Gay marriage in NSW/Australia (2 Viewers)

[Xayma]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

Umm those which one can define as moral or immoral generally don't involve other peoples activities, such as homosexual marriage.

Indeed expecting me to help pay for the raising of others childrens through subsidised education etc is more immoral.

 

[robo-andie]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

Actually the 10% figure is just gay propaganda

http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRI_AIM_Talk.html
http://www.leaderu.com/marco/special/spc11b.html
http://www.equip.org/free/DH055-1.htm

The real figure is closer to 1-1.5% of the population - wave bye bye to argument.

Familyresearchinst.org - that website says nothing that disproves Kinsey's findings

Kinsey's findings stated that:

Statistics on homosexuality. According to the extensive data gathered by Kinsey and his associates for his landmark work "Sexual Behaviour in the Human Male" (1984), a study of 5,300 males, approximately 50% had a same-sex genital experience before puberty, 25% had more than incidental homosexual experience for at least three years between the ages 16 and 55 years, and 37% had at least one homosexual experience leading to orgasm after puberty. 10% were exclusively homosexual for a period of at least three years between the ages of 16 and 55

In contrast, this website you sourced states

Alan Guttmacher-sponsored study of men aged 20-39, which estimated that only 1.1% of men had had only male homosexual partners within the last 10 years.

This doesn't say that 1.1% of men were exclusively homosexual, just that only 1.1% of the men between a much small age bracket than what Kinsey studied, happened to have a partner within ten years.

Leaderu.com - This article is quick to acknowledge who Kinsey included in his research, yet reluctant to mention the variables and controls of the researh is quotes. It is very picky about what it includes and I couldn't be convinced by what it says unless I could see the research and see those figures in context.

Equip.org - This is incredibly bias

If homosexuality is neither a normal nor a healthy lifestyle — as I believe this article demonstrates — then the most loving thing we can do is to help homosexuals realize this and offer them our help and encouragement. But millions of people in our society believe that homosexuality is a healthy and acceptable alternative lifestyle

They establish this immediately, it does nothing to support that these figures haven't been fabricated or influenced themselves.


So no, not bye bye.

 

[gerhard]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

i really dont understand people who think its a choice.

to those people - do you actually choose to be heterosexual? like, do you get just as aroused when you see men and women, but decide, no, im going to only have sex with women because its natural.

i mean i can only speak for myself, but i am only attracted to females. i didnt make a choice to be attracted to females, i just am.

 

[robo-andie]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

i really dont understand people who think its a choice.

to those people - do you actually choose to be heterosexual? like, do you get just as aroused when you see men and women, but decide, no, im going to only have sex with women because its natural.

i mean i can only speak for myself, but i am only attracted to females. i didnt make a choice to be attracted to females, i just am.

There is a section in Britannica which explains this really clearly. I'll either find an online version or type up what the book says and attach it. It should clear a lot of things up for a lot of people.

 

[gerhard]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

why would you need an encyclopedia to clear it up?

if you agree that you yourself didnt choose to be heterosexual but are simply physically attracted to females for a unexplainable reason, then people dont have a choice

if you disagree then you must be saying that you get to choose whether to be homosexual or heterosexual. for me personally, this wasnt the case. how about you?

 

[robo-andie]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

why would you need an encyclopedia to clear it up?

It wasn't about clearing it up, it was about giving a very detailed and coherent description of the prenatal and postnatal influences which influenced sexual orientation.

if you agree that you yourself didnt choose to be heterosexual but are simply physically attracted to females for a unexplainable reason, then people dont have a choice

if you disagree then you must be saying that you get to choose whether to be homosexual or heterosexual. for me personally, this wasnt the case. how about you?

I don't think it's a conscious choice, I don't think there is even a choice to be made. It is all decided for you - through both chemical and environmental influences. Things you have no control over.

My sexual orientation was definitely not a choice I made. I don't know why I am attracted to the same sex, I just am.

EDIT: Changed determine to influenced

 

[gerhard]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

oh whoops sorry i thought you were the other guy, lol.

 

[robo-andie]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

... lol we are the only ones on this page...

 

[Xayma]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

It wasn't about clearing it up, it was about giving a very detailed and coherent description of the prenatal and postnatal influences which determine sexual orientation.

Which will be flawed because it is still largely unknown. So far only evidence for predispositioning has been found but that fails to find "what triggers it" in some or all cases. So an encyclopedia article, particularly one dating a few years back would be near pointless.

 

[robo-andie]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

Which will be flawed because it is still largely unknown. So far only evidence for predispositioning has been found but that fails to find "what triggers it" in some or all cases. So an encyclopedia article, particularly one dating a few years back would be near pointless.

The article acknowledges that a lot of the information is still largely unknown, but it provides an overview of what is known. This is just the introduction to the article:

The "biological versus learned' dichotomy regarding the aetiology of homosexual preference - whether it is determined by inborn factors or by environmental influences - continues to muddle scientific investigation of the interacting prenatal and postnatal factors that contribute to all sexual orientation. There is now a substantial body of evidence to suggest that human beings are born with a sexual potential and that heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or asexual preferences unfold during the experiences of childhood and adolescence. This is not to say that prenatal and genetic factors are unimportant. A useful analogy given by psychologist John A. Money of Johns Hopkins University is that of "handedness." A human is born not right or left-handed but bipotential. Experiences in the first few years of life define whether the individual will develop the right, the left, or both cerebral hemispheres - and handedness. There might be predispositions to handedness, which are supported by the fact that most individals are right-handed; however, postnatal experiences probably override such predispositions. Similarly, there is some evidence that suggests possible predispositions to erotic preferences. Such predispositions, however, do not preodrain homosexual or heterosexual preferences; postnatal events can override this influence.

Encyclopedia Britannica(Volume 27 - Pages 260,261)

 

[Xayma]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

You do realize that most of Kinseys data male homosexuality data was from US prison inmates right? As per my links ... I'll leave you to fill in the blanks. Heck fill in you own blanks, do you really thinkg that 1/10 people on the street are gay? You have to be a little retarded to believe that. In fact all Kinsey was doing was writing psuedo-science in order to support his own promiscous lifestyle.

Your figures are also below the standard accepted (I won't be able to find the only article I know which says it as it was a NYT one and they only have free access up to 8 days after its published) but was much closer.

About 3-4% for males, 1-2% for females. so around about 1.5-3% of the population is homosexual.

 

[robo-andie]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

You do realize that most of Kinseys data male homosexuality data was from US prison inmates right?

Not most, but 25% of his subjects were prison inmates. The question he asked them was "for how long have you been exclusively homosexual" not "how often do you have sex with men". Because of this, including prison inmates would have had little, if any influence on the final figures.

do you really thinkg that 1/10 people on the street are gay? You have to be a little retarded to believe that.

Why thankyou for calling me "a little retarded". The statistic isn't saying that literally every 10 people you meet atleast one of them is gay, it merely suggests that on the whole, there is a good chance 10% of our entire population is exclusively homosexual for a period of atleast three years.

In fact all Kinsey was doing was writing psuedo-science in order to support his own promiscous lifestyle.

The same could be said about some of the Christain groups* who have undertaken this research, they are out to prove that homosexuals are an unimportant minority.
Or I could argue, that of the studies undertaken, NONE (no, not even Kinsey) have taken a substantial amount of people from a large variety of different backgrounds to get a fair figure. Most of the studies take people from a particular region and this proves nothing about sexual orientation on a global scale. The most diverse so far was in fact, Kinsey's studies, of the 5300 males he studied, not all of them were from the same or similar area. So even though his data may not be as thorough as one would hope, it is far more inclusive than any other.

*Such as the ones who conducted the research you presented me earlier.

 

[michael_77]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

People seem to have lost sight as to the issue, it is not about statistics but about equality. Homosexuals are just like every other member of the community and thus recieve the same rights and privileges that everyone else has.

P.S. It is not a so called "choice," members of the gbltq community where born that way, just as others where born hetrosexual.

 

[davin]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

think michael is right in the sense that it doesn't matter how many there are. That implies that if a group is enough of a minority, oppress all you'd like.
Now, though, there is the element of if marriage is a right or not, which is a seperate question altogether.

 

[_dhj_]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

I think it probably is a choice but a subconscious one. Individuals may be born more likely to be gay than others perhaps because of hormonal factors? (not sure) But I don't think there's anything wrong with homosexual marriages. After all, it's only a small percentage of people who are homosexual and the advantages of upholding of pluralism and sexual freedom in society, i feel, outweighs the drain on taxpayers in regard to family benefits. The latter question of the purpose of family benefits is irrelevant.

 

[fionah]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

People seem to have lost sight as to the issue, it is not about statistics but about equality. Homosexuals are just like every other member of the community and thus recieve the same rights and privileges that everyone else has.

Precisely. Regardless of whether it is 1% of australia's population, or 10%, there are still people being discriminated against and have their rights infringed. Gay marriage signifies a greater sense of acceptance within the broader community and encourages gay couples to be in healthy monogamous relationships. The matter of choice seems particularly pointless as well.
Conservatives need not fear, I forsee that the removal of the marriage institution will be erradicated before Australia introduces gay marriage or civil unions. I hear the Scandinavian countries are a great place to live though...

 

[_dhj_]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

Regardless of whether it is 1% of australia's population, or 10%, there are still people being discriminated against and have their rights infringed. Gay marriage signifies a greater sense of acceptance within the broader community and encourages gay couples to be in healthy monogamous relationships.

Why discriminate against polygamous relationships

 

[bshoc]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

Precisely. Regardless of whether it is 1% of australia's population, or 10%, there are still people being discriminated against and have their rights infringed.

Which rights do we have that gay people dont? Do tell ..

Gay marriage signifies a greater sense of acceptance within the broader community and encourages gay couples to be in healthy monogamous relationships.

Who says that acceptance is something thats needed in the broader community? Furthermore there are no scientific studies suggesting that letting homosexuals marry will reduce promiscuity, only studies that show that homosexuals are more promiscous than the rest of us.

Conservatives need not fear, I forsee that the removal of the marriage institution will be erradicated before Australia introduces gay marriage or civil unions. I hear the Scandinavian countries are a great place to live though...

Thats because some countries are better at keeping the fringe left in check than others, I suspect that Scandinavia, along with the rest of the EU is in for some political reversals in the future given things like the behaviour of muslim immigrants and the actions of rouge politicians on things such as gay marriage without the consent of the greater populace.

 

[bshoc]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

Why discriminate against polygamous relationships

Becuase marriage in the European cultural sense means something. i.e. man&woman

 

[robo-andie]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

Which rights do we have that gay people dont? Do tell ..

The right to absolute equality. i.e legally recognised partnerships (civil unions)

Who says that acceptance is something thats needed in the broader community?

If people had been using that argument back when we were implementing the white australia policy, or fighting for womens right, it would be a sad state of affairs right now.

Furthermore there are no scientific studies suggesting that letting homosexuals marry will reduce promiscuity, only studies that show that homosexuals are more promiscous than the rest of us.

So because there is no scientific proof, because no one has bothered to research such a thing, we can completely dismiss the idea that allowing them the option to be recognised legally, would give them more of an incentive to participate in monogomy?

Thats because some countries are better at keeping the fringe left in check than others, I suspect that Scandinavia, along with the rest of the EU is in for some political reversals in the future given things like the behaviour of muslim immigrants and the actions of rouge politicians on things such as gay marriage without the consent of the greater populace.

Yes, we should keep those gays in check. We should treat them like the jews, because tolerance and acceptance is something Australia doesn't stand for! Bring back the white australia policy while you're at it!!! why not! let's keep all minorities in check because some crazy politician decided it would be a good idea to advanced society and progress to a more understanding and peaceful era.