I'll fight Beazley for a fifth term: PM (2 Viewers)

[Korn]

gosh poor costello. i reckon he'd be better than howard. as for being too old, nah, howard's fine...but still...give costello a chance! kinda like the queen, i don't want charles as king but i'm beginning to feel very sorry for him.

as for family first, i support their values but not for politics. i don't think christianity and politics really mesh well..but if people are voting for them because they represent what they want, then that's perfectly fine.

They are quite extreme christians arent they associated with Hillsong?

 

[jennylim]

i know, lol. i'd adhere to those values for myself and my family. but i think imposing them on other people who don't believe or who are violently opposed is..well..difficult. and possibly wrong.

 

[Generator]

I'm not exactly a righty, but I will say my comment is no less pointless than the imaginative accusations and claims some (note the lack of generalistion?) left-wing people are making about Johnie. I'm not jumping to conclusions, either - they are lefties (which I'm sure they'll attest to).

I guess that I could have been clearer. I wasn't making a sweeping generalisation but was trying to suggest that more often than not it seems to be people on the political right who make comments such as 'damn those lefties/righties'. The 'righties' tag was just my way of labelling those who seem to rely on such categorisation to get their point across. I can't complain about pointless remarks in general when they come from all angles.

 

[frog12986]

The fact of the matter is, that John Howard may not win the election, but in all likelihood, the Labor Party will lose it. The primary problem for the Labor party at present is the compostion of caucus. In short, it is a collaboration of 'left-wing' academic/intellectuals who are out of touch with the founding principles of the Labor Party. The likes of Beazely, Gillard, Rudd, Smith..Just to name a few. Any members that do have links to the unions such as Macklin and Crean are merely overshadowed by the zealous nature of these academic careerists.

I thought John Howard summed it up perfectly :

"Above all, the nation needs at the helm a group of men and women who have strength, who have experience and have a clear view of what they believe in,"

The key phrase there, 'what they believe in'. The outer seats of Western Sydney as well as the Tasmanian seats exemplify how out of touch the Labor party is becomming with its traditonal constituency. They are more concerned about aligning themselves with Greens and environmentalists than standing up for their traditional beliefs and the concerns of their primary supporters. Labors problem is ideological and until this problem is recognised and reconciled their chances are greatly depleted....

The other stark fact is that there is a silent majority out there that voice their opinion every 3-4 years... and as much as the media and the like, rave and rant about any concerns of government that may arise, their comments and predictions are usually once again disproved by the actions of the silent majority at the polls... Moreover, as much as it does not seem due to the opinons of those on these forums... the Young Liberals are still the largest and most influential youth political movement in Australia without a doubt and leave the rest far far behind...obviously an indication of how political alignment is far different than portrayed on this forum...

And to all those who may question Howards health for his age, if anything, that healthy specimen Kim Beazely should be more concerned about sickness and death as in all likelihood as his arteries are probably more clogged than Sydney roads in peakhour...

Look at the state election first as well... if Bob Carr wins, then John Howard is home and hosed, no doubts, if's, or buts....if Carr doesn't win, then Howards majority will be reduced....

 

[Iron]

The genious of Howard is that he reeks of suburban mediocrity. So much so, that people find it hard to be truely annoyed by him. His indifference is infectious. Like Asqth said, this allows him to get away with lots of little terrors.
Beazley is such a capable, loveable personality. Probably the greatest lost leader of this sorry colonial outpost.
Australia: 'striving for mediocrity in a world of excellence'.

 

[Korn]

The genious of Howard is that he reeks of suburban mediocrity. So much so, that people find it hard to be truely annoyed by him. His indifference is infectious. Like Asqth said, this allows him to get away with lots of little terrors.
Beazley is such a capable, loveable personality. Probably the greatest lost leader of this sorry colonial outpost.
Australia: 'striving for mediocrity in a world of excellence'.

nice Chaser analogy

 

[Frigid]

i think we ought to start coining John Howard coins in the Australian Mint. maybe something like J. H. P[rimus]. M[inister]. P[erpetuus].

edit: you must spread some reputation before you give to 'squishy again. good post mate.

