few questions on acturial studies (1 Viewer)

[Pwnage101]

Just wondering - why would you do Actuarial Studies at UNSW when Macquarie seems a lot better for that area? Firstly, Macq's Actuarial program has been around for like 50 years, while UNSW's is <10, and if you do a double degree with Actuarial at Macquare then you get exemptions from Part 1 and 2 from the Actuary Institute thingo (as opposed to only getting a Part 1 exemption from UNSW).

if you do a double degree at UNSW you also gain exepmption from Pat II aswell, don't you?

i was thinking of doing either Comm/Eng (majoring in catuarial and civil) or Comm/Sci (majoring in actuarial and maths)

i realised comm/eng would probably be too much of a workload, and not very useful, cause you're either an engineer or ana ctuary, and if you want to combine engineering with commerce, you might as well major in something like finance

so now, i'ms eriously considering Comm/Sci with actuarial and the science major as maths...could people who know other doing Comm (act)/Sci tell me how they are going, whether they like it, whether they think it is helpful, or is it better doing honours year ina ctuarial to gain the exemption??

any help would be appreciated

 

[Poad]

if you do a double degree at UNSW you also gain exepmption from Pat II aswell, don't you?

Hmm, I was under the impression you won't get Part II exemptions unless you did it through the Co-Op Scholarship.

 

[cyl123]

if you do a double degree at UNSW you also gain exepmption from Pat II aswell, don't you?

i was thinking of doing either Comm/Eng (majoring in catuarial and civil) or Comm/Sci (majoring in actuarial and maths)

i realised comm/eng would probably be too much of a workload, and not very useful, cause you're either an engineer or ana ctuary, and if you want to combine engineering with commerce, you might as well major in something like finance

so now, i'ms eriously considering Comm/Sci with actuarial and the science major as maths...could people who know other doing Comm (act)/Sci tell me how they are going, whether they like it, whether they think it is helpful, or is it better doing honours year ina ctuarial to gain the exemption??

any help would be appreciated

I've finished first year of Comm/Sci at UNSW in majors you have mentioned and I am doing fine in it. It may be more work than just straight commerce degree (18hrs vs 12 hrs in first year) but I found the program quite useful. Certain concepts in Maths for actuaries overlap with discrete maths (a cool course you do for maths major) so you get a small advantage (esp. in learning new uni maths notation). Doing maths also develops your logical thinking skills more through more rigourous derivations of theorems, which is much more useful in actuarial studies than just memorising formulas and concepts. Also, the science major allows you to do a computing elective if you wish, which i found to be tedious, but rewarding as when doing computing work in maths and actuarial studies, the programming skills gained from computing are relevant. i would recommend doing Comm/Sci program and from your hsc marks, i'm sure you would be competent enough to excel in this program. My marks were not as good as yours in the hsc and i am maintaining an HD average so it should be easy for you.

Btw, getting part ii in UNSW required getting all part i exemptions (70+ in most actuarial courses). you can get part ii in both unsw and macquarie through double degrees. personally, unsw gives you much more range of alternatives to choose from if you feel like dropping actuarial, but i may be a bit biased in this regard =) .

 

[Pwnage101]

I've finished first year of Comm/Sci at UNSW in majors you have mentioned and I am doing fine in it. It may be more work than just straight commerce degree (18hrs vs 12 hrs in first year) but I found the program quite useful. Certain concepts in Maths for actuaries overlap with discrete maths (a cool course you do for maths major) so you get a small advantage (esp. in learning new uni maths notation). Doing maths also develops your logical thinking skills more through more rigourous derivations of theorems, which is much more useful in actuarial studies than just memorising formulas and concepts. Also, the science major allows you to do a computing elective if you wish, which i found to be tedious, but rewarding as when doing computing work in maths and actuarial studies, the programming skills gained from computing are relevant. i would recommend doing Comm/Sci program and from your hsc marks, i'm sure you would be competent enough to excel in this program. My marks were not as good as yours in the hsc and i am maintaining an HD average so it should be easy for you.

