They are worse than her at speaking and expressing themselves. My point is that I don't believe that a child so young with the condition is fit to decide on issues such as plastic surgery. Maybe when they are older, I can't say I personally know any older person with DS and exactly how much they improve.

EDIT: I see your point "youbrokemylife". But from my own experiences with a Down Syndrome child I have never witnessed Ellen scrutinising (sp?) her looks at all or (forgive me please) demonstrating complex thinking. She is a happy kid who dances around, watches her favourite tv shows and likes music, icecream and the pool. She speaks and behaves just like a toddler, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

I'm talking about a 5 year old burn/accident victim. BTW I think the idea that someone with down syndrome can't decide things for themselves is wrong. My understanding is that the difference in intelligence for most is not much less than average and the only reason they may seem particularly less bright is because of their communication problems.

Well in this case I guess the fact that Down Syndrome is something you are born with, and horriffic burns are not, is important. If you get surgery to fix the physical characteristics of DS, it essentially does nothing worthwhile because the person is still going to have it in every sense but the physical so I don't see any real confidence boost that could come from that. Whereas, if you get badly burned and have surgery to fix your scarring and so forth, you are simply trying to get back to what you used to look like, not trying to change the looks you were born with, and once you've been burned, you've been burned. That's it and you can get on with your life. If you've got Down Syndrome, you have it forever, there's no point to cosmetic surgery.

 

[youBROKEmyLIFE]

Well she's 7...

My point for the 5 year olds is that 5 year old accident/burn victims get plastic surgery all the time. What's the difference?

Well in this case I guess the fact that Down Syndrome is something you are born with, and horriffic burns are not, is important......

Whereas, if you get badly burned and have surgery to fix your scarring and so forth, you are simply trying to get back to what you used to look like, not trying to change the looks you were born with, and once you've been burned, you've been burned. That's it and you can get on with your life. If you've got Down Syndrome, you have it forever, there's no point to cosmetic surgery.

Basically what you're saying is that because you weren't born with any problems you can fix them up if they arise but if you're born with them you have to accept them? Do you have any reason why?

If you get surgery to fix the physical characteristics of DS, it essentially does nothing worthwhile because the person is still going to have it in every sense but the physical so I don't see any real confidence boost that could come from that.

Well while they're still going to have problems with their condition they won't have to worry so much about people looking at them as something particularly unattractive.