Has Anyone Questioned the Fact that.. (2 Viewers)

[abdooooo!!!]

Originally posted by ND
Why would a country school, where people go to school cos they have nothing better to do, be bad at maths in particular? If they're going to school for the sake of it, and without study, then they wouldn't be good at anything, and deserve a bad mark. I don't see what location has to do with anything...

LOL.

well i had a look at the general math paper... isn't that just a copy of the SC mathematics?

but for the standard english paper it looks just like advanced english with different texts. maybe i should look at the syllabus for differences...

but my point is, holl, if you say math is hard why isn't english hard? the most basic english (standard) has changed so much from the SC english of multiple choice and reading type of question to now essays on shakespeare. while math (general) essentially remained the same, and people are still complaining about getting rid of the general math course for a even more stupid version.

believe or not most people in the state do hsc because they want to continue their education and go on to university. maybe people in the country pass time because of unemployment; so bad luck, most people in Africa don't even get an education. there are people out there like me who are not particularly good at english and want to pursue a career in the fields of science and math... but with this compolsury english but not compolsury math enforcement of the board of studies, i am severely disadvantaged compared to the people who are good at english since they can choose not to do math and get a higher uai than me, and thus not letting me get into the courses that i want to do and good at.

Originally posted by braindrainedAsh
Environmental impacts are really really important.... you can't underestimate the importance of environmental conservation...

i know, you can't... i've learnt that in chemistry... the killing of fishes, poisoning of mercury, hot acid rain burning skin, and ozone hole makes people get cancer... who knows what might happen to this world if we scentist don't think about the consequences of our ill fated actions. and if we don't learn about how the World War's was affected by science, we might become an irresponsible scientist in the future and invent more WMD for the benefit of people like Hitler and Bush to kill off a whole culture or race.

 

[holl]

I can see your point abdoo with english skilled people being able to get a better uai. I dont do general maths but i have heard its pretty easy too while a lot of people i know struggle in the course so my suggestion was not to dumb down the standard course but to introduce another lower maths course. And ND, your right, the country people aren't bad at maths in particular, but all subjects if they are simply at school to pass the time, but my point was that the location can affect the schools results. If you were to rank schools by the percent of students in the course who got a credit then a country school would be at a disadvantage because the lower ability people in the course would pull down the top students. For example if 100 students did general maths but 20 of them were enrolled in the course but didnt try or turn up and 14 students got credits, then 14% of students in the course got a credit. But in the city where those 20 students might have a job and not go to school then the percent of students getting a credit would be 14/80 or 17%. I know its only a few marks but it can make a differance.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Originally posted by freaking_out
LoL, what skills? the only skill me and MANY of the kids who got band 6 aquired, was how to memorise and reguirgitate essays!

Memorisation is still a skill that could come in handy in later life.
Even that process still requires at least minimal knowledge and understanding of your texts, and being able to comprehend and/or break down a text for meaning is a valuable skill.

 

[ND]

Originally posted by holl
And ND, your right, the country people aren't bad at maths in particular, but all subjects if they are simply at school to pass the time, but my point was that the location can affect the schools results. If you were to rank schools by the percent of students in the course who got a credit then a country school would be at a disadvantage because the lower ability people in the course would pull down the top students. For example if 100 students did general maths but 20 of them were enrolled in the course but didnt try or turn up and 14 students got credits, then 14% of students in the course got a credit. But in the city where those 20 students might have a job and not go to school then the percent of students getting a credit would be 14/80 or 17%. I know its only a few marks but it can make a differance.

But the ranking of the schools play no part in what kind of marks a student can get. A student has just as much chance of 100 at a country school as at Ruse, the only difference is that a Ruse student will probably thrive on teh competition and study harder etc. But theoretically, there's no difference. Anyway i don't see what this has to do with maths being compulsory.

 

[Constip8edSkunk]

i wouldve thought it'd b easier 2 get 100 from a less competitive school (assuming u hav the same level of ability) as you can get rank 1 for all your subjects and ur UAI depending on how well u cram for your hsc?

