Flag Burners (2 Viewers)

[lexie85]

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If these 'Australians with lebanese backgrounds' don't want to be seen as foreigners, then why do they call themselves Lebanese Australians? Either you're Australian or you're not. If they can't make up their mind, then maybe they should think about it over a nice hot baklava.

i think in that case people should never ask the question' "what nationality are you?" because even when u say "australian" i've seen people saw "nah, what country are you from" fuckin retards so u cant blame people for sticking lebanese/wateva in front of australian

Again, you miss the point. When he speaks, he does so on behalf of the entire muslim community. When Ken Moroney speaks, he does so on behalf of the entire NSW Police. When ACM Houston speaks, he does so on behalf of the ADF. When your principal talks, they do so on behalf of the entire school. It is the exact same principle. When the Cleric talks about women and refers to them as "Uncovered meat" which the cats (muslims) then come and eat (rape) and blames this on the meat (women), he is peaking on behalf of the muslim community, whether they agree with him or not.

but his not speaking the right thing so you cant talk about the entire community

Aryanbeauty, I think you're my new best friend.

oh god, i hope u can make a better argument then him

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

Quote:
Again, you miss the point. When he speaks, he does so on behalf of the entire muslim community. When Ken Moroney speaks, he does so on behalf of the entire NSW Police. When ACM Houston speaks, he does so on behalf of the ADF. When your principal talks, they do so on behalf of the entire school. It is the exact same principle. When the Cleric talks about women and refers to them as "Uncovered meat" which the cats (muslims) then come and eat (rape) and blames this on the meat (women), he is peaking on behalf of the muslim community, whether they agree with him or not.

Umm...No. He has been denounced by many members of the muslim community, and some of them have even joined the calls to have him deported. He doesn't speak for the whole community, he's merely at the top of the hierachy expressing his opinion.

 

[_dhj_]

That is definately an absurd comparison. The a head cleric does not speak on behalf of all muslims, because the "muslim community" is neither institutional nor hierarchical in nature, unlike the examples pollifax mentioned.

 

[ur_inner_child]

If these 'Australians with lebanese backgrounds' don't want to be seen as foreigners, then why do they call themselves Lebanese Australians? Either you're Australian or you're not. If they can't make up their mind, then maybe they should think about it over a nice hot baklava.

That's not for an egotistic reason like you've tried to make it out to be. In most cases, saying "Lebanese Australians" is being politically correct.

Much like calling someone "african american".

 

[HotShot]

No one said that the sacrifices of soldiers are limited to the 'piece of cloth'. In most parks you can find a cenotaph (probably graffitid by some stoned little prick) in som eyou can find memorial gates, in all RSLs there is an Honour Roll, and if you've been to Canberra, you may have heard of something called "The Australian War Memorial".

You can also find graveyards all around the country.

The 'piece of cloth', however represents the nation. As I have said before, it represents everything that goes together to make our nation and it represents the nation as a whole. To burn it is to tell people visually that you want to burn the nation.

can you burn the nation? by burning a flag?. yes it does represent the nation - thats its purpose nothing more + nothing else.

Of course I can make that comparison. Are you saying that it is justifiable from the fact that they were born in Australia, but they have a different heritage? Oh I see how it works. So if my parents migrated to Lebanon before I was born, I'd be free to burn Lebanese flags until the cows come home.

freedom. if the flag is yours by all means you have every right to burn whatever flag you want.

If these 'Australians with lebanese backgrounds' don't want to be seen as foreigners, then why do they call themselves Lebanese Australians? Either you're Australian or you're not. If they can't make up their mind, then maybe they should think about it over a nice hot baklava.

Australia is mulitcutural - recognising someone as lebanese australia or indian australia is very important as you are acknowledging their background. in australia people value differences, uniqueness - thats the beauty of this country.

Also, don't make out that the Cronulla riots were incited by Australians because they simply weren't. I gave a presentation on the riots to my legal studies class and a source of information was first hand from a cop who was there. There is no doubt that it was started by the 'ethnic party' (We need to be politically correct now don't we). And don't anyone dare say "ofcourse the police would say that. they're being racist".

lol why cant i say the police werent rascist? after all recently an aboriginal was killed in prison by a police officer. why do you make assumptions with no backing? what makes you think that police officers are not racists, what makes you think that i am rasicst or not rascist - you dont know for sure. thats gud mate - get a cop to do your assignment for you.

