High school activism YAY! (2 Viewers)

[picon]

Also the Howard government has cut $5billion form education since in power. This has been a bit of a problem with public education overall.

You do realise that education is supposed to be a matter that the state governments deal with? In NSW alone, the public schools should NEVER have been allowed to be in the deplorable state that they presently are, considering how prosperous the NSW economy is and the amount of revenue coming in from ridiculous taxes. If you want to point fingers about public education, start with the state government, including Bob Carr. I don't care if he's quit, he should still be held responsible for running NSW into the ground.

 

[jimsim15]

Regarless of whether there are fixed university places is not the issue. It is fixed at 25% and 35% which takes spots away from students who don;t have the money to pay for their education. It leads to the idea of whether eduaction is a righ or a privilege. I see it as a right. If students are getting there university spots taken by rich students then that is a problem and needs to be fought against. Wht should the rich have greater access to education than the poor?
The issue is not students that can pay upfront should not be allowed to but rather that spots at uni should be taken away from other less wealthyt students to allow them access to university.
I do see the benefit of full fee paying on the rich in that they don't have to pay hecs for the next 30 years of their lives, but this is detrimentally effecting students who work hard for marks yet cannot get to uni because their spot has been taken by a ful fee paying studnet who got 4-5 marks less.
What did you mena by "getting money" who is giving who money? HECS are a loan from the Government that you pay back over your lifetime.

 

[jimsim15]

Its both a state and a federal issue. Eg. THe Howard government is currently trying to bring in VSU nationally. In WA VSU has been in for a while and fucked up their uni's. Im not a Bob Carr fan either. Labor-right and LIbs are practically the same. In Bob carr's case he was often more right wing than a few Libs

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Regarless of whether there are fixed university places is not the issue. It is fixed at 25% and 35% which takes spots away from students who don;t have the money to pay for their education.

But there is a greater possibility to have more non-fee paying students... ?

If students are getting there university spots taken by rich students then that is a problem and needs to be fought against.

As I continue to explain, their spots are not being taken... no one is missing out on university due to richer students, in fact the opposite is more than likely happening. Richer students are (as they do not cost anything) allowing for more allocation of resources to students whom aren't rich.

Wht should the rich have greater access to education than the poor?

All that they really get from paying their money is a +5 uai point increase... It's not that great to go crying about, and due to them gaining this slight advantage they save the system money in order to create new places for students who never would of had a place before.

I do see the benefit of full fee paying on the rich in that they don't have to pay hecs for the next 30 years of their lives, but this is detrimentally effecting students who work hard for marks yet cannot get to uni because their spot has been taken by a ful fee paying studnet who got 4-5 marks less.

See this does not make sense, because more money = more spots.

What did you mena by "getting money" who is giving who money? HECS are a loan from the Government that you pay back over your lifetime.

Richer students are giving more money, which then leads to savings in the realm of education, which can be used to create spots for students whom would have had their spot taken up by this richer student.

 

[withoutaface]

Labor-right and LIbs are practically the same.

That just erased any credibility your argument might have had.

 

[erawamai]

That just erased any credibility your argument might have had.

Labor right faction and the Liberal wets are pretty similar. Economically and socially pretty similar.

 

[picon]

In response to the original post

There campaings that are done in high schools are mediated by staff who essentially determine what action is appropriate... This is a problem i personally have with school captiains. They don't really represent the students and often they don't have control over issues. The staff make decisions not students.

Even though school captains are meant to represent students, essentially they are representatives of the school, which means that schools want a say in how they are being represented so as not to generate any negative publicity.

THe analysis of why a student should get involved in a school-based campaigning is also flawed by the intrinsic connection to a superficial careerist ideology. Comments such as "it will look good for you when you leave school" or "its what employees like to see" are effective in only debasing the campaign and creating opportunism through dissenting issues that should be analysed in great depth.

This 'careerist ideology' can work both ways. Sure it may look good on your resume, but it could also work against you. Companies may not want a politically active potential employee if it means that their profits/reputation could in any way be jeopardised.

 

[jimsim15]

I see your point. Its part of the agenda of the government to eventually privatise education. As once education is priviatised the State doesn't really have to worry about it. The problem with full fee places is the percentage that is rising. In the nelson review there were discussions to take to reserved places up to 50%. This does mean more places for students who have the money to pay. I doesn't equal out nad work out better for unwealthy students. It is merely keeping the system alive but for how long? THe reason why full-fees were introduced was to cut federal expenditure. When the Gov cuts funding it allows for alluence to determine who does and does not go to uni.
The 5 marks does make a difference. It makes a big difference. I think anyone who has done the HSC knows how important even .1 of a mark is.
I would rather see a fully publicly funded education system that does not privilege those with wealth other those without.
More money does not equal more spots. Its not a simple equation and i don't think you could find one bit of evidence to suport what your saying. There any many factors that influence uni spots; government funding is the main one. As i said its not that simple.

 

[jimsim15]

Are you supoprting the ecological sustainability vote at USYD and in Unity (for those who don't know unity is labor-right)? If so This argument could go on for some time.
Indeed wet libs and labor right are very similar. Brogden found it had to put forward an Right wing alternative with Carr in power.

 

[picon]

In WA VSU has been in for a while and fucked up their uni's.

Doesn't that say more about the uni's themselves and how they manage their funds, since the uni's set their own union fees?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

More money does not equal more spots. Its not a simple equation and i don't think you could find one bit of evidence to suport what your saying. There any many factors that influence uni spots; government funding is the main one. As i said its not that simple.

