If You're a Christian, Muslim or Jew - You are Wrong (3 Viewers)

[veterandoggy]

i know what your saying with that "until they follow what you agree with", but this is an discussion , with people trying to prove their argument, i dont think i should change my mind when something so blatantly false is presented to me and expect me to believe. it actually makes me more certain i am correct .

i meant nothing uber, it just popped into my mind when i thought how many times we have "agreed" on something

 

[SashatheMan]

found it.




sorry, out of context (but so is all this babbling), but are amino acids and such able to stay without decaying on their ownselves? if so, how long will it take before it decays? i dont know, and am hoping someone posts the life span of organic materials as such, but from what i can guess, even if earth had billions of years to create a cell, its components wouldnt have been able to build up over these years. and according to the pre atmospheric environment, wouldnt the cell have been destroyed before it had a chance to live (UV rays)? and if this holds true, then when the atmosphere formed, how could this environment be upheld to make more cells, with the removal of alot of UV light? just out of my mind, so dont ask for a quoting, but now that i read over it, it makes sense, and isnt gibberish, before any of you say so.

i dont think an amino acid is an organism , its the basic structure of an organism.
and i dotn think amino acids decay.

amino acids are molecules and a molecule is the smallest particle of a pure chemical substance that still retains its chemical composition and properties.
so i dont think it decays.

i got that from the all mighty Wiki

 

[SashatheMan]

similar to for example water. You dont see the ocean decay.

 

[veterandoggy]

you havent finished answering it

 

[SashatheMan]

you havent finished answering it

i am not a scientist and havent studied this into any depth. But this is a good quick read on how scientist believe first cell started from enzymes, that formed into protiens and fatty acids and then the extreme rays of sun made them form into larger sections.

just read it i am not good at explaining it.

http://library.thinkquest.org/C003124/en/life-2.htm

this link provides yuo will scientific experiments that were performed to back up the theories.

 

[veterandoggy]

But how did these proteins and other organic compounds form the first cell? It is not very clear, but most likely, a group of organic molecules including proteins, and primitive fatty acids formed into a droplet, or bubble-like structure, which had the ability to combine with external elements, such as proteins not a part of it.

self explanatory. they are unsure as to how the substances became a cell.

and i am still unsure how a cell could have formed exactly between the time when a ozone layer was formed, and when the earth was being bombarded by external forces to join them together.

 

[SashatheMan]

well obviously when your studying something so many millions of years ago its hard to map everything together, how ever you would have notices that the article provided excellent examples of scientists recreating the events in scientific experiments.

so what experiments have been conducted to add evidence that god created the earth?
i read about this guy who supported inteligent desingn in science class rooms and he believed that the earth was 6000 years old, and provided such terrible evidence to support his belief.

 

[SashatheMan]

Persuasion and Brainwashing Techniques
Being Used On The Public Today

Conversion is a "nice" word for brainwashing...and any study of brainwashing has to begin with a study of Christian revivalism in eighteenth century America. Apparently, Jonathan Edwards accidentally discovered the techniques during a religious crusade in 1735 in Northampton, Massachusetts. By inducing guilt and acute apprehension and by increasing the tension, the "sinners" attending his revival meetings would break down and completely submit. Technically, what Edwards was doing was creating conditions that wipe the brain slate clean so that the mind accepts new programming. The problem was that the new input was negative. He would tell them, "You're a sinner! You're destined for hell!"

As a result, one person committed suicide and another attempted suicide. And the neighbors of the suicidal converts related that they, too, were affected so deeply that, although they had found "eternal salvation," they were obsessed with a diabolical temptation to end their own lives.

Once a preacher, cult leader, manipulator or authority figure creates the brain phase to wipe the brain-slate clean, his subjects are wide open. New input, in the form of suggestion, can be substituted for their previous ideas. Because Edwards didn't turn his message positive until the end of the revival, many accepted the negative suggestions and acted, or desired to act, upon them.
...
.
.

Source
this article is huge and goes further to expalint he techinues use for manipulating the mind of those that are going to be converted .

however i am just pointing out that all religions do this , when you attend a church or a mosque, they work on the emotions of an individual or group until they reach an abnormal level of anger, fear, excitement, or nervous tension, which makes them easily convert and after that its easy sailing, by feeding them more of the same stuff they are submissive and will axcept any crap they are told

i can see this in alot of religious people , even here on bos.
the bible and the quran work on the similar princple, except its just a tool , used by the barin washers ( preachers) to help with their manipulations.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Well what you're really talking about is a cult... it is much like the frog in the pot scenario, where if you slowly boil the water the frog won't know until it's too late - much in the same way when you first join a cult it seems very innocent, then slowly over time the more radical elements come in.

In alot of ways organised religions are cults.

 

[SashatheMan]

i read up on something very interesting .

Theres basicly an idea that exists, that the story of jesus was "borrowed" from pagan gods. Especially Dionysus, Osiris and Mithras.

The myth of Dionysus bears startling resemblances to the story of Jesus Christ. It compares with the biblical story in the following ways:
- Dionysus is God made flesh and is hailed as the 'Saviour of Mankind' and the 'Son of God'
- His father is God and his mother is a mortal virgin who afterwards becomes worshipped as the 'Mother of God'
- He is born in a cowshed
- He drives out demons, turns water into wine
- returns from the dead,
.
.
.

basicly christianity just takes over from previous gods and uses many of thier stories , and ideas.

