Euthanasia (3 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

Re: Should euthanasia be legalised?

Thing is that alot of these don't always work that way. Every person has a different reaction to things. But ehh.

Well if that's true then I wouldn't support it (I understand no medication will work the same for everyone, but as long as we have reliable methods to determine what will be painless for individual cases then I have no problem), but I'd want to see the medical evidence first.

 

[banco55]

Re: Should euthanasia be legalised?

That and lots and lots and lots of red tape, tests, whatever, before you can actually do it.

I think there's something really sick about a society that has some kind of legal/bureaucratic process for people who want to off themselves. I try to avoid invoking the Nazis but I don't think it's a coincidence that they were the first western society to indulge in euthanasia on a large scale.

 

[Josie]

Re: Should euthanasia be legalised?

And I disagree with you. Isn't opinion a wonderful thing.

There's no legal/bureaucratic boundaries to suicide, if that makes you feel any better. This is regarding assisted suicide, and it's only correct to have guidelines, red tape, etc, because you are helping to end someone elses life, and the state, or whoever has, given permission for this life to be ended. Are you saying there shouldn't be red tape? Euthanasia should be completely unfettered, "hey, I don't feel so good today, someone turn off my life support please"?

Edit: Are you confusing euthanasia (assisted suicide, ie The act or practice of ending the life of an individual suffering from a terminal illness or an incurable condition, as by lethal injection or the suspension of extraordinary medical treatment, a consciously made decision by the patient or family) with the nazi definition of euthanasia, which was the system for systematically killing mental and physically disabled patients WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE AND CONSENT OF THE PATIENT OR THEIR FAMILY?

Because of course I would not sympathise with that kind of euthanasia, and we would never see it in this country, for good reason.

 

[banco55]

Re: Should euthanasia be legalised?

And I disagree with you. Isn't opinion a wonderful thing.

There's no legal/bureaucratic boundaries to suicide, if that makes you feel any better. This is regarding assisted suicide, and it's only correct to have guidelines, red tape, etc, because you are helping to end someone elses life, and the state, or whoever has, given permission for this life to be ended. Are you saying there shouldn't be red tape? Euthanasia should be completely unfettered, "hey, I don't feel so good today, someone turn off my life support please"?

Edit: Are you confusing euthanasia (assisted suicide, ie The act or practice of ending the life of an individual suffering from a terminal illness or an incurable condition, as by lethal injection or the suspension of extraordinary medical treatment, a consciously made decision by the patient or family) with the nazi definition of euthanasia, which was the system for systematically killing mental and physically disabled patients WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE AND CONSENT OF THE PATIENT OR THEIR FAMILY?

Because of course I would not sympathise with that kind of euthanasia, and we would never see it in this country, for good reason.

No I wasn't confusing them I was trying to make a larger point. When Christianity still held sway in Europe the idea of a government sanctioning abortion, euthanasia etc. would have been unthinkable as it was thought to be against god's law, people would go to hell etc. You come to the twentieth century and Christianity is in serious decline and in Germany fascism steps in to fill the vacuum. I'm sure you are familiar with the famous dictum: "if god is dead everything is permitted". What I'm saying is society needs certain 'irrational' taboos and I think the taboo against the government sanctioning euthanasia should remain. By the way we may not be killing retarded infants like the Nazis did but from memory an incredible proportion of fetuses with downs syndrome are aborted. I guess aborting them before they are born could be seen as more efficient than waiting until they are born.

 

[P_Dilemma]

Re: Should euthanasia be legalised?

If/when you become old and living becomes a physical pain you would probably be considering euthanasia/assisted suicide too. If talking hurts, breathing hurts, moving hurts, seeing your loved ones cry for you hurts, then where/what is the point of living any longer?

And for all those people who aggressively push that "life is worth more than that": Well, what is it worth, when you're at such a stage? If life is killing you, you are probably better of dead than dying.

-P_D

 

[Josie]

Re: Should euthanasia be legalised?