More money from the students = a larger % of government funding going towards non-full fee students.. I do not see how this is a bad thing. If you have a problem with the government cutting funding to universities, that is another matter, but it's easy to see that with more full-fee students there is more money left over to be spent on non-fee students...

I think you'll find that the ammount of people going to university is going up, while the youthful population is going down, and that there is one of the highest percentages of young people currently undertaking tertiary studies ever.

 

[walrusbear]

More money from the students = a larger % of government funding going towards non-full fee students.. I do not see how this is a bad thing. If you have a problem with the government cutting funding to universities, that is another matter, but it's easy to see that with more full-fee students there is more money left over to be spent on non-fee students...

I think you'll find that the ammount of people going to university is going up, while the youthful population is going down, and that there is one of the highest percentages of young people currently undertaking tertiary studies ever.

that equation you purport, is that actually even true?
does the government have a fixed amount of money allocated specifically to HECS payments? is there any proof of this? if so, how does the government redistribute the 'leftovers' in support of non-fee paying students??

 

[withoutaface]

Labor right faction and the Liberal wets are pretty similar. Economically and socially pretty similar.

The thing is that the right faction of the Liberals is dominant over the progressives in Federal and (lately) in State politics, and most certainly in student politics.

 

[SashatheMan]

so whats this about. i got no time to read it

 

[Not-That-Bright]

that equation you purport, is that actually even true?
does the government have a fixed amount of money allocated specifically to HECS payments? is there any proof of this? if so, how does the government redistribute the 'leftovers' in support of non-fee paying students??

Oh I don't know whether the government is allocating more money due to increased revenues from the full fee's, but the potential is definately there. However I would point out that there is a higher % of Young Australians in tertiary study atm than ever before... and there are still more places being created =/

 

[Phanatical]

Even though school captains are meant to represent students, essentially they are representatives of the school, which means that schools want a say in how they are being represented so as not to generate any negative publicity.

This is true. In my penultimate year at Girraween HS, I received more votes than any other student in my year (including the Captains) from both students and teachers for a position of Prefect. However, the school administration chose not to allow me to take up this position, for even though the democratic process had spoken, the school did not believe I would present the right image for a Prefect, as my academic performance was not as strong as quite a number at our school (being a Selective School), the fact that I was extremely active in student politics to date (being an outspoken critic on a number of practices within the school, including a supposedly confidential teacher's blacklist of students the school wanted to be rid of, and a number of safety practices endangering lives), and (of course), the fact that I had taken over our school SRC in what was literally a coup d'etat. The school wanted obedient, photogenic prefects who wouldn't "embarass" the school by suggesting that the chain of command wasn't as strong as it should be.

 

[walrusbear]

how could you possibly know how many votes you got?

 

[trina233]

Well...entering this heated political debate, I do agree with most of jim sim (james) who started the thread.
James is a person who has thrown himself entirely into activism at university that he should be acknowledged for his advice. If it does not interest you, dont reply. It is as easy as that. James was offering advice, for the benefit of the starved activist interested students, probably younger than 18 years old.
Personally, I well air my view, that I am tired of reading debates, where in any case a person wants to show they have more knowledge then the starter of the thread.
Then again, I don't know whether I should even say this, because this really is politics at its core.
If you are intersted in activisim within schools, take what you can from james, if you are not MOVE ON, and stop wasting your life criticsing somebodies view.

I agree with you james, if these people replying are interested themselves in activism, how much time are they spending being 'ACTIVE'? In the time you've had to type and reply aggressively to this message.. you could easily be particapating in changing the way our country is goverened.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Well...entering this heated political debate, I do agree with most of jim sim (james) who started the thread.
James is a person who has thrown himself entirely into activism at university that he should be acknowledged for his advice. If it does not interest you, dont reply. It is as easy as that. James was offering advice, for the benefit of the starved activist interested students, probably younger than 18 years old.
Personally, I well air my view, that I am tired of reading debates, where in any case a person wants to show they have more knowledge then the starter of the thread.
Then again, I don't know whether I should even say this, because this really is politics at its core.
If you are intersted in activisim within schools, take what you can from james, if you are not MOVE ON, and stop wasting your life criticsing somebodies view.

I agree with you james, if these people replying are interested themselves in activism, how much time are they spending being 'ACTIVE'? In the time you've had to type and reply aggressively to this message.. you could easily be particapating in changing the way our country is goverened.

That's a nice attack on critical thought, good one trina. Do you think that participating in a debate on an internet forum is somehow less 'active' than walking in a rally ?

 

[withoutaface]

Well...entering this heated political debate, I do agree with most of jim sim (james) who started the thread.
James is a person who has thrown himself entirely into activism at university that he should be acknowledged for his advice. If it does not interest you, dont reply. It is as easy as that. James was offering advice, for the benefit of the starved activist interested students, probably younger than 18 years old.
Personally, I well air my view, that I am tired of reading debates, where in any case a person wants to show they have more knowledge then the starter of the thread.
Then again, I don't know whether I should even say this, because this really is politics at its core.
If you are intersted in activisim within schools, take what you can from james, if you are not MOVE ON, and stop wasting your life criticsing somebodies view.

I agree with you james, if these people replying are interested themselves in activism, how much time are they spending being 'ACTIVE'? In the time you've had to type and reply aggressively to this message.. you could easily be particapating in changing the way our country is goverened.

This is about the extent of my activism:

That said, I think high school activism is generally petty and shortsighted because the majority of students do not understand the full extent of the issues they are activist for or against (referring in particular to the fact that 90% of those at my school who went to the anti-war marches actually thought the US was making a profit out of it), but if it helps you sleep at night then by all means do it.