Btw, getting part ii in UNSW required getting all part i exemptions (70+ in most actuarial courses). you can get part ii in both unsw and macquarie through double degrees. personally, unsw gives you much more range of alternatives to choose from if you feel like dropping actuarial, but i may be a bit biased in this regard =) .

[bored of studies being down ahas made me think more and more about macq vs UNSW for actuarial]

basically ive decided Comm / Sci majoring in actuarial and mathematics - so you are sure u get part II exemptions in 4th year of this double degree???

also, i'm confused as to whether to go to Macq or UNSW - ive received scholarship offers to both (10 K @ UNSW and 12 K @ Macq) - i've heard macq is better and older, but is harder

so my Q IS what does UNSW offer in its maths/actuarial double degree that macquarie doesn't? why should i study @ UNSW?

(yes i've read the gazzillion macq vs UNSW threads, but i'm still undecided)

thx

 

[wrong_turn]

pwnage101, if you've read all the threads of unsw vs macq, what makes you think that your thread should be the deciding thread that concludes the age long battle? [i.e. same arguments, same views, same put downs and then it will most likely lead to you making the final decision anyway]

 

[dvse]

[bored of studies being down ahas made me think more and more about macq vs UNSW for actuarial]

so my Q IS what does UNSW offer in its maths/actuarial double degree that macquarie doesn't? why should i study @ UNSW?

(yes i've read the gazzillion macq vs UNSW threads, but i'm still undecided)

thx

For the actl program, in terms of employment, no one really cares whether you went to mq or UNSW (or ANU etc) as long as your grades are good. As for the teaching quality, having seen courses in both, I wouldn't say there is a great deal of difference, perhaps an edge to mq. In general, actuarial curriculum is in dire need of reform and 80+% of the stuff is ballast that has no other use but preventing too many people from getting the qualification.

However, since you want to combine with maths (good choice btw, but make sure to stick to pure subjects), there is really no other option in Sydney than UNSW, since other departments (and mq in particular) simply don't have the depth and offer few advanced courses at third year level and above.

 

[schmeichung]

Personally I don't think decision on MACQ or UNSW is relevant as long as you are good enough to gain all exemptions and get good marks. Gaining exemptions already implied you are good enough to proceed as an actuary. The real question to you (I get this impression after 3 years of actuarial study + 1 year actuarial work) is why you want to study actuarial. Do you really want to be an actuary? What's so good about actuarial?

PS. I studied actuarial @ UNSW

 

[lyounamu]

Wow, there is a lot of input here. Thanks guys! (even though I didn't ask the question, I am sure it wiill come VERY HANDY for me next year).

 

[Pwnage101]

see wrong_turn, this thread helped namu out as well :wave:

i am fairly certain i want to be an actuary - i want to apply high level maths in a commerce environment

so i'm gettingt the sense from here and other threads UNSW has a better maths dept., but macq's actuarial course is seen as better generally

dvse, i understand ur point, but doing a double degree is mainly to gain part I and II exemptions, so doing 'advanced' math subjects, although appealing to me (as a person who has an interest in mathematics), is not essential

schmeichung - were u part of the CO-OP program, or not?

i'm leaning more to macquarie, thx for you input guys!

 

[lyounamu]

see wrong_turn, this thread helped namu out as well :wave:

i am fairly certain i want to be an actuary - i want to apply high level maths in a commerce environment

so i'm gettingt the sense from here and other threads UNSW has a better maths dept., but macq's actuarial course is seen as better generally

dvse, i understand ur point, but doing a double degree is mainly to gain part I and II exemptions, so doing 'advanced' math subjects, although appealing to me (as a person who has an interest in mathematics), is not essential

schmeichung - were u part of the CO-OP program, or not?

i'm leaning more to macquarie, thx for you input guys!