No I wasn't confusing them I was trying to make a larger point. When Christianity still held sway in Europe the idea of a government sanctioning abortion, euthanasia etc. would have been unthinkable as it was thought to be against god's law, people would go to hell etc. You come to the twentieth century and Christianity is in serious decline and in Germany fascism steps in to fill the vacuum. I'm sure you are familiar with the famous dictum: "if god is dead everything is permitted". What I'm saying is society needs certain 'irrational' taboos and I think the taboo against the government sanctioning euthanasia should remain. By the way we may not be killing retarded infants like the Nazis did but from memory an incredible proportion of fetuses with downs syndrome are aborted. I guess aborting them before they are born could be seen as more efficient than waiting until they are born.

Believe me, I'm all for the seperation of Church and State. I'd disagree that German Fascism is what we're following in the West at the moment though.
I'm also all for taboos, but not irrational ones that make life very painful for people.

 

[KFunk]

Re: Should euthanasia be legalised?

I think there's something really sick about a society that has some kind of legal/bureaucratic process for people who want to off themselves. I try to avoid invoking the Nazis but I don't think it's a coincidence that they were the first western society to indulge in euthanasia on a large scale.

A person can be pro-euthanasia without promoting "large-scale" euthanasia. A type of case which is commonly cited as a situation where euthanasia is appropriate is the following:

A person has advanced stage bone cancer which has metastasized to other sites in their body. Their prognosis is bleak - it is unlikely that they will live for more than another week. Their cancer is accompanied by intense pain.

The general idea is that the following week is likely to be, on the whole, a negative experience, such that the person is better off not living through it. Of course, the situation is more complicated than a mere matter of 'pain or no pain'. We must consider things like emotional hardship, whether the individual has a need to tie up loose ends (e.g. writing a will) and so on. However, it is likely that there exist circumstances where the individual has been aware of their impending death for some months and that they are at a point of 'waiting for the inevitable'. It is my feeling that if such an individual would rather die with ease through drug injection than suffer a slow, painful death then euthanasia is appropriate. At the very least, I would argue that euthanasia isn't wrong in such a situation.

Whether euthanasia should be legalised is another matter of course, since it involves weighing up the potential negative effects such a law could have. I agree with NTB in feeling that if euthanasia is to be legalised then we should put in plenty of precautions to prevent it from being applied in a hasty or whimsical fashion (as has perhaps been the case in the netherlands? I believe bshoc brought this up).

As a more general question for discussion - does anyone think that it is possible to come to a rational decision to commit suicide? (if so, do you have any examples? such as my one above).

 

[banco55]

Re: Should euthanasia be legalised?

If/when you become old and living becomes a physical pain you would probably be considering euthanasia/assisted suicide too. If talking hurts, breathing hurts, moving hurts, seeing your loved ones cry for you hurts, then where/what is the point of living any longer?

And for all those people who aggressively push that "life is worth more than that": Well, what is it worth, when you're at such a stage? If life is killing you, you are probably better of dead than dying.

-P_D

I'm sure in that situation I'd be considering suicide. There's some evidence that doctors have quietly helped large numbers of people die. There's a big difference between a doctor or a family member quietly helping somone die and the government/state sanctioning/facilitating it.

 

[lengy]

Re: Should euthanasia be legalised?

Is this the thread of the involuntary termination of another's existence, if so you have my vote.

Oh... I also agree if it's voluntary, but that just takes away the fun.

 

[dieburndie]

Re: Should euthanasia be legalised?

See: Netherlands.

Please explain further why the situation in the Netherlands indicates that euthanasia shouldn't be legalised.

No it shouldn't be. There are piratical reasons like how old people who feel they are a burden on their family may feel 'obligated' to opt for euthanasia.

In the Netherlands, Belgium and Oregon there are extremely strict guidelines that need to be adhered to before assisted suicide is legal. If euthanasia was legalised here it would be under similar circumstances. The old people in question would have to be terminally ill with no prospect of improvement. Also, if someone was willing to die because they didn't want to be a burden on their family, then they obviously don't place much value on their own life anyway. I don't really see why their death would be such a large issue in this instance.