As I'm sure I've stated, there is no reason to burn a flag (the most solemn and highest symbol of our nation) in order to protest anything, ever. The political process is free enough that protests can be done in a sensible manner.

The highest symbol of this nation is not he flag - its the people who represent thi country. the way we act in our country and in other countries. We are the primary and highest symbols of this country. Without the people there is no symbol and no country. The flag is jjust an accessory.

That's not his point. The point is, you don't hear about when white Australians attack Lebanese/Muslims etc, it is always the other way around. Why? Because it happens like that more often.

U do hear about - what are you talking about. You hear about white austalians speeding, taking drugs, robbing old grannies etc.

Again, you miss the point. When he speaks, he does so on behalf of the entire muslim community. When Ken Moroney speaks, he does so on behalf of the entire NSW Police. When ACM Houston speaks, he does so on behalf of the ADF. When your principal talks, they do so on behalf of the entire school. It is the exact same principle. When the Cleric talks about women and refers to them as "Uncovered meat" which the cats (muslims) then come and eat (rape) and blames this on the meat (women), he is peaking on behalf of the muslim community, whether they agree with him or not.

well no he is not, he is a priest - just he speaks on his beliefs and faith rather the other peoples belief. Basically he is giving is viewpoint.

What the hell are you talking about? Not only does this have nothing to do with flag burning, the Israeli Home Guard (Under the IDF) is the most elite fighting force in the world. They never got 'hammered' by any guerilla army. They were getting in strife for bombing the fuck out of the insolent shits and teaching them a lesson, which, on a smaller scale, is happening right here right now. Anyone who wants to teach punks a lesson, end up getting in shit themselves.

they absolutely lost the war and achieved nothing, apart from international condemnation. they might be elite army - but the way conducted the war was inhumaneas they have admitted.

hey, what about that Israeli President - accused of rape + harassment representative of all israelis - and that all israelis are rapists after he is the president isnt he?

You both are making extremely good points. Aryanbeauty, I think you're my new best friend.

thats a quick way to make a friend. gee.

Read the following poem, and understand what its trying to say:

Poems can interpreted in many different ways, i.e feminists perspective, marxist etc.
so theres is no point 'trying to understand' it.

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

thats a quick way to make a friend. gee.



Poems can interpreted in many different ways, i.e feminists perspective, marxist etc.
so theres is no point 'trying to understand' it.

You don't need to disagree with every line of the poster you are arguing with. "fancy making a friend who shares the same views as you" OMG how strange is dat!!!
I can interperate your views in many different ways, so why do I bother trying to understand them?

 

[HotShot]

You don't need to disagree with every line of the poster you are arguing with. "fancy making a friend who shares the same views as you" OMG how strange is dat!!!
I can interperate your views in many different ways, so why do I bother trying to understand them?

yeah i mean he suddenly becomes your best friend just over the forum. just over a few minutes.

indeed you can my interpret my posts in different ways - and people do thats why we are debating in here. whether u can be bother to understand ornot is entirely up to you.

but i am not going to read poems - that clearly are a joke.

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

yeah i mean he suddenly becomes your best friend just over the forum. just over a few minutes.

indeed you can my interpret my posts in different ways - and people do thats why we are debating in here. whether u can be bother to understand ornot is entirely up to you.

but i am not going to read poems - that clearly are a joke.

It wasn't that long a poem Hotshot, you can read it through, I have faith in you.

I believe the 'best friend' comment was merely an expression meaning:
"I really agree with you"

Grow up Hotshot.

 

[agent_pollifax]

You can also find graveyards all around the country.

Exactly my point, but I wasn't going to list every way that diggers are venerated in this nation.

can you burn the nation? by burning a flag?. yes it does represent the nation - thats its purpose nothing more + nothing else.

I said that it shows people you want to burn the nation. It's symbollic. Ofcourse it represents the nation. That's my point. The fact that it represents the nation is the entire reason that it is attrocious to burn it.

freedom. if the flag is yours by all means you have every right to burn whatever flag you want.

That's funny. Who did the flag belong to in this particular incident? That's right. It wasn't his. He stole it from the property of an organisation made up of people who proudly fought under that flag. So, if we have the freedom to burn our flag, what gives him the right to burn someone else's flag?

Australia is mulitcutural - recognising someone as lebanese australia or indian australia is very important as you are acknowledging their background. in australia people value differences, uniqueness - thats the beauty of this country.

