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Funding for Rural and Regional Australia (1 Viewer)

Cape

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thorrnydevil said:
More funding for regional areas!
Yes! Cause they are in the midst of the biggest drought and the governments are doing jack all to help them. The prices of petrol doesn't help with the expenses either. I wonder how these people actually make money.
And more needs to be done for sustainable developement so we don't destroy any more of our country.
And they really need to fix the natural water flows in both the murray - darling river and snowy mountains river.
 

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I second what thorny said, for once.
we need more funding!
 

neo o

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Yes! Cause they are in the midst of the biggest drought and the governments are doing jack all to help them.
Why should the government help them?

The prices of petrol doesn't help with the expenses either.
Petrol comapnies have a moral obligation to sell petrol to farmers at a loss amirite?

I wonder how these people actually make money.
Productivity investments, technological investments etc.

And more needs to be done for sustainable developement so we don't destroy any more of our country.
Please list policies that you know of that promote sustainable development. When you've done that, explain why the current policies in place are insufficient. If you're feeling particularly daring, maybe you'd like to compare them to the oppositions policies instead of mouthing off meaningless platitudes.

And they really need to fix the natural water flows in both the murray - darling river and snowy mountains river.
Well, if the Government did that, that'd mean sending less water down the Murray. I thought you wanted the government to do something to help them?

thorrnydevil said:
More funding for regional areas!
GIMME MONEY GOMME MONEY? Reasons, or is that simply asking for too much?

Oh, and @ that article:

"LETS SPEND MONEY ON FINDING OUT HOW WE SPEND MONEY, GREAT IDEA GUYS!"
 
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leetom

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Not living in a real rural area I am not certain of the conditions out there, so tell me about them. Are you lacking decent infrastructure? Basic services? Labor voters?
 

Cape

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Well ... we have a government in the first place to not only control Australia but to provide its citizens with funding for a way of life and infrastructure and financial support in times of trouble.

NSW has the highest tax on petrol in Australia - stupid carr and his money grabbing schemes.

Farmers can't afford to buy new technology when they are hardly making an income from produce now. And nothing can every replace physical labour.

Did Howard say that he was going to continue logging in the Tasman old growth forest??? And Latham wants to stop it??? These are old growth trees and they take 100s of years t grow - plus trees produce oxygen and homes for the animals living in the forest.


The snowy a few years ago was only running at 3% of the normal environmental flow - the reduction of environmental flow causes tudity and ecosystem damage.
 

leetom

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If we were concerned about any chance of receiving less oxygen from the logging of old growth forests, it would be best to cut them all down and just replant them with a single species of fast-growing tree.

It would make Tasmania look bloody awful, destory environemnt for native animals etc and destory its tourism industry, but young, fresh trees would actually produce more oxygen than the old ones, as they're pretty much dead.
 

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neo_o said:
Well, if the Government did that, that'd mean sending less water down the Murray. I thought you wanted the government to do something to help them?
Well it would mean more water down in the Winter, less in the Summer.

As to it not reaching the sea anymore that is the governments fault mainly but also partially due to cities further down the Murray River.

Albury's waste water which is cleaner then what we drink, isn't allowed to be sent down the Murray, instead it is used on wetlands during winter and pine plantations in the summer.

Also on that issue, due to legislation the solid byproduct (a great fertiliser) has to be put into landfill due to state legislation, which adds a fair bit of cost to local farmers.

Don't you just love legislation on how waste water is to be used created by those who live mainly in an area where they pump it out to sea.

On the petrol note, they haven't reduced the cost since their wholesale cost went down, while they increase it inline with increases.

Neo_o we will need to increase funding to rural areas (and I don't mean my city, I mean real rural areas) and more so then fixing up cityrail, or else more farmers will shut down, prices will rise marginally for the supermarkerts to keep surviving, which will increase the price you pay a fair bit.

Unless we want to just import alot more agriculture.

And support to farmers in time of drought etc should work on a system whereby they pay it back (interest free) in good times, just giving them money is pointless, and if they need this money to survive normally, in that they barely make a profit in good times, well then they need to group together and increase prices, or stop farming.
 
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Enlightened_One

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Finally, something.

Funding though is probably not the country's main problem. Though it is needed.