Originally posted by Classic
People, Maths isn't compulsory for a REASON .... it isn't absolutely necassary!!
For some it is, yes - but for most, no.
English, on the other hand is necassary - and not just for the elemantary reason: 'We need to know how to read, write and speak in English caus that's the language most used in Australia' - that's pretty obvious! English is necassary as it provides us with ADVANCED skills in understanding ALL texts, and in expressing ourselves.
The BOS aren't idiots- they made it compulsory for a reason ... (ok, well let's hope they aren't idiots. )

cept the hsc english course wasnt about the elementary parts of english, infact ive never learnt a thing about the proper grammar, languages, and structure of various mediums that we use to communicate and interact everyday in high school(then again this could just be the shittiness of my schools english department). besides those skills were supposed to be established by the school certificate stage, along with the fundamentals of mathematics. the HSC eng syllabus isnt really about that and the degree of its applicability in society, i would argue, is NOT greater than say 4U maths, the sciences, histories, economics or any other hsc subjects. the usefulness of the various subjects depends on the career paths one chooses. knowledge of various applications of literary criticisms and the fundamentals of complex numbers are useful in diffeering fields.

having said that, i dun reckon theres a problem with english being compulsory, afterall its unlikely BoS will change. the way they compress all the crap into 1 rigid body that is the english adv. course gives me the shits though

 

[ND]

Originally posted by Constip8edSkunk
i wouldve thought it'd b easier 2 get 100 from a less competitive school (assuming u hav the same level of ability) as you can get rank 1 for all your subjects and ur UAI depending on how well u cram for your hsc?

But when it's easy to come 1st, there is no real reason to study throughout the year... you just think "meh, i'll come 1st in this assessment anyway, why bother studying, i'll just cram for the HSC", and so you don't perform as well as you could have had you gone to a competitive school. Of course, it all comes down to the mindset of the student, it may be better for some. It also sucks when you get screwed over by biased marking, and get a shit assessment mark... (but that's another story)

 

[abdooooo!!!]

yeah, say you can come 10th in ruse, but you'll proly come first in other schools and thus would get you're assessment as your hsc exam mark. the thing is what happen if you don't perform well on the day of hsc exam due to luck or whatever. if you were in ruse then you have something to fall back on, you still get a kick-ass assessment mark that is not the best as you didn't come first, but high enough to minimise the damage of you're ill fated luck on the exam day. but if you were in a crappier school then you proly will be fully destroyed if you stuff up... in terms of getting 100 uai.

then again if everything goes well in the exams... a less competitive school will proly be a better choice as you don't have to worry about assessments that much and can have more time to focuse on getting the best mark for the actual hsc exam.

the system suppose to be fair so it all depends all luck i guess.

 

[mazza_728]

For example if 100 students did general maths but 20 of them were enrolled in the course but didnt try or turn up and 14 students got credits, then 14% of students in the course got a credit. But in the city where those 20 students might have a job and not go to school then the percent of students getting a credit would be 14/80 or 17%. I know its only a few marks but it can make a differance.

I was under the impression, from my careers advisor, that if a student/s perform incredibly well in comparision to the rest of their class they will remain seperated from them and will not be pulled down by others marks. For example as you say if 14 students get credits and the rest dont then that means the 14 students will be separated from the calculation and be calculated alone so they do not get pulled down by others. The BOS is not for disadvantaging people and they recognise achievement. If you earn 92% in one of ur courses but the rest of the class averages at 70% you will not get affected by the other marks, and rightly so.
I think this is correct.

 

[AsyLum]

Originally posted by freaking_out
LoL, what skills? the only skill me and MANY of the kids who got band 6 aquired, was how to memorise and reguirgitate essays!

hahha

and maths isnt about memory ? and regurgitating what you have been doing for over a year ?

wait cos you need to adapt a formulaes which have been concreted to a question right...and the fact that theres only one answer, ohh must be very ummm, random then ?

i dont think so, maths is the basis of memory, for you to come up and say otherwise is blatant denial.

Those who got band 6 did not just regurgitate information or essays, they achieved that through applying the relevant discussions towards the sources given, their own sources and a question.

Think of how hard it would be if we took all the support and information for english away ? would anyone want to do it ? no they would do maths as you say cos its easier, lets take that route. Ok so we have a society that is adept at listening and speaking a language and formulating and applying a set of rules and formulaes to real life. Yet we lack a society which can question, which can adapt to a higher order thinking, and generically we have a society of advertising cannon fodder. How easy is it to manipulate such societies ? Why is it that the intelligencia, those mainly of the thinking and scholarly sectors are always killed or imprisoned before a revolution or uprising? It is because they possess the ability to question and as such pose a problem to the government.

