Holocaust (1 Viewer)

[Dejana]

to whom is reading this .. i wanna do the holocaust as my IRP .. wat u think? is it a good topic and wats a good question.
i basicly want to know what it was about and how hitler got the right to do that, and how he convinced the other countries to join him ..
tell me ur thoughts ..
xoxox

 

[veridis]

"what it is about?" not exactly a histx q
"how hitler got the right to do that" hitlers emergency powers well covered in mod so off limits
"how he convinced the other countries to join him" starting a long a more interesting path. but rather than "others countries" you'd probably want to focus on an individual country or leader. culpability is a very interesting issue and after WWII many people found it convinient to blame it all on the nazis and wash their hands. looking at other contributors and their subsequant treatments(i imagine in eastern bloc anyone to do with it would be shot while in the west there would be a lot more blame shifting).

wonder if anyone will do a project this year on david irving. it would be fun

 

[gordo]

sounds like 2u history
an IRP should explore how history operates,
maybe use the holocaust to prove that history can be created and defined through advances in technology

 

[hopeles5ly]

"what it is about?" not exactly a histx q
"how hitler got the right to do that" hitlers emergency powers well covered in mod so off limits
"how he convinced the other countries to join him" starting a long a more interesting path. but rather than "others countries" you'd probably want to focus on an individual country or leader. culpability is a very interesting issue and after WWII many people found it convinient to blame it all on the nazis and wash their hands. looking at other contributors and their subsequant treatments(i imagine in eastern bloc anyone to do with it would be shot while in the west there would be a lot more blame shifting).

wonder if anyone will do a project this year on david irving. it would be fun

haha heard his in jail now

 

[xeuyrawp]

to whom is reading this .. i wanna do the holocaust as my IRP .. wat u think? is it a good topic and wats a good question.
i basicly want to know what it was about and how hitler got the right to do that, and how he convinced the other countries to join him ..
tell me ur thoughts ..
xoxox

'Search this forum', 'holocaust'.

 

[Sarah168]

"how hitler got the right to do that?"

I don't even know how to respond.

 

[xeuyrawp]

"how hitler got the right to do that?"

I don't even know how to respond.

Me neither. I figure it's better just to leave it...

 

[SL33pY]

is the holocaust topic overdone??..
and would that affect the way teachers mark any thesis on this topic?

 

[xeuyrawp]

is the holocaust topic overdone??..
and would that affect the way teachers mark any thesis on this topic?

It totally depends. They might have never seen one in their life. Ask them.

 

[ohh la la]

i actually don't think you can. depending on your second study for modern. if your doing ww2 move on now and find another topic. you wont be allowed to do it.
i am doing the longevity of fascism in spain and i can only mention hitler and fascism IN PASSING.
its a bos rule.

 

[xeuyrawp]

i actually don't think you can. depending on your second study for modern. if your doing ww2 move on now and find another topic. you wont be allowed to do it.
i am doing the longevity of fascism in spain and i can only mention hitler and fascism IN PASSING.
its a bos rule.

They might not be doing that topic in modern. They might not be doing modern at all.

And the the rule is that you can't overlap with other EXTENSION topics. You can do whatever you want as long as it has nothing to do with extension history -- someone doing ancient history could do Ramesses II, and you could do as much about Hitler as you want.

Please, don't confuse totally different rules...

 

[cem]

They might not be doing that topic in modern. They might not be doing modern at all.

And the the rule is that you can't overlap with other EXTENSION topics. You can do whatever you want as long as it has nothing to do with extension history -- someone doing ancient history could do Ramesses II, and you could do as much about Hitler as you want.

Please, don't confuse totally different rules...

Please read pp. 25 - 26 of the History Extension syllabus as quoted below.

"The topic of the project should reflect an area of student interest; however, the topic:
• must focus on the fundamental historiographical concepts and issues of HSC History Extension
• may be developed from a case study but should cover substantially different ground
• must not overlap significantly with the examinable content of any other School Certificate or Higher School Certificate course."


It clearly states in the last point that students can't do any topic that could be examined in any SC or HSC course - not just History courses.

 

[Danm999]

Please read pp. 25 - 26 of the History Extension syllabus as quoted below.

"The topic of the project should reflect an area of student interest; however, the topic:
• must focus on the fundamental historiographical concepts and issues of HSC History Extension
• may be developed from a case study but should cover substantially different ground
• must not overlap significantly with the examinable content of any other School Certificate or Higher School Certificate course."


It clearly states in the last point that students can't do any topic that could be examined in any SC or HSC course - not just History courses.

Key word there is significantly. Obviously you aren't completely barred from doing something that is in someway related to your 2 unit course. For example, I knew someone who in 2 unit Modern did Russia and the Soviet Union 1917-1941, but was allowed to do Stalin as war leader for their IRP. There was overlap, but it wasn't significant.

Plus, nothing in the SC or any other HSC courses would consist of enough historiographical meat to cause this problem.

 

[cem]

Key word there is significantly. Obviously you aren't completely barred from doing something that is in someway related to your 2 unit course. For example, I knew someone who in 2 unit Modern did Russia and the Soviet Union 1917-1941, but was allowed to do Stalin as war leader for their IRP. There was overlap, but it wasn't significant.