Government bureaucracy is. Because of back flipping antics WorkCover, and Farm Safety etc have strangled the opportunities of farmers. Everything is over regulated making it impossible to do anything. I'm not even game to take my mates around the farm any more (well, my good mates are an exception), because of the way people in power whinge. We're probably at fault if a tree branch falls on somene because we failed to secure it. It's becoming increasingly harder for farmers to employ workers because they have complicated and confusing rules to follow. And what they are expected to do is lacks logic and common sense.

Enough about that, I don't know too much about it because I don't follow any safety procedures (like I'd sue my family), but we probably still could be fined for something or other.

Anyway, another problem is the way the government, both State and Federal, treat farmers. They threaten us with inferior imports and acts such as this Free Trade Deal, which fucked Sugar Can farmers, and not to mention others. Deregulation of the dairy industry closed many farms. Besides that is the unscrupulous methods of retailers. How much do you pay for eggs, chicken, prok, milk, vegetables, steak? Of that the farmer gets ten percent (I'm not certain?). I do know this, the farm gate price for milk was around fifty cents (haven't checked in ages). A chicken farmer earns fifty cents per bird, (check the price of chicken on shelves, along with eveything else). I haven't been to a cattle sale recently, butI know the prices are steady, but somewhere along there is a discrepancy between the farmer's cut, the abbattoirs cut, and the retailer's price. And one of them isn't justifiable. :mad: For more accurate prices check the latest Land Paper. and read the columnist in the letters section. He usually has a good deal to say, most of it right on.

Anyway, the government seems to pushing for more and more people in to jobs that actually produce nothing (lawyers, hairdressers, etc). This country was built on farmers and they are taking the land beneath their feet. But this is not only farmers, it's a lot more than farmers. Some Blue Collar trades ain't faring so well either.

But it seems that this blind pursuit of Capitalism extremes is leading to the detriment of Australia. Once all of us are accountants and shop assistants, what then?

We'll be a country with nothing tangible to trade. We'll be relying so heavily on imports (and Howard is pushing this) that at the first sign of calamity, such as a war (directly affecting Australia, or maybe even indirectly), we lose our imports and then we're fucked.

But moreso, and I'm sure some economist will have a good argument for this. If we end up a country of highly paid professionals and only import, and do not export, won't our dollar sink beyond belief and we'll end up third world.

Still, atleast farmers are finally getting a little financial help....
 

neo o

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They threaten us with inferior imports
What makes you think you deserve to be protected from foreign produce. Foreign goods aren't inferior, and if anything competition only forces you guys to restructure and become more efficient. Personally I believe the huge strides that Australia has made within biological engineering (the way of the future) is partially attributable to the reduction in protectionism which has caused increased investment in agricultural research, creating a new industry.

and acts such as this Free Trade Deal, which fucked Sugar Can farmers, and not to mention others.
World prices of sugar cane are piss poor because Brazil subsidises huge exports which are dumped on world markets for peanuts. Farmers still in sugar should have moved into wheat a long, long time ago. The trade didn't "fuck" sugar cane, they just weren't included btw.

Deregulation of the dairy industry closed many farms.
Usually I'm all for deregulation, in this case I'll conceed your point though. I think deregulation may have actually been detrimental (because basically it has caused milk to be imported from Victoria, which has reduced the quality of the product for consumers).

Besides that is the unscrupulous methods of retailers. How much do you pay for eggs, chicken, prok, milk, vegetables, steak? Of that the farmer gets ten percent (I'm not certain?). I do know this, the farm gate price for milk was around fifty cents (haven't checked in ages). A chicken farmer earns fifty cents per bird, (check the price of chicken on shelves, along with eveything else). I haven't been to a cattle sale recently, butI know the prices are steady, but somewhere along there is a discrepancy between the farmer's cut, the abbattoirs cut, and the retailer's price. And one of them isn't justifiable. :mad:
Tough shit. Retailers make a huge profit, look at textiles, footware and clothing.

Anyway, the government seems to pushing for more and more people in to jobs that actually produce nothing (lawyers, hairdressers, etc).
Service industries are actually huge exports. Tourism, education etc.