 

[Frigid]

I swear I laughed (sadly) when reading an Article by Daryl Williams, or next High Court Judge ...who seems to be utterly clueless. I cannot see how he keeps a straight face when he says stuff like 'Australia has the best human rights record in the world' ...he then goes on to talk about how powerful the parilament is in protection Human rights in the senate...(note senate majority)(note parliament makes decisions on political grounds not whether it infringes on rights re: terrorism laws, Border protection bill)

well what can i do... i'm just a little politically-apathetic law student who didn't protest on anti-VSU day (had midsemexam sorry)

looks like separation of powers my butt.

edit: funnily enough, etymologically, minister means 'servant, aide' in latin, as opposed to gubernator, which means 'governor, helmsman'. in australia, obviously these definitions are turned on their heads... i feel so sorry for the GG - in the Constitution he is so powerful (and until the mid-1800s he was basically autocratic)... yet nowadays, nobody knows who the GG is and if we replaced him with a rubber-stamping mannequin robot noone would realise..

 

[nick1048]

Doesn't he just love to be PM? I hope he will get vote out in the next election and Labor wins in flying colours.

Very highly doubt that... what revolutionary policy has he introduced??? Nothing, compared to Howard he's a pussy cat.

 

[Xayma]

Why is it that such pointless comments always seem to sprout forth from the board's 'righties'?


The following few months should be interesting, as it seems as though there will be a showdown of sorts between the conservative Liberals and the liberal Liberals sooner or later. So much for unity within the Coalition (perhaps).

My only true hope for the next half-Senate election is that the Coalition's majority is lost and that the Family First party doesn't hold the balance of power (the Family First 'threat' does tend to be overstated, I know). It would be good to see the Democrats return another Senator or two to the chamber, too.

Agreed on pretty much all.

With the senate majority, I feel that the wet and dry Liberals will be fighting it out a fair bit, with the Nationals I hope growing a bit more of a backbone.

I'm not happy about Howard going for a fifth term, Costello is alot more of a wet Liberal then Howard.

Democrats I would like to see rehold the balance of power, I felt they did a good job moderating.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

He is mister Middle of Australia. He doesnt stand for cultural aspiration. He stands for economic aspiration. He has bets both ways. He doesn't try to argue down racism like all the previous PM's. He believes in 'cultural supremacy' - the very term is misleading anyways. He invites very little passion from the average suburban person. He uses clever rhetoric.

Argue down racism? What does this mean exactly? What do you want him to do? make bold "Every race deserves to be treated equally" every week?

He cares not for anyone who does not vote for him. He used boat people and racial hatred to win him elections. He lied about boat people. He talks about jumping the Queue when in fact there is no queue of refugees to come to Australia. His ministers talk about abortions being 100 000 a year...again a lie...He encourages no sympathy for the position of refugees or for those who are new to this country.

Well of course he impliments policy which usually doesn't come into conflict with those who voted for him, that's what he as a politician should do. I'd like to know, would Latham if he had been elected (in your opinion) have implimented policies or "cared" about those nasty arse-licking liberal voters? In my opinion, what happened with the boat people was he started off honestly believing the story from the intelligence he was given. Then later on he was presented with conflicting evidence, however it was too far into the election campaign to come out saying it was a lie. Was it a lie? yes. Was it wrong? I don't particulary think so. I agree that we probably need a softer stance on immigration.

He said nothing of Pauline Hanson when she came out well knowing that she could be popular. He did not care that she was a racist. He adopted most of her policies and watered them down. He is a man that will do anything to win. He has very little principle and it is political expediency that rules John Howard.

... Very little principle The war in iraq, he faced extreme opposition, yet did what he felt was right. Personally I don't think the war in iraq was politically motivated (at least for John Howard).

As aformentioed he is extremely inoffensive. He is like a Toyota Camry. To the politicaly apathetic (the mums and dads out there aspiring to own a house that is much too big for them and own a 4WD to drop the kids off at school) and those who tend not to like anything that isnt god, queen, and country John Howard is their hero.

Oh the bastards!!!! How dare they aspire to own better things, enhance their life in a way that you disagree with!!!
Sure - You shouldn't get into so much debt that a .5% jump in interest rates means you're eating dog food, but come on Asquithian, are you telling me you aren't going to get into ridiculous ammounts of debt for your first house?