 

[AsyLum]

i read up on something very interesting .

Theres basicly an idea that exists, that the story of jesus was "borrowed" from pagan gods. Especially Dionysus, Osiris and Mithras.



basicly christianity just takes over from previous gods and uses many of thier stories , and ideas.

Hehe, the flood myth is one of the most common myths within antiquity, with the babylonians, the egyptians, the greeks, etc all having some form of the myth prior.

Whilst under, particularly egyptian control, it would be naive to think that the stories weren't influenced at least by the culture of the egyptians, who were a socio-religious nation

 

[veterandoggy]

Well what you're really talking about is a cult... it is much like the frog in the pot scenario, where if you slowly boil the water the frog won't know until it's too late - much in the same way when you first join a cult it seems very innocent, then slowly over time the more radical elements come in.

In alot of ways organised religions are cults.

but you must remember that people arent as feeble as the frog. if they noticed that it is too hot for their liking they can always jump out of the pot.

 

[veterandoggy]

i read up on something very interesting .

Theres basicly an idea that exists, that the story of jesus was "borrowed" from pagan gods. Especially Dionysus, Osiris and Mithras.



basicly christianity just takes over from previous gods and uses many of thier stories , and ideas.

you learn something new everyday

 

[mr EaZy]

i am not a scientist and havent studied this into any depth. But this is a good quick read on how scientist believe first cell started from enzymes, that formed into protiens and fatty acids and then the extreme rays of sun made them form into larger sections.

just read it i am not good at explaining it.

http://library.thinkquest.org/C003124/en/life-2.htm

this link provides yuo will scientific experiments that were performed to back up the theories.

firstly u cant use water to compare with amino acids as water isnt an organic compound. ORganic compounds do breakdown : eg: fats and carbs but im not sure if this applies to all organic compounds- some may take thousands of years to breakdown like organic chemicals and soaps

as for the site you put up: we dont necessarily have to conflict on that.

when you see something happening in nature you dont have to take it at face value as in a+ b+c+D +e+f = XXXX - you can also think about how things happen and why they did (what conditions made it possible etc)
so like i said there need not be a conflict- i can draw you to verses of the Quran but im not an expert in that field or any other...

this part in the article apparently needs work though: We know how amino acids form, but that was the limit of the oparin experiment- it didnt go on further to create the first cell in a lab

But how did these proteins and other organic compounds form the first cell? It is not very clear, but most likely, a group of organic molecules including proteins, and primitive fatty acids formed into a droplet, or bubble-like structure, which had the ability to combine with external elements, such as proteins not a part of it. Eventually, these droplets would grow, and divide. These droplets would eventually evolve into the first true cell. These early cells would have been autotrophs, which are organism which produce their own energy, usually from sunlight. Some of these cells would then evolve into heterotrophs (organisms which ingest organic material as a nutrient source)

in time, im sure we'll find an answer


but have a look at this site:

http://www.islam-guide.com

and in particular:

http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-g.htm

which is my fav coz i never thought about that before.

theres a whole heap of stuff there but its just a Brief guide - not a complete guide

 

[veterandoggy]

yeah, they've only given 2 miracles that the prophet was given. there is also an addition to the one where the water gushed from between his hands that the army was also hungry and they found a beached marine creature. it was so big that they could only light a fire to cook its side. and 5 men were able to walk into its eye socket, and one of its small bones were bent to form an arch, and a tall companion on a camel was able to pass under it without bowing his head

 

[SashatheMan]

yeah, they've only given 2 miracles that the prophet was given. there is also an addition to the one where the water gushed from between his hands that the army was also hungry and they found a beached marine creature. it was so big that they could only light a fire to cook its side. and 5 men were able to walk into its eye socket, and one of its small bones were bent to form an arch, and a tall companion on a camel was able to pass under it without bowing his head

and such a creature doesnt exist.

 

[SashatheMan]

Hehe, the flood myth is one of the most common myths within antiquity, with the babylonians, the egyptians, the greeks, etc all having some form of the myth prior.

Whilst under, particularly egyptian control, it would be naive to think that the stories weren't influenced at least by the culture of the egyptians, who were a socio-religious nation

exactly , they borrowed EGyptian gods and Greek gods and used thier stories to make a similar story about Jesus.

i also read that the explanations the priests give when people confront them with this, is that satan is such a great manipulater that he made up these old religons to confuse christians, the most obsurd and not thought-throw excuse i have ever heard.

 

[veterandoggy]

and such a creature doesnt exist.

hence the term "miracle"

 

[SashatheMan]

hence the term "miracle"

that mircale is notihng more then an example of an allegory that many people wrote in those times.
People like you have come along way where alot of things can be proven with research and scientific experiments , however you still believe is crap called "miracles" which are nothing more then fictional stories or myths that hardly have truth in it.
the only miracle is that theres still idiots who believe in them

 

[veterandoggy]

i also read that the explanations the priests give when people confront them with this, is that satan is such a great manipulater that he made up these old religons to confuse christians, the most obsurd and not thought-throw excuse i have ever heard.

they were probably put on the spot. i couldnt think of something worse.