But there are also more abstract reasons like how it would be yet another blow against the sanctity of life and breaking another taboo etc.

Oh right, I didn't realise abstract was a synonym for completely fucking retarded. Breaking a taboo? People not wanting to talk about something is a reason to keep it illegal?

 

[withoutaface]

Re: Should euthanasia be legalised?

Absolutely. If I'm old, sick and dying and I make a decision that I want someone to pull the plug, it'd be an absolute travesty for the government to prevent me excercising my most basic right of all, that my body is mine and mine alone.

 

[Optophobia]

Re: Should euthanasia be legalised?

Your body is mine as well sometimes withoutaface.

Thank god for Rohypnol.

 

[banco55]

Re: Should euthanasia be legalised?

.
Oh right, I didn't realise abstract was a synonym for completely fucking retarded. Breaking a taboo? People not wanting to talk about something is a reason to keep it illegal?

I'm not referring to "not wanting to talk about it". I am saying that up until maybe 30 years ago in the west legalising euthanasia would have been nearly unthinkable. In the last 30-40 years the west has broken umpteen "taboos". I think we should take a deep breath before we go and break another one before the law of unforseeen consequences bites us in the ass.

 

[Josie]

Re: Should euthanasia be legalised?

In the last 30-40 years the west has broken umpteen "taboos". I think we should take a deep breath before we go and break another one before the law of unforseeen consequences bites us in the ass.

That's called progress
And I agree, we should think about it very seriously. But accusing people of being nazi's and fascists just because they're trying to rethink some of our more irrelevant taboos is pretty stupid.

 

[HotShot]

Re: Should euthanasia be legalised?

I am all for euthanasia.

I think people should have the right to suicide in the right circumstances. At the same time I realise legalising opens up exploitations.

But seriouslyt I think it is a person's right to terminate themselves or give that righ to their carer when they under hardcore pain and the chances of a cure to the disease are slim.

there were numerous in articles in the SMH on Euthanasia, about how old folk have to go to Sweden or Norway and pay 10k just to get it done.

 

[ur_inner_child]

Re: Should euthanasia be legalised?

I am all for euthanasia, so long as the process is clear (ie what should happen in varying situations) and that there is no room for any corrupted medical diagnosis and/or advice.

Also, if the patient is aware (ie not brain dead), he or she must go through a bit of counselling. I would be far too concerned of the patient's state of mind - You have to wonder whether the patient is actually expressing their desires, or if its their medication/depression talking.

 

[wheredanton]

Re: Should euthanasia be legalised?

When a patient nears death they are usually given enough morphine for it to be considered Euthanasia.

 

[dieburndie]

Re: Should euthanasia be legalised?

I'm not referring to "not wanting to talk about it". I am saying that up until maybe 30 years ago in the west legalising euthanasia would have been nearly unthinkable.

So? That doesn't really mean anything unless they had valid reasons for it being "nearly unthinkable"

In the last 30-40 years the west has broken umpteen "taboos". I think we should take a deep breath before we go and break another one before the law of unforseeen consequences bites us in the ass.

If the taboos have no logical basis then I don't see a problem with breaking as many as is required.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Re: Should euthanasia be legalised?

I am all for euthanasia, so long as the process is clear (ie what should happen in varying situations) and that there is no room for any corrupted medical diagnosis and/or advice.

Heh. It's interesting, but proves nothing, to compare that scenario to no doubt what some people must have been thinking when they first came up with surgery (if it was something that was just "come up with"). Would people have had the same reservations regarding surgery concerning corrupted medical diagnosis and/or advice? Is that really a reason to outright ban the practise all together?

 

[ur_inner_child]

Re: Should euthanasia be legalised?

Oh. A tad extreme there. I merely meant doctors being lazy and not doing everything they can, and although rare, if I were a patient's (who is basically a vegetable) next of kin, I would merely like to hear a second opinion. That's not at all from mistrust, but to make sure the decision I make is right.

Anyway, again, I'm pretty pro-euthanasia. I'm just a worried little cookie. Legalising it must mean it needs a lot of precautions thrown in.