The maths based and scientists are easily used and manipulated, for their art requires the advancement of their field not much more

 

[ND]

Originally posted by AsyLum
hahha

and maths isnt about memory ? and regurgitating what you have been doing for over a year ?

wait cos you need to adapt a formulaes which have been concreted to a question right...and the fact that theres only one answer, ohh must be very ummm, random then ?

i dont think so, maths is the basis of memory, for you to come up and say otherwise is blatant denial.

That's not true at all. There are so many different solutions to each problem. Come and have a look at the 4u forum; even with the elementary questions that are being posted at the moment (as the current 4u students are still new to it), there are still 2-3 different solutions to most questions.

Those who got band 6 did not just regurgitate information or essays, they achieved that through applying the relevant discussions towards the sources given, their own sources and a question.

I got a band6 exam mark, and i regurgitated (word for word) 3 of the 4 essays... The Hamlet one didn't even fit the question at all.

Think of how hard it would be if we took all the support and information for english away ? would anyone want to do it ? no they would do maths as you say cos its easier, lets take that route. Ok so we have a society that is adept at listening and speaking a language and formulating and applying a set of rules and formulaes to real life. Yet we lack a society which can question, which can adapt to a higher order thinking, and generically we have a society of advertising cannon fodder. How easy is it to manipulate such societies ? Why is it that the intelligencia, those mainly of the thinking and scholarly sectors are always killed or imprisoned before a revolution or uprising? It is because they possess the ability to question and as such pose a problem to the government.

Taking away all the support and information for english? What's that got to do with anything? I thought we were talking about whether english and maths should be compulsory or not. And anyway, if you took away all the "support and information" for both maths and english, maths would be a hell of alot harder than english. I'd like to see someone formulate De Moivre's theorem all by themselves...

 

[santaslayer]

english is cool , maths is boring, end of story

 

[ND]

To quote Homer Simpson:

English - Who needs that? I'm never going to England!

 

[Xayma]

Originally posted by santaslayer
english is cool , maths is boring, end of story

Explain, I nearly fall asleep in English, even when I have it on Monday half-way through, I have yet to fall asleep in Maths when I have it the last two periods of the week (yay only the last period of the week this year) Things are different for different people, so why should people who are good at English but not at Maths be rewarded but those who are good at Maths but not so much at English be punished.

 

[ND]

Originally posted by Xayma
Things are different for different people, so why should people who are good at English but not at Maths be rewarded but those who are good at Maths but not so much at English be punished.

I think our uber-scaling makes up for it.

 

[mazza_728]

maths and english either should both be compulsory or both optional that is fair! the current BOS does not respect different peoples opinions.. personally i dont want to do anything that involves english (i,e, analysing texts etc) in my future.. that is a personal decision and the BOS doent appreciate that.

 

[...]

Originally posted by ND
To quote Homer Simpson:

English - Who needs that? I'm never going to England!

haha..

Ralph:
me fail english? thats unpossible.

 

[abdooooo!!!]

LOL. i got one: "so you're from England eh? how long have being in States? you seem to speak the langauge pretty well."

Americans.... they think Australia is just a small village with lots of crocodiles and kangaroos... like in that simpsons epsoide.

 

[Classic]

Originally posted by holl
I can see your point abdoo with english skilled people being able to get a better uai.

I don't think that's entirely true ... maths subjects scale MUCH higher. The english course must count, yes ... but the maths courses scale higher than english courses - therefore, mathematical ppl should be able to achieve a high UAI regardless of their sub-par english mark.

--- btw, im not sure about the memorising essay comment either ... i never once memoriesed an essay and the ppl in my yr that didn't memorise essays usual achieved higher marks than others.

Originally posted by Constip8edSkunk
the hsc english course wasnt about the elementary parts of english

this is usually / should have been covered by the end of year 10 in english.

 

[ND]

Originally posted by Classic

this is usually / should have been covered by the end of year 10 in english.

Which invalidates the argument that english should be compulsory because we live in an english speaking country.

 

[abdooooo!!!]

we live in math using country as well... so yeah.

should make science compulsory as well... and history... geography.... like in year10.

i believe the reason why we have year 12 is to get into uni... gay reasons like hsc gets you jobs is stupid. year10 should end your deveploment as a person in society, knowing the basics of english, math, science etc... year12 is about choosing your best subjects and see how high a mark you can get so uni's can discriminate against who they pick to do certain degrees, hence perform certain roles in society... this is also known as the job theorem.