Yes, Australia is multicultural. We are multicultural in the fact that we accept people from all over the world - For those who come across the seas, we've boundless plains to share - But when these people finish their citizenship ceremony, the government representative says "welcome, the newest Australians" they don't say "welcome, newest varied group of Australians with mixed and diverse heritage" from that ceremony onwards they are Australians. For some reason though, they are not proud to be Australian and they rebel against the nation that has given them and their forebears so much. There must be a reason why they migrated here in the first place. If it's such a cess pit, why did they bother?

lol why cant i say the police werent rascist? after all recently an aboriginal was killed in prison by a police officer. why do you make assumptions with no backing? what makes you think that police officers are not racists, what makes you think that i am rasicst or not rascist - you dont know for sure. thats gud mate - get a cop to do your assignment for you.

Did you overdose on stupidity? Do you know why the Aboriginal was killed in custody? Reseach it and you will definitely find that it wasn't murder - just like when any cop has to kill to protect themselves.

I bet you're so dense that light bends around you. This is shown by your last sentence in that quote. I was getting first hand reseach, numbnuts. Did I plagiarise when I got second hand research from papers and the internet? Did you not gather information when you did assignments? Think before you start mashing the keyboard, sounding like a door to door shit salesman with a mouthful of samples.

The highest symbol of this nation is not he flag - its the people who represent thi country. the way we act in our country and in other countries. We are the primary and highest symbols of this country. Without the people there is no symbol and no country. The flag is jjust an accessory.

People are not a symbol. People are people. A group of people, say in an advertisement, may allude to something, but people are not symbol. People make up the nation, which is represented by a symbol, being the flag and the coat of arms.

That raises an interesting point too. If I own a coat of arms, can I smash it up in the middle of Canberra? In fact, why don't I follow this guy's lead and steal the one from parliament house, smash it up in public and throw the remnants in the pool of remembrance? Sound good? Hell, I'll probably be made a hero by some of the people here.

U do hear about - what are you talking about. You hear about white austalians speeding, taking drugs, robbing old grannies etc.

That has less point than a bowling ball. I didn't say white Australians don't commit crime. Read stuff before you quote it.

well no he is not, he is a priest - just he speaks on his beliefs and faith rather the other peoples belief. Basically he is giving is viewpoint.

You would be right, if the cleric was sitting in his house having elevensies with the missus when he said it, but he said it in an atmosphere where he is the boss and his word is meant to guide the people listening. Do you understand?

they absolutely lost the war and achieved nothing, apart from international condemnation. they might be elite army - but the way conducted the war was inhumaneas they have admitted.

Before the war, they had been provoked numerous times and they let it slide pretty much. Hezbollah and Palestine, along with other countries such as Egypt have been constanstly hammering Israel for almost 60 years. Israel has done little about it. It's like a kid at school. Israel is the new kid, superior to the others but quiet. He gets picked on his entire life, when suddenly he snaps. Sadly, because all the anger is released at once, that's when the teachers on play ground duty see him and he gets in trouble instead of the real bullies.

hey, what about that Israeli President - accused of rape + harassment representative of all israelis - and that all israelis are rapists after he is the president isnt he?

That's twisting it. The cleric didn't rape a woman (that I know of), he proclaimed that scantily clad Australian women are asking to be raped, and that it isn't the fault of the muslims who rape them, it is the fault of the women.

The President did not say "Hey everyone, let's go gang bang some palestinian hussies" he was, as you said, accused of rape and harrassment. Major diffence.

thats a quick way to make a friend. gee.

I was speaking in jest. We support the same arguments. If you couldn't see that, maybe the special ed HSC would have been more suited for you.

Poems can interpreted in many different ways, i.e feminists perspective, marxist etc.
so theres is no point 'trying to understand' it.

I didn't say analyse it. This isn't English. This is a fiery debate. It doesn't need to be deconstructed and put in perspective. It's telling a story, all you need to do is read it.

but i am not going to read poems - that clearly are a joke.

By saying that, you're showing us that you're a joke and that you aren't even taking this debate seriously. It's a short emotive poem and if you read it, it might open your eyes a bit.

It wasn't that long a poem Hotshot, you can read it through, I have faith in you.

I believe the 'best friend' comment was merely an expression meaning:
"I really agree with you"

Grow up Hotshot.

ElendilPeredhil, you can be my friend too.