He has created a generation of those who are apathetic. Also a generation of kids who have not known any other government than the Howard government! I was only in year 6 when John Howard came to Power. We have a whole generation who does not remember anything but the Liberal party. As such the right wing agenda has gained acceptance. It is alarming that many of the supporters of the Liberal party and hence many Australians have no compassion for refugees, no awareness of the government plan to roll back government support abortions.. no awareness nor interest,just as long interest rates are low so they can maintain their half million dollar debt and 5000 dollar credit card...a government that aspires for nothing else in this nation but apathy from its citizens, economic reform and activly tries to stamp down on participatory democracy.

I'd disagree and say that alot of kids are very mad at the howard government, as popular culture is, and generally youngin`s like us follow pop culture before we control anything the government controls.
Economic Reform = Good.

As of now the Australian government does not make policy for 'all' of Australia. It makes policy for the apathetic majority and the ranting redneck who hates wogs/gooks/slanty eyes and aboriginals (Hanson: Should go back to where they came from?)(who have it so good) and wishes kids would solute god queen and country. It does nothing to actively do anything for those that majority decision making and john Howard mantra of ultiltarianism leave behind.

Who is being left behind by the Howard government?

This has little to do with the War in Iraq. I'm you will find that Australia would have gone regardless of political party (howeverI believe we would have been gung ho about it)...it has to do with this governments lack of recongition of many Australians are actually disadvantaged by this kind of government.

Yes, either party would of gone. I don't believe we were gung ho about it, making a few impassioned speeches is what you do when you're sending some young soldiers to war.

 

[Generator]

Just two things, NTB. Why would Howard be a politician in general policy terms yet a man of 'principle' when joining the US in Iraq? Political motivation does not have to be entirely domestic in nature. As for the 'aspiring' suburbs, well, I agree with Asquithian. There is nothing wrong with being aspirational, but when it is achieved at the expense of the wider society (escapism) and at a great personal cost (high household debt), then is it really worth the effort when there are other means of marking your social status and improving the lot of yourself and those around you?

 

[walrusbear]

He is mister Middle of Australia. He doesnt stand for cultural aspiration. He stands for economic aspiration. He has bets both ways. He doesn't try to argue down racism like all the previous PM's. He believes in 'cultural supremacy' - the very term is misleading anyways. He invites very little passion from the average suburban person. He uses clever rhetoric.

He cares not for anyone who does not vote for him. He used boat people and racial hatred to win him elections. He lied about boat people. He talks about jumping the Queue when in fact there is no queue of refugees to come to Australia. His ministers talk about abortions being 100 000 a year...again a lie...He encourages no sympathy for the position of refugees or for those who are new to this country.

He said nothing of Pauline Hanson when she came out well knowing that she could be popular. He did not care that she was a racist. He adopted most of her policies and watered them down. He is a man that will do anything to win. He has very little principle and it is political expediency that rules John Howard.

As aformentioed he is extremely inoffensive. He is like a Toyota Camry. To the politicaly apathetic (the mums and dads out there aspiring to own a house that is much too big for them and own a 4WD to drop the kids off at school) and those who tend not to like anything that isnt god, queen, and country John Howard is their hero.

He has created a generation of those who are apathetic. Also a generation of kids who have not known any other government than the Howard government! I was only in year 6 when John Howard came to Power. We have a whole generation who does not remember anything but the Liberal party. As such the right wing agenda has gained acceptance. It is alarming that many of the supporters of the Liberal party and hence many Australians have no compassion for refugees, no awareness of the government plan to roll back government support abortions.. no awareness nor interest,just as long interest rates are low so they can maintain their half million dollar debt and 5000 dollar credit card...a government that aspires for nothing else in this nation but apathy from its citizens, economic reform and activly tries to stamp down on participatory democracy.

As of now the Australian government does not make policy for 'all' of Australia. It makes policy for the apathetic majority and the ranting redneck who hates wogs/gooks/slanty eyes and aboriginals (Hanson: Should go back to where they came from?)(who have it so good) and wishes kids would solute god queen and country. It does nothing to actively do anything for those that majority decision making and john Howard mantra of ultiltarianism leave behind.

This has little to do with the War in Iraq. I'm you will find that Australia would have gone regardless of political party (howeverI believe we would have been gung ho about it)...it has to do with this governments lack of recongition of many Australians are actually disadvantaged by this kind of government.

It is even more shocking that this government achieves much of its policy changes through parliamentary reshuffling over christmas that actively aims to make decision making exclusive rather than inclusive.

tried to rep but said i needed to spread more around or something

anyway, very well put

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Just two things, NTB. Why would Howard be a politician in general policy terms yet a man of 'principle' when joining the US in Iraq? Political motivation does not have to be entirely domestic in nature. As for the 'aspiring' suburbs, well, I agree with Asquithian. There is nothing wrong with being aspirational, but when it is achieved at the expense of the wider society (escapism) and at a great personal cost (high household debt), then is it really worth the effort when there are other means of marking your social status and improving the lot of yourself and those around you?

Principles can come into politics, i don't believe it was as calculated a political decision as some make it out to be, i.e. "secure free trade agreement", I believe he was going to get the free trade agreement (which perhaps isn't that great an achievement) either way. True, and perhaps you're right, perhaps he had more of a global political motivation, but what I was essentially trying to say was that I don't believe he went into the Iraq war to get anything off any country, or to gain any praise from the voters.

There is nothing wrong with being aspirational, but when it is achieved at the expense of the wider society (escapism) and at a great personal cost (high household debt), then is it really worth the effort when there are other means of marking your social status and improving the lot of yourself and those around you?

I think this is a personal decision for people to make, I don't like the condemming of people because they're choosing to indulge themselves (of course they should be when they're spending money that they don't have/won't be able to pay back). Personally I care little for most material crap, clothes, etc etc But I would like to have a nice big comfy house when i'm older.

 

[leetom]

With luck, Costello will finally crack the nut and and launch a leadership challenge, hopefully fracturing the party beyond repair.

On that note, is the Liberal Party really as united as it appears? The Cabinet's women are certainly at odds with Abbot's IVF proposal, but are there any serious anti-Howard factions within the party that would be very displeased with Howard's determination to continue?

Wow, it appears Costello really has cracked the nut, at least according to this morning's papers.

 

[Rorix]

There is something inherantly wrong with people who seriously wish death or ill health on another human being. Some of you people are really fucked up. Go get some help.



If Howard was a bad prime minister, why has he been elected, democratically, for 4 terms? Oh, he must have cheated in those elections, y'know, these Labor folks trying to run a perfectly straight campeign, just trying to alert Australia to the possibility that for the third term running, they might get Costello's face on that scratchie, and the GST is going to be the death of small business, and a quote taken horribly out of context is a lie, and so on. Yeah.

I'm all for the right to vote, as long as people vote to agree with me!

 

[walrusbear]

There is something inherantly wrong with people who seriously wish death or ill health on another human being. Some of you people are really fucked up. Go get some help.



If Howard was a bad prime minister, why has he been elected, democratically, for 4 terms? Oh, he must have cheated in those elections, y'know, these Labor folks trying to run a perfectly straight campeign, just trying to alert Australia to the possibility that for the third term running, they might get Costello's face on that scratchie, and the GST is going to be the death of small business, and a quote taken horribly out of context is a lie, and so on. Yeah.

I'm all for the right to vote, as long as people vote to agree with me!

that's a silly assertion

 

[Xayma]

Hitler was elected by a popular vote.

Popular majority support does not mean that that person is immune from criticism nor that they were the greatest leader ever.

If parliament never made mistakes and the voice of the people was always correct there would be no needs for any checks or review on government power. Perhaps we would not ever need a judiciary.

If you count 37% as a popular vote.

Also numerous control issues within Germany lead to that. After that he gaoled a large amount of Communist deputies in order to pass an enabling act required with a 2/3 majority.

He couldn't have been such a monster in Australia as in order to change the constitution requires a refrendum as opposed to Hitler's Germany which only required a 2/3 majority and that still required scaring the parliament into submission.

 

[MuffinMan]

John Howard wouldnt retire until hes dead

 

[shady_03]

Doesn't he just love to be PM? I hope he will get vote out in the next election and Labor wins in flying colours.

Hopefully we can beat that furry little eyebrowed ass kisser!