Plus, nothing in the SC or any other HSC courses would consist of enough historiographical meat to cause this problem.

So you say there is nothing in SC History that has meat in it??

If there wasn't anything with enough historiographical issues why put in the clause? Because there are things there - personally I don't know of any but the people who wrote the syllabus presumably thought they were there. (I must ask one of them the next time I met them at a conference or HSC marking this year to clarify the types of topics they meant with this clause).

Doing anything on another history syllabus is open to the individual teacher's interpretation - we don't allow any topic mentioned in any syllabus to be the topic at my school but other teachers I know do. The topic you mentioned would certainly be a no-no (one student wanted to do something like this but we said no and directed him to post-WWII Stalin).

The sooner they have these essays externally marked the better and then there would be more requirements on teachers to interpret the syllabus in the same way but while the only person who has to mark the essay is the teacher who guides the student through the process there will always be questions like this. (I know that many schools do have other teachers mark the essays but there is no requirement to do so).

NB did you read the quote to which I was replying - a person who was stating that if a person wasn't studying a topic then they could do their research task on it whereas I quoted the syllabus pointing out that his scenario was in fact incorrect.

 

[Danm999]

So you say there is nothing in SC History that has meat in it??

If there wasn't anything with enough historiographical issues why put in the clause? Because there are things there - personally I don't know of any but the people who wrote the syllabus presumably thought they were there. (I must ask one of them the next time I met them at a conference or HSC marking this year to clarify the types of topics they meant with this clause).

Not at all, what I mean to say is that any History Extension IRP should hope to contain more histiographical 'meat' than would be present in the SC syllabus. The fact however that clause is there does validate your point, but I feel that any project which cannot go deeper than SC evaluation in an HSC extension subject is problematic in it's own right.

Doing anything on another history syllabus is open to the individual teacher's interpretation - we don't allow any topic mentioned in any syllabus to be the topic at my school but other teachers I know do. The topic you mentioned would certainly be a no-no (one student wanted to do something like this but we said no and directed him to post-WWII Stalin).

Of course, each individual would have his or her own interpretation of the significant clause. I should mention that the topic focused on Russia ended (from memory) May 1941. As Operation Barbarossa begin in June, there is really no overlap besides Stalin as a leader.

NB did you read the quote to which I was replying - a person who was stating that if a person wasn't studying a topic then they could do their research task on it whereas I quoted the syllabus pointing out that his scenario was in fact incorrect.

I was merely advocating that certain schools will allow you to do certain topics based on the significant overlap clause. To make a definitive statement like you did I felt was errorneous. It does not "clearly state", it rather appears highly ambigious.

 

[xeuyrawp]

NB did you read the quote to which I was replying - a person who was stating that if a person wasn't studying a topic then they could do their research task on it whereas I quoted the syllabus pointing out that his scenario was in fact incorrect.

I'm sorry this is a late reply, but your last sentence was so presumptuous that it made me gag. How the fuck can you pretend to know what has and has not happened. Furthermore, how can someone with dubious claims like yours pretend that I'm lying?

Especially when you're so bad at looking at what people say. Just to clarify for you:

It is up to the individual markers to decide whether a topic overlaps - it's an internal project, not an external one. If you haven't noticed, there's frequently a discrepency between bos rules and what actually happens. Stop pretending what happens in the classroom is as the bos would like.

I HAVE seen topics overlap with the current study in modern or ancient history. My scenario was actually a true one.

The teacher used her discretion and allowed the topic because it didn't significantly overlap with the dot-points within the ancient syllabus. However, the student's major work did help them in the 2U HSC course because it was about the general topic.

Therefore, you're wrong - it happened.

So you say there is nothing in SC History that has meat in it??

Could you respond to the actual main points being relayed, rather than the one sentence aside? You left out an entire paragraph of what danm said.

If you would like to contend any of this, you have to contend what happened (ie, factually) did not happen.

Instead, you seem bent on dividing what happened (ie, factually) with what should happen (ie, normatively).

I was merely advocating that certain schools will allow you to do certain topics based on the significant overlap clause. To make a definitive statement like you did I felt was errorneous. It does not "clearly state", it rather appears highly ambigious.

That's exactly right.

Not only is he saying that what should happen is what actually happens, but he's saying that he knows what did happen in my experience.

 

[nikki.zixin]

wonder if anyone will do a project this year on david irving. it would be fun

Just handed in my major project on the denial of Holocaust looking at Irving .. and also Lipstadt but minimally. It was fun

 

[The Brucemaster]

I think i would actually go far as to say that no, there isn't any historiographical meat in SC History. You said it yourself, you can't think of any and nor can I.


Back on topic I haven't actually read about anything to do with Holocaust denial, can someone fill me in on the basic arguments used because from where I'm standing it seems a ludicrous suggestion.

 

[ane_st]

is the holocaust topic overdone??..
and would that affect the way teachers mark any thesis on this topic?

Im doing the holocaust and my teacher has never marked a holocaust essay b4...

 

[ane_st]

Back on topic I haven't actually read about anything to do with Holocaust denial, can someone fill me in on the basic arguments used because from where I'm standing it seems a ludicrous suggestion.

basically, some people deny some aspects of the holocaust... like 6million didnt really die, they didnt use gas chambers... and that david irving guy who says it didnt occur, however now he has changed his mind...