Gay marriage in NSW/Australia (2 Viewers)

[robo-andie]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

Becuase marriage in the European cultural sense means something. i.e. man&woman

Marriage in the religious sense means something.

 

[robo-andie]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

There is absolute equality, there is nothing I can do that gays cant.

You can get married.. and it is recognised legally.. does that need to be repeated?

What a shame, becuase womens rights and immigration will sooner or later deminish the white population of Australia - not saying I agree with them, but the people fighting those things had a point.

So because women can vote.. the white population of Australia will diminish? I don't see the logic there. Also, Australia is a multicultural nation, we depend on immigration. It is extremely wrong to think Australia should be exclusively white.

Who cares about monogomy or anything else within the gay community.

Well, for one, I care about the gay community, and so does a large body of Australians.

Whatever happned to right of normal people to live among normal people, isnt that worth anything anymore?

Normal? since when was being homosexual not normal?

I'm more worried about the straight people fighting for "gay rights" ...

Tell me, what is so wrong with other human beings realising injustice and fighting against it?

And that means what? Last time I checked my calendar didnt read 1945.

Now you've got it! You're completely right, we live in 2006, times have changed and will continue to change.

Damn right, Australia stands for equal opportunity and freedom. Tolerance is a stupid idea - everybody has a right to dislike, to hate and to speak out about it if they so wish. Nobody should be forced to tolerate anything - thats why we have brains - to make up our minds ourselves. We've all seen the consquences of excessive "tolerance" in Europe, burning cars, crazy muslims ranning around torching everything, declining population rates and the treatment of abortion in the same light as a regular medical checkup

Yes Australia does stand for equal opportunity and freedom, this is why it is so wrong the Gay community are being discriminated against.
Tolerance isn't a stupid idea and in now way conflicts with a persons ability or right to dislike another or speak out about what they believe in. You're right, nobody should be forced to tolerate anything, but as a human being it would be NORMAL to show some compassion and tolerate something as harmless as a same-sex relationship.
The burning of cars and "crazy muslims" aren't a result of tolerance, they are result of extremist groups taking radical action to speak out against whatever other groups stand for (particularly governments). They are burning things and hurting people because they are intolerant and do not agree with the tolerance these governments encourage.
Since when has a declining population rate been a bad thing? I would see it as a good thing, the world is nearing a point where its resources cannot possibly maintain such a large population. This is the purpose of migration, to create a flow and interchange of people throughout the world and ensure no one is left "understaffed".

I'm up for it. Except the "minority" bit, all people belong to one minority in some way or another, relgion, sexual preference, land of birth, whatever - that doesent mean we accord a unique set of rights to every one of them - starting to see the problem yet?

I don't understand where you got the impression homosexuals are fighting for a unique set of rights. They simply want to be recognised equally (legally) in terms of partnership.
So no, I am not starting to see the problem yet. Ask yourself that question, moments after you read your own words.

 

[_dhj_]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

haha you are like the new Mathmite, S****

 

[robo-andie]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

haha you are like the new Mathmite, S****

.... I don't get it?

 

[_dhj_]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

What a shame, becuase womens rights and immigration will sooner or later deminish[sic] the white population of Australia

I'm inclined to believe that contemporary community values accept minority practices such as homosexuality or the practice of religions other than Christianity (the majority religion). I doubt that it is the wish of the Australian community as a whole to create some neo white volksgemeinschaft that you clearly wish for.

But of course you are entitled to having such a worldview, one which mightn't be regard as "normal" by many.

 

[_dhj_]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

.... I don't get it?

in regard to "mathmite", you are new on the forum
in regard to "S****", you are not bshoc

 

[robo-andie]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

in regard to "mathmite", you are new on the forum
in regard to "S****", you are not bshoc

Ah, I see.
Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[SSaint]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

You can get married.. and it is recognised legally.. does that need to be repeated?

Homosexuals are perfectly entitled to a heterosexual marriage. I for one, am against letting gays get married - this idea would cheapen the traditional image of marriage, a special union between man and woman. Gay couples already have some limited entitlements by law with same-sex de-facto relationships, this is as much as they deserve.

Normal? since when was being homosexual not normal?

Homosexuals are not normal, just by their sexual preference, its not normal, simple.

Tell me, what is so wrong with other human beings realising injustice and fighting against it?

Its not marriage so we don't recognise it, too bad gays. As i said, they're perfectly entitled to a heterosexual relationship.

Yes Australia does stand for equal opportunity and freedom, this is why it is so wrong the Gay community are being discriminated against.

Look, gays are free to have a ceremony of sorts where they commit their love for each other, or whatever the fuck they feel, but the law doesnt need to recognise it as marriage, because marriage by its definition is heterosexual.

Tolerance isn't a stupid idea and in now way conflicts with a persons ability or right to dislike another or speak out about what they believe in. You're right, nobody should be forced to tolerate anything, but as a human being it would be NORMAL to show some compassion and tolerate something as harmless as a same-sex relationship.

the same sex relationship is not normal, but it exists and we can't stop them, its their right to be with each other, so we'll respect their human rights and not slaughter them, so i guess we have to 'tolerate it'.