This country was built on farmers and they are taking the land beneath their feet. But this is not only farmers, it's a lot more than farmers. Some Blue Collar trades ain't faring so well either.
We can't compete with asian countries in regards to low skill industries, thus government policy has caused low skill industries to restructure and become more competitive, as a side effect of not having any protection upon these industries resources have drifted towards industries that employ highly skilled labour where we have a comparative advantage. I.E. traditional agriculture gives rise to => biotechnology and intensive agriculture without regulation (as mentioned above)

We'll be a country with nothing tangible to trade. We'll be relying so heavily on imports (and Howard is pushing this) that at the first sign of calamity, such as a war (directly affecting Australia, or maybe even indirectly), we lose our imports and then we're fucked.
But moreso, and I'm sure some economist will have a good argument for this. If we end up a country of highly paid professionals and only import, and do not export, won't our dollar sink beyond belief and we'll end up third world.
We export services instead of commodities. btw, hypothetically if our dollar did fall it would actually be good for exporters, since it lowers the price of their good on world markets. So no.

Incidentally, most third world economies rely primarily on agricultural exports.

Cape said:
Well ... we have a government in the first place to not only control Australia but to provide its citizens with funding for a way of life and infrastructure and financial support in times of trouble.

NSW has the highest tax on petrol in Australia - stupid carr and his money grabbing schemes.

Farmers can't afford to buy new technology when they are hardly making an income from produce now. And nothing can every replace physical labour.

Did Howard say that he was going to continue logging in the Tasman old growth forest??? And Latham wants to stop it??? These are old growth trees and they take 100s of years t grow - plus trees produce oxygen and homes for the animals living in the forest.


The snowy a few years ago was only running at 3% of the normal environmental flow - the reduction of environmental flow causes tudity and ecosystem damage.
Wow, you're really bouncing around there, next time try and make a logical, well structured argument so I have something to fucking respond to please.

Xayma said:
Neo_o we will need to increase funding to rural areas (and I don't mean my city, I mean real rural areas) and more so then fixing up cityrail, or else more farmers will shut down, prices will rise marginally for the supermarkerts to keep surviving, which will increase the price you pay a fair bit.

Unless we want to just import alot more agriculture.

And support to farmers in time of drought etc should work on a system whereby they pay it back (interest free) in good times, just giving them money is pointless, and if they need this money to survive normally, in that they barely make a profit in good times, well then they need to group together and increase prices, or stop farming.
If they can't compete, they shouldn't be in business in the first place. The only concession I'm willing to make on this issue is that increased government expenditure on agricultural research would be a good thing, though I think relying on private funding will be sufficient anyway.
 
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Xayma

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Neo_o I think your stance on the milk is a little hypocritical in that while you bitch about lower quality products but state that competition forces restructuring and becoming more efficent. Further emphased in your last paragraph.
 

neo o

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Xayma said:
Neo_o I think your stance on the milk is a little hypocritical in that while you bitch about lower quality products but state that competition forces restructuring and becoming more efficent.
It's not hypocritical, it HAS forced the industry to restructure and become more efficient. You now have intense battery dairies out west instead of the small, family owned coastal dairies of the past.

There has been an increase in efficiency and restructuring, however there are externalities that have reduced the gain from deregulation.
 

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You claim milk imported from Victoria has lowered the quality of the product. I fail to see how it has done so.
 

neo o

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Xayma said:
You claim milk imported from Victoria has lowered the quality of the product. I fail to see how it has done so.
Because it takes half a week to a week longer to reach Sydney and Brisbane? The milk obviously isn't as fresh. If i wanted to get really anal, Albury will suffer a higher rate of cancer as tankers pass through, releasing carcinogens (you guys have a much higher incidence of cancer in Albury than in Wodonga due to this, there have actually been comparisons made :p). Extra tankers also put excess pressure on inland roads, animals are treated poorly in intense battery systems (they don't move basically) etc etc.
 
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Xayma

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It is pasteurised first. It has an adequate shelf life to survive the extra half a week (which I honestly can not see how it would take half a week longer considering the distances we are talking about).

It really doesn't bother me at all that it takes half a week longer, sort of how you don't care about our petrol prices. I drink the local milk, it taste's better then the rest anyway.
 

neo o

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I take the side of people in rural areas for a point, and this is the thanks I get. *rolls eyes*
 

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neo_o said:
I take the side of people in rural areas for a point, and this is the thanks I get. *rolls eyes*
Well you really didn't take my region's side so I had to. If anything we have benefited from the deregulation due to the increase in sales local dairy's (on the Victorian side) have been given, hence boosting the local economy. And you were more concerned with the quality you were getting that annoyed me rather then taking our side.

Most of your points I'm fine with, but rural areas do need support during times of hardship, now this should be paid back somehow during times of plenty, so to speak, maybe through a reduction in funding etc. Most rural communities are doing little to keep things around and instead blame it on banks leaving etc, there are a few opening around, but the major problem and unavoidable is as things become more and more organised, less people are needed leading to the death of the surroundings.

This leads more people to the few major centres around, increasing pollution in those areas, and congestion.
 
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Enlightened_One

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neo_o said:
What makes you think you deserve to be protected from foreign produce. Foreign goods aren't inferior, and if anything competition only forces you guys to restructure and become more efficient. Personally I believe the huge strides that Australia has made within biological engineering (the way of the future) is partially attributable to the reduction in protectionism which has caused increased investment in agricultural research, creating a new industry.
.....................................................................................


Are you certain? I am certain at least that our chicken industry and our cattle industry set world standards and are far ahead of most of would be imports. Think of diseases such as Foot and Mouth (Cattle), and more importantly, that Avarian bird flu that swept through Asia. We haven't had a large scale out break of either, thankfully, but it would ruin our industry if it did. The easier way for those diseases to enter our country is through imports. Furthermore, their quarantine and health aren't as good as ours and we run the risk of suffering many diseases which would be overlooked by exporters.
And I am almost fairly certain that our quality in most agricultural industries are superior, and far more humane.





Usually I'm all for deregulation, in this case I'll conceed your point though. I think deregulation may have actually been detrimental (because basically it has caused milk to be imported from Victoria, which has reduced the quality of the product for consumers).
.....................................................................................

Exactly.




Tough shit. Retailers make a huge profit, look at textiles, footware and clothing.
.....................................................................................

But is it right? And do you like getting ripped off.





Service industries are actually huge exports. Tourism, education etc.
.....................................................................................
Yeah, but what happens when we have nothing "real" to export. What happens when we need to import all our essentials. Tourism? Tourism won't sustain an entire economy. Education? That won't support an entire education.
Besides, we've a large land, small population, and plenty of room so why not take advantage of that? Instead the government seems content to go the opposite way.






We can't compete with asian countries in regards to low skill industries, thus government policy has caused low skill industries to restructure and become more competitive, as a side effect of not having any protection upon these industries resources have drifted towards industries that employ highly skilled labour where we have a comparative advantage. I.E. traditional agriculture gives rise to => biotechnology and intensive agriculture without regulation (as mentioned above)
.....................................................................................

Biotechnology. I don't agree with GM foods on principle. Take your chances with unproven food, but I'll stick with good old organic food (or as organic as you can get in some cases).
What exactly do you mean by intensive agricultural? Is it battery egg production? That's simple cruetly. Is it raping the land itself. If you know anything about farming, you'll know that the land, like everything else, needs time to recover.




We export services instead of commodities. btw, hypothetically if our dollar did fall it would actually be good for exporters, since it lowers the price of their good on world markets. So no.
.....................................................................................
Lower our dollar. And that's supposed to be good for us. Besides, what exports? They'll dry up soon if the government falls and our dollar will be worth nothing as well. So where's the upside?






Incidentally, most third world economies rely primarily on agricultural exports.
......................................................................................
Yeah, and soon that may command the entire agricultural and labour sector. That would mean we rely on them, but they couldn't give a shit about us. They could do what they liked.




If they can't compete, they shouldn't be in business in the first place. The only concession I'm willing to make on this issue is that increased government expenditure on agricultural research would be a good thing, though I think relying on private funding will be sufficient anyway.
.....................................................................................

Nice concession. It's not about competing, it's about keeping this country afloat, about the government's foolishness, and about people being able to live their lives without the risk that a sort sighted government would abandon them. When our agriculture and labour industries disappear it won't be long before we'll be wanting them back. We have nothing else to support ourselves with.

Competition and Capitalism come first with you mate. So sad.
What I'm getting at is: Soon we may end up taking stuff from other countries without giving back. We buy off them, and sell nothing back. It will create an imbalance that isn't in our favour. And this seems to be the way the government (in it's short sighted greed) is going.
 

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