Hahaha...yeah, it certainly helps me.

BTW, you may consider other factors such as distance as well or the university environment.

 

[Pwnage101]

distance - UNSW is further than Macq, especially when the new train station opens in the next couple of months @ macquarie!

Uni environment - well UNSW has better buildings, gotta give it that, and is a member of teh Go8 - a very modern campus. Macquarie is more open, lots of green (and a lake), new library in <2 years - however overall, i rekon UNSW would win in this category

 

[dvse]

i am fairly certain i want to be an actuary - i want to apply high level maths in a commerce environment

so i'm gettingt the sense from here and other threads UNSW has a better maths dept., but macq's actuarial course is seen as better generally

dvse, i understand ur point, but doing a double degree is mainly to gain part I and II exemptions, so doing 'advanced' math subjects, although appealing to me (as a person who has an interest in mathematics), is not essential

Actuaries don't really apply high level maths as a rule (if for no other reason that they don't know it) - what they do is limited to pretty basic statistics - also acutarial major is taught in such a way that it's just no possible to really understand what's going on (eg. the stochastic processes and the attempt to derive Black-Scholes), you are effectively reduced to memorizing formulas.


The only people in finance who do use high level maths (although a small subset) are so called 'quants' working in IBs, some hedge funds etc. The industry is not looking very healthy at the moment, of course, but it would be foolish not to expect some sort of recovery in 4+ years. Here you will need all the maths background you can get, some experience with computing and numerical methods would help too.


My advice would be to hedge your bets and plan to do honours in maths (I think they call this advanced science at UNSW?) - it will open up your choices quite a bit. Also it may not look like this now, but one extra year of study means NOTHING (especially if you have a scholarship) and you will never have a chance to elarn the material once you go to the industry.

 

[chapm0n]

ah yes, just to elaborate on dvse if you want to use mathematics in the finance industry UNSW just opened a new major for advance mathematics/science just for that, called Quantitative Risk, i advice you look into it.

The program also have a few actuary subjects as well (just to confuse you even more )

School of Mathematics and Statistics - In Advanced Mathematics and Advanced Science)

however to do QR (quantitative risk) you need permission, its for people who want to do maths, not commerce theory stuff.

If you're gonna hate commerce (like me) then you may wish you enrolled in QR program instead

 

[dvse]

ah yes, just to elaborate on dvse if you want to use mathematics in the finance industry UNSW just opened a new major for advance mathematics/science just for that, called Quantitative Risk, i advice you look into it.

QR looks to me just like a cynical attempt by the school of maths to fight low enrollments by repackaging the stats major. You get virtually the same stuff by doing Finance/Maths.

If you want to actually understand your models, do pure - you can then easily figure out the applications on your own.

Graham's essay says it better than I could:

What You'll Wish You'd Known

 

[Pwnage101]

yeh, thx for the info guys!!! looks like UNSW is the place to be for maths (although i always thought [perhaps wrongly, now that i look back at it] that USYD had a better maths department)

i'll do some thinking over the next week, and will be attending Info Day at UNSW and Macquarie for some last minute questions

 

[dvse]

yeh, thx for the info guys!!! looks like UNSW is the place to be for maths (although i always thought [perhaps wrongly, now that i look back at it] that USYD had a better maths department)

i'll do some thinking over the next week, and will be attending Info Day at UNSW and Macquarie for some last minute questions

No probs. Actually, I'm probably biased on UNSW vs USyd, although the former does objectively offer more courses.

 

[wrong_turn]

pwnage101, maybe after being on this forum for as long and being at uni for as long, you may begin to see the trends that i presented earlier. it may not be exact but its probably been covered in a thread which namu has not read.

 

[Pwnage101]

yeh i see the trends, although ive gained a greater understanding of UNSW maths, and have taken this into consideration now

 

[wrong_turn]

pwnage101 i like your style. hope to see you at uni next year =)

 

[keithmoon]

hi
1) in order to do actuarial studies in UNSW do u need 2 go to an interview?
2) can a person with a uai of lower the 95 cope with acturial studies?
3) wat do u need 2 get in maths to do gud in the subject?
thanks

1. Only if you're doing co-op interview.
2. The odds are against you, sorry.
3. I'd say at least 95 or 43 in 3U...that's a rough guess.

Your UAI amounts to shit in terms of whether or not you'll cope in actuarial...

UAI is a general indication of how well one would perform in actuarial studies. Students with UAI below 97 tend to struggle. So, your statement is a crock of self-righteous shit.

i got 94.9 but i can get 5 bonus points, is it likely that ill get in? i did maths ext 1 and got 39, can i handle actuary?

I hate to put anyone down, but I think it's worse to give people false hope. I wouldn't pick actuarial studies if I were you, since 39 is a really low mark for actuarial studies and 3U maths in comparison is VERY straightforward.

is the job opportunity for the course high?

Speaking from students' perspective (i.e. an aspiring actuary-to-be), job opportunities are readily available to those who are able and capable. The mediocre would have more trouble finding a relevant role, and the rest...they wouldn't have a chance. I guess it's the same like most other careers....very competitive.

Just wondering - why would you do Actuarial Studies at UNSW when Macquarie seems a lot better for that area? Firstly, Macq's Actuarial program has been around for like 50 years, while UNSW's is <10, and if you do a double degree with Actuarial at Macquare then you get exemptions from Part 1 and 2 from the Actuary Institute thingo (as opposed to only getting a Part 1 exemption from UNSW).

Speaking from an unbiased view, Macquarie is definitely the place to study if you are serious about actuarial studies. Having said that, many people aren't serious about the course, in the sense that they know it'll be hard, and they'll give it a try to see how it goes, and since it turns out hard they drop it. That's a waste of time. By serious, I mean you're willing to work hard and stay the full duration and work towards your desired qualifications. I chose UNSW simply because Macquarie is too far for me, and has a better overall reputation than Macquarie. But again, if you're serious about Actuarial Studies, Macquarie is definitely the place to be.

To help you decide, if you want to be an actuary, go to Macquarie. If you want to study actuarial studies, go to UNSW. Me...I want to be an actuary, and I go to UNSW. That's how cool I am...

also, i'm confused as to whether to go to Macq or UNSW - ive received scholarship offers to both (10 K @ UNSW and 12 K @ Macq) - i've heard macq is better and older, but is harder

so my Q IS what does UNSW offer in its maths/actuarial double degree that macquarie doesn't? why should i study @ UNSW?

I am assuming you're not talking about co-op scholarship. In any case, I won't be able to help you decide with the additional factor of scholarship.

if you do a double degree at UNSW you also gain exepmption from Pat II aswell, don't you?

For a double degree of Comm/Sci, there are two ways to gain entry to (and hopefully exemption from) Part II subjects.
1. Get all your part I exemptions
2. Get most of your part I exemptions with a maximum of 1 part I subject remaining, with 3 months of relevant work experience such as in an actuarial analyst role.

i was thinking of doing either Comm/Eng (majoring in catuarial and civil) or Comm/Sci (majoring in actuarial and maths)

i realised comm/eng would probably be too much of a workload, and not very useful, cause you're either an engineer or ana ctuary, and if you want to combine engineering with commerce, you might as well major in something like finance

I agree with you.

so now, i'ms eriously considering Comm/Sci with actuarial and the science major as maths...could people who know other doing Comm (act)/Sci tell me how they are going, whether they like it, whether they think it is helpful, or is it better doing honours year ina ctuarial to gain the exemption??

I'm doing comm/sci, this year my 4th. I obtained all my part I exemptions and am doing Part II this year. How I find the courses?

Well...I am so glad my part I's are over! It's very rewarding once you get it out of the way. Part II's should be okay. I am dreading part IIIs.

I'm knocked, no more answering.