 

[_dhj_]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

Homosexuals are perfectly entitled to a heterosexual marriage. I for one, am against letting gays get married - this idea would cheapen the traditional image of marriage, a special union between man and woman. Gay couples already have some limited entitlements by law with same-sex de-facto relationships, this is as much as they deserve.

etc...

I think the main questions here are What exactly is marriage recognition of? Is the idea of man and woman fundamental to the purpose of marriage?
Imo, and indeed this is a very subjective issue, marriage is the legal recognition of an intransient loving relationship, and the criteria of the man and woman is not fundamental to the purpose of marriage. That is not to say that homosexuality has widespread acceptance in the community, it is just saying that homosexual relationships can be accomodated under the definition.

 

[robo-andie]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

Homosexuals are perfectly entitled to a heterosexual marriage. I for one, am against letting gays get married - this idea would cheapen the traditional image of marriage, a special union between man and woman. Gay couples already have some limited entitlements by law with same-sex de-facto relationships, this is as much as they deserve.

Civil Unions are what they fight for, not marriage. Civil Unions entitle them to the same benefits of marriage without the traditional ties. Yes they have entitlements, as you said though, they are "limited", that's not good enough. They do actually deserve to be treated as equals, just as all other minorities that have overcome this challenge.

Homosexuals are not normal, just by their sexual preference, its not normal, simple.

No, not simple. There is no evidence that suggests on any level, that homosexuality is not 'normal'. Many scientists have actually concluded that there are no actual predispositions to sexual preference. This would mean, that neither heterosexuality or homosexuality are more normal than the other, just more common, which does not equal normal.

Its not marriage so we don't recognise it, too bad gays. As i said, they're perfectly entitled to a heterosexual relationship.

Too bad, they don't want a heterosexual relationship, that is why they fight those who believe they should accept what is apparently "normal". You're right though, it's not marriage, it is the legal equivalent of marriage - civil union.

Look, gays are free to have a ceremony of sorts where they commit their love for each other, or whatever the fuck they feel, but the law doesnt need to recognise it as marriage, because marriage by its definition is heterosexual.

See previous arguments against the subject of marriage. However, yes, the law should recognise their ceremony so as to provide them with the same level of acceptance and equality within society as heterosexuals.

the same sex relationship is not normal, but it exists and we can't stop them, its their right to be with each other, so we'll respect their human rights and not slaughter them, so i guess we have to 'tolerate it'.

Once again, since when is a same-sex relationship/attraction, not normal?
Yes, it exists, no you can't stop it and obviously it is their right to express their love for one another. In light of this "so we'll respect their human rights", I am assuming you (despite your personal objections) feel that homosexuals are being discriminated against, and it is wrong?

 

[bshoc]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

Civil Unions are what they fight for, not marriage. Civil Unions entitle them to the same benefits of marriage without the traditional ties. Yes they have entitlements, as you said though, they are "limited", that's not good enough. They do actually deserve to be treated as equals, just as all other minorities that have overcome this challenge.

A few points.

1. You cant take away or descrminate against rights if they dont exist in the first place.
2. As has been pointed out before they are treated as equals, there is nobody I can marry that they cant.
3. Why only gays? Why not give special privelages to people with big noses? Vietnamese immigrants? Oh wait thats right .. becuase its stupid and descriminates against everyone who isnt in the minority group.

No, not simple. There is no evidence that suggests on any level, that homosexuality is not 'normal'. Many scientists have actually concluded that there are no actual predispositions to sexual preference. This would mean, that neither heterosexuality or homosexuality are more normal than the other, just more common, which does not equal normal.

Nature suggests that homosexuality is an anomoly - otherwise nature would not have created 2 genders ... zing ..

Once again, since when is a same-sex relationship/attraction, not normal?

Always.

Yes, it exists, no you can't stop it and obviously it is their right to express their love for one another.

You could stop it by lifting this pretend facade of acceptance the leftist morons of this country have tried to impose on the rest of the population. Dont know about you, but as small as the gay community is, it has no right whatsoever to dictate anything to the rest of Australia.

In light of this "so we'll respect their human rights", I am assuming you (despite your personal objections) feel that homosexuals are being discriminated against, and it is wrong?

Their human rights differ from violating the Australian law on marriage.

 

[Xayma]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

A few points.

1. You cant take away or descrminate against rights if they dont exist in the first place.
2. As has been pointed out before they are treated as equals, there is nobody I can marry that they cant.
3. Why only gays? Why not give special privelages to people with big noses? Vietnamese immigrants? Oh wait thats right .. becuase its stupid and descriminates against everyone who isnt in the minority group.

It wouldn't be giving rights to just gay people. You would then be able to marry someone of the same sex (or a civil union as the case may be). You may not want that right, but there are plenty of rights that I don't need (or necessairly want) for example, for example any right to practice a religion.