 

[_dhj_]

That's funny. Who did the flag belong to in this particular incident? That's right. It wasn't his. He stole it from the property of an organisation made up of people who proudly fought under that flag. So, if we have the freedom to burn our[/q] flag, what gives him the right to burn someone else's flag?

The issue is whether flag burning should be illegalised, not whether stealing should be a crime.

Yes, Australia is multicultural. We are multicultural in the fact that we accept people from all over the world - For those who come across the seas, we've boundless plains to share - But when these people finish their citizenship ceremony, the government representative says "welcome, the newest Australians" they don't say "welcome, newest varied group of Australians with mixed and diverse heritage" from that ceremony onwards they are Australians. For some reason though, they are not proud to be Australian and they rebel against the nation that has given them and their forebears so much. There must be a reason why they migrated here in the first place. If it's such a cess pit, why did they bother?

If you did not understand the term "multiculturalism", you could have looked it up for the sake of the discussion.

Did you overdose on stupidity?

I bet you're so dense that light bends around you.

numbnuts

maybe the special ed HSC would have been more suited for you.

I can understand that you're only sitting for the HSC this year but one is still expected of some degree of maturity in this forum.

 

[dieburndie]

As well as what dhj said, the argument for the opposing side is basic, and you agent_pollifax have failed to address it.
The flag represents the freedom we have in Australia.
Why shouldn't we have the freedom to burn it?
And by making burning the flag a crime, wouldn't we be going against the values it represents also?

 

[maccaman]

The burning of the flag is a catch 22. I think that while it shouldn't be illegal, it's not ethically correct.

As a citizen of this country I am a servant to it's leaders. That's how it should be, no?

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

The burning of the flag is a catch 22. I think that while it shouldn't be illegal, it's not ethically correct.

As a citizen of this country I am a servant to it's leaders. That's how it should be, no?

Actually as a citizen of this country its leaders should be servants to you.

 

[lexie85]

Yes, Australia is multicultural. We are multicultural in the fact that we accept people from all over the world - For those who come across the seas, we've boundless plains to share - But when these people finish their citizenship ceremony, the government representative says "welcome, the newest Australians" they don't say "welcome, newest varied group of Australians with mixed and diverse heritage" from that ceremony onwards they are Australians. For some reason though, they are not proud to be Australian and they rebel against the nation that has given them and their forebears so much. There must be a reason why they migrated here in the first place. If it's such a cess pit, why did they bother?

i stick with my previous post

i think in that case people should never ask the question' "what nationality are you?" because even when u say "australian" i've seen people saw "nah, what country are you from" fuckin retards so u cant blame people for sticking lebanese/wateva in front of australian

That's twisting it. The cleric didn't rape a woman (that I know of), he proclaimed that scantily clad Australian women are asking to be raped, and that it isn't the fault of the muslims who rape them, it is the fault of the women.

actually he didnt specify anything about australian women

 

[HotShot]

I was getting first hand reseach, numbnuts. Did I plagiarise when I got second hand research from papers and the internet? Did you not gather information when you did assignments? Think before you start mashing the keyboard, sounding like a door to door shit salesman with a mouthful of samples.

hehe yeah rock up and ask a cop for his viewpoint on an incident and dont bother about asking someone else whom might have differing views - its called bias.

I didnt say anything about plagairising or whatever- i just bagged u out lol.
sad loser.

People are not a symbol. People are people. A group of people, say in an advertisement, may allude to something, but people are not symbol. People make up the nation, which is represented by a symbol, being the flag and the coat of arms.

Oh shit, People are people omfg - noone knew that. When you go overseas and you are tourist and someone asks you where you are from, you will say Australia. From that point onwards u will be symbol of Australia to them. U will represent Australia to them. u dont have aussie flags, jerseys etc etc everywhere in the world.

That raises an interesting point too. If I own a coat of arms, can I smash it up in the middle of Canberra? In fact, why don't I follow this guy's lead and steal the one from parliament house, smash it up in public and throw the remnants in the pool of remembrance? Sound good? Hell, I'll probably be made a hero by some of the people here.

stealing is bad. by all means if the coat of arms was legally bought and u burnt it in your property or elsewhere without damagaing any other person's property by all means go for it.

That has less point than a bowling ball. I didn't say white Australians don't commit crime. Read stuff before you quote it.

No u said that u see a lot arabs committing crime in the newspapares and media. I just said that you also see a lot of 'white australians' doing the same thing.

You would be right, if the cleric was sitting in his house having elevensies with the missus when he said it, but he said it in an atmosphere where he is the boss and his word is meant to guide the people listening. Do you understand?

If you understand the religon of islam - i think they a belief that there is no boss except for GOD. the sheikh might feel as though he is the boss but the fact is he isnt. he just a tard that is a lot dumber than both of us combined.

Before the war, they had been provoked numerous times and they let it slide pretty much. Hezbollah and Palestine, along with other countries such as Egypt have been constanstly hammering Israel for almost 60 years. Israel has done little about it. It's like a kid at school. Israel is the new kid, superior to the others but quiet. He gets picked on his entire life, when suddenly he snaps. Sadly, because all the anger is released at once, that's when the teachers on play ground duty see him and he gets in trouble instead of the real bullies.

regardless dont justify it. the fact is they screwed up big time. and have lost lot of credibility internationally. It would have been better if they handled the situation better - it would resulted in less support for Hezbollah.

That's twisting it. The cleric didn't rape a woman (that I know of), he proclaimed that scantily clad Australian women are asking to be raped, and that it isn't the fault of the muslims who rape them, it is the fault of the women.

Indeed it is, and thats what you are doing as well. See as you said the cleric hasnt raped anyone - and he does have viewpoint that is against rape but he is says if it happens its the womens fault. on the other hand you have a president who does engage in sexual harassment and keeps it all secret - at least with the cleric we know whats going on in his head.

The President did not say "Hey everyone, let's go gang bang some palestinian hussies" he was, as you said, accused of rape and harrassment. Major diffence.

He didnt say it - but he did it.

I was speaking in jest. We support the same arguments. If you couldn't see that, maybe the special ed HSC would have been more suited for you.

I was bagging u lot - LOSER. :rofl: U have to be really sad pathetic wanker to go iin the forums and praise someone for supporting ur views in that manner.

By saying that, you're showing us that you're a joke and that you aren't even taking this debate seriously. It's a short emotive poem and if you read it, it might open your eyes a bit.

No ur a joke - coming with random poems that clearly are subjective in nature and have no value in this debate.

 

[dieburndie]

Hotshot, I don't think many people read your posts.
They're really long and don't go anywhere.
Perhaps you can be more succinct and less of a terrible person yeah?

 

[HotShot]

Hotshot, I don't think many people read your posts.
They're really long and don't go anywhere.
Perhaps you can be more succinct and less of a terrible person yeah?

trust me people read him or at least bits of them - (like u have) and yes they dont like them. I dont like my own posts either.

Just ignore it if you dont like it - but ignore entirely. like dont say i said this and that if you havent read it.

I do try to keep it short its all that quotes and stuff. PLus i use paragraphs unlike some people in this forum.

But yeah if i have time, i will use bullet points, bold headings, Verdana font 12 point size, paragrapsh justified, Colour where appropriate images where appropriate. I will even have a title page - nah just kiddin olol.

no one likes me here anyway. so i dont really care.

 

[agent_pollifax]

It's not called bias. It's called getting as much information as I can. I wasn't going to go to Sydney and try and find a rioter.

People become representatives yes, but not symbols. If I was in England, people wouldn't say "oh he's Australian" by looking at me. By looking at a symbol you can automatically tell what it represents.

I really can't be bothered arguing with you anymore because it just turns into a quotefest and it detracts from the original topic.

You annoy me with your terrible baggings out and senseless crap you rant on about.

Come back to me when you have something relevant and interesting to say. And FYI, the poem may have put it in context for alot of people. That's why I put it there, not so it could look pretty and I get to use the quote function.

Can we please get back to the topic at hand - flag burning.

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

i stick with my previous post


actually he didnt specify anything about australian women

Well he was speaking about women to an Audience of Australian men and women....

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Ah racist? Pulizzzzee. Is that the best you can do? I never blamed muslims/lebs for ALL PROBLEMS. I blame them for the problem they created , no you and other muslims/lebs accuse white australians of racism, I pointed out that it is the lebs/muslims who are racist towards whites. You don't have to tell me you are a lebanese you mentioned that you are a bangladeshi decades ago. Was not author Taslima Nasreen issued fatwa by Islamic cleric in Bangladesh for writing some criticism of Quran? I believe the people of Bangladesh should also be free to burn their Quran, after all its freedom of speech!