So in effect gay marriage would expand the rights you have as well without impinging on any other persons rights.

Nature also suggests religion is an anomoly, catholic priests and nuns for instance cannot breed, so why should have special laws in regards to peoples religious beliefs.

 

[robo-andie]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

Nature suggests that homosexuality is an anomoly - otherwise nature would not have created 2 genders ... zing ..

Is this your own conclusion or the conclusion of someone who has studied this? I'm betting on the first.
Regardless, labelling homosexuality as an anomoly doesn't mean it is wrong, it just means it is a less frequent occurence.

Always.

Never. Homosexuality has never been any less normal, than people who use their left hand hand more than their right. It is just a less common preference.

You could stop it by lifting this pretend facade of acceptance the leftist morons of this country have tried to impose on the rest of the population. Dont know about you, but as small as the gay community is, it has no right whatsoever to dictate anything to the rest of Australia.

No right to dictate anything to Australia... funny you should mention that, because no one else has. I thought they were just asking for equality.

Their human rights differ from violating the Australian law on marriage.

In relation to what I said, this both had no relevance and made no sense. Try again.
I said:

In light of this "so we'll respect their human rights", I am assuming you (despite your personal objections) feel that homosexuals are being discriminated against, and it is wrong?

 

[Some_Guy]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

stop being so american bshoc.

 

[kami]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

Which rights do we have that gay people dont? Do tell ..

Let's see...

• The right to have your love of your significant other acknowledged in a public manner(the act of marriage itself).
• The right to right to have permanent residence with your significant other in their home country(if you're from overseas)
• The right to adopt children and raise them as part of a family with your significant other.
• The right to be involved in medical decisions of your significant other if they were incapicitated.

This doesn't even mention all the inequities caused by more general discrimination. So I'm quite surprised you think there is equality - how did you arrive at this conclusion? Do tell...

Who says that acceptance is something thats needed in the broader community?

You prefer segregation and discrimination?

Who cares about monogomy or anything else within the gay community. Whatever happned to right of normal people to live among normal people, isnt that worth anything anymore?

What in the world is normal? Who decides who is normal?

Damn right, Australia stands for equal opportunity and freedom.

You mean equal opportunity and freedom for all of us? Including the freedom to marry?

I'm up for it. Except the "minority" bit, all people belong to one minority in some way or another, relgion, sexual preference, land of birth, whatever - that doesent mean we accord a unique set of rights to every one of them - starting to see the problem yet?

Very few people in the minority get any extra rights, rather they are given more suitable ways to access them (if they get these rights at all...)

I for one, am against letting gays get married - this idea would cheapen the traditional image of marriage, a special union between man and woman.

'traditional marriage'? Marriage is hardly traditional anymore - if it were you'd still be able to marry twelve year old girls you hadn't met, own your wife like a slave, charge someone for marrying outside their race, be unable to divorce your spouse or be able to marry a man...

As has been pointed out before they are treated as equals, there is nobody I can marry that they cant.

You can currently marry the person you are in love with - gays, lesbians and bisexuals who are in same-sex relationships lack this ability.

It also might be interesting for you to note, that some religions are fine with gay marriage and the current legislation prevents same-sex marriages of these religions having legal ramifications. Isn't this discriminating against those religions and denominations? Treating them as less than equal because they aren't part of the Christian norm?

Why only gays? Why not give special privelages to people with big noses? Vietnamese immigrants? Oh wait thats right .. becuase its stupid and descriminates against everyone who isnt in the minority group.

Civil unions would be for more than just gay men and women - everyone would gain those extra entitlements. Divorced catholics would be able to share a civil union without breaking religious taboos by getting married. People in defacto relationships who for whatever reason do not want marriage would gain access. Atheists would not have to have what is at its roots a religious ceremony etc.

In fact, you'd be interested to discover that in New Zealand, where civil unions are already taking place that there is near as many hetero couples as same-sex couples undertaking a civil union.

Nature suggests that homosexuality is an anomoly - otherwise nature would not have created 2 genders ... zing ..

Actually.... Is this where I say zing now?

 

[robo-andie]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

. Is this where I say zing now?

SNAP!

 

[transcendent]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

There was a debate about this on Insight. 10 minutes of it left on SBS. Interesting. The Catholic guy wasn't to my liking, but then so aren't alot of... I only watched 5 minutes of it.

 

[Ollz San]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

There was a debate about this on Insight. 10 minutes of it left on SBS. Interesting. The Catholic guy wasn't to my liking, but then so aren't alot of... I only watched 5 minutes of it.

what about that young gay guy who doesn't feel the need to have a recognised same-sex marriage.
he was just bloody annoying and rude.

 

[transcendent]

Re: Gay marriage in NSW

i didn't watch that part.

 

[yy]

Re: Homosexuality in Australia

ACT is going to the GG to fight